My 2" Insulated CCVM Column Build

[Saltbush Bill]

I agree with Yummy about pushing a reflux still to hard, its not necessary . Running them right on the edge of flooding or in a semi flooded state seems to be an idea that has been pushed by a few people to begin with and then the idea has gathered traction from there.
Just the other day on another forum I saw a very experienced still builder and distiller make the comment below.

"I find the point when it is about to flood - and then run at 80% of that power input.
I have tried running right on the edge - at the maximum power level possible. I DID NOT ENJOY THE EXPERIENCE."

Running anything, be it a still, a motorcycle or any other bit of machinery/ equipment at 100% or right on the edge is just plain hard work and stressful.
This is a hobby , its supposed to be enjoyable. Any well built reflux still should easily pull Azeo at a reasonable speed without all of the stress of being run right on the edge.

[kimbodious]

Good observations and records, that will come in handy for learning and understanding running your reflux still.

It is not necessary to keep your column in equilibrium for 90 minutes, 45-60 minutes is usually long enough for the volatile compounds to stratify in the column.

It is a bit of a party trick to maintain a constant level of bubbling condensate in your sight glass, it may look cool but it isn’t necessary and it increases the risk of flooding.

Someone mentioned tuning your reflux still. That is determine the optimum amount of packing and optimum heating power level. Every column is different and you determine those optimum levels through experience, quite a few runs. Running with everything at optimum puts your column close to the situation with a constant level of fluid in the sightglass.

In my experience it is better to reduce the amount of packing slightly, possibly suffer a fraction of a percent decrease in purity but have a much more relaxing and enjoyable spirit run.

[Andrew_90]

Thanks fellers,

With a pot still on a spirit run I would run down to circa 15% ABV. The jars that don't make it into the final product would go into the feints jars.

With the reflux still, do we stop when / just before the tails are reached? I.e. we collect no more product and the we have a greatly reduced quantity of feints or do we continue gathering for the feints jars?

[Sporacle]

This is the fun bit, when you see the abv and the output drop indicating you are into tails, taste that last jar, it smells OK and then dilute it to 40 and give it a taste. Horrible, truly horrible, I have found the tails are super compressed and there is absolutely stuff all left in the boiler. I would stop after the first signs of tails show up. Apologies, may be a bit all over the shop, long lunch

[Yummyrum]

100% with Sporicle . Tails are vile and as soon as you detect them …. time to kill it .

[Sporacle]

My wife is my taste tester, CCVM tails jar "that smells interesting" immediately after that, "never make me taste that again"

[Yummyrum]

You cruel Bastard

[Andrew_90]

So I understand the smearing issue with a parrot, besides that, do you guys pop a parrot in line when anticipating the end of the hearts to see the dramatic shift or is it a smell thing?

[Andrew_90]

The Production line is going. Feels good to have migrated from construction to production.

The PC length / reach to the working surface was overcome with my Copper Long Drop and a bit of copper mesh packed in at the bottom to break the distillate velocity.

[Sporacle]

You will see it from the spout without a parrot, it's a definite thing, my RC position and power don't change once I'm past heads. Trust me it's a "oh that's tails" type of thing

[Setsumi]

Just my opinion, a parrot is a novel way to break an alcohol meter. As Sporacle says, you will taste tails.

Just an observance, if you are recirculating your coolant from that reservoir. It looks like 50 to 80lt. You will do better to upgrade it to 220lt at least. Myself the other day ran into a situation where i lost control of my RC on CCVM. Nothing dramatic but it did not respond as usual when i lowered it on a bigger than normal charge. Turned out my complete volume of cooling water was above 55 d C. It was quickly rectified by fresh water but if you are serious on saving water a bigger reservoir will help.

[Yummyrum]

So I understand the smearing issue with a parrot, besides that, do you guys pop a parrot in line when anticipating the end of the hearts to see the dramatic shift or is it a smell thing?

Every time , just before I set up the next jar , I have a taste . ( I’ll be honest , I don’t do it for the first few jars )
I have a glass of water that I dip a teaspoon into and then I stick it under the spout for a split second . Basically just a diluted taste .

As long as I am having a fairly diluted taste , I can tell where in the run I am and I can taste the tails before the meters show it .

And I don’t own a parrot. If I’m curious about the ABV , I just pour some out if the jar I just collected into a measuring cylinder and pop the alcmeter in it .

[still_stirrin]

… And I don’t own a parrot. If I’m curious about the ABV , I just pour some out if the jar I just collected into a measuring cylinder and pop the alcmeter in it …

Ditto.

The collected jar is already an average (integrated) proof from empty to full, so a single measurement represents whats in the jar.

A parrot reading would be a continuous “derivative” and only represent an instantaneous reading. The parrot, therefore becomes a useless tool unless you’re trying to monitor the progress through time.

But that can be like “watching paint dry” when you’re running a VM reflux column. If running properly, you won’t see any changes in the %ABV, just a reduction in the production rate as you near the end of your boiler charge.
ss

[Andrew_90]

Just my opinion, a parrot is a novel way to break an alcohol meter. As Sporacle says, you will taste tails.

Just an observance, if you are recirculating your coolant from that reservoir. It looks like 50 to 80lt. You will do better to upgrade it to 220lt at least. Myself the other day ran into a situation where i lost control of my RC on CCVM. Nothing dramatic but it did not respond as usual when i lowered it on a bigger than normal charge. Turned out my complete volume of cooling water was above 55 d C. It was quickly rectified by fresh water but if you are serious on saving water a bigger reservoir will help.

It is 50l and is fitted with a tap low down which is open and connected to the water supply. When it gets too hot I unplug from the water mains and allow it to drain to 1/3 and then plug into the water main and fill and repeat. This is the last time I will use cooling barrels, I was experimenting but the hassle is simply not worth it.

[Andrew_90]

The run is over, and have cleaned the still with fresh and got to wondering. Must you flush the packing from the top of the column with fresh water?

[kimbodious]

The run is over, and have cleaned the still with fresh and got to wondering. Must you flush the packing from the top of the column with fresh water?

It is a good idea to flush if you got tails in your packing.

[Yummyrum]

I never do , because I’m a lazy prick . The next time I fire it up , the refluxing during equalisation is enough to dissolve the tails oils and flush them back to the boiler .

[kimbodious]

So I understand the smearing issue with a parrot, besides that, do you guys pop a parrot in line when anticipating the end of the hearts to see the dramatic shift or is it a smell thing?

I don’t use a parrot. I swap out a jar and collect the stream in a measuring cylinder and measure in that. Simple and cheap.

I can smell when tails are close by.

[Andrew_90]

Thanks to all.

[kimbodious]

Keeping feints to rerun from a spirit run on a reflux column is a waste of effort. If you’ve operated your stripping run correctly there won’t be much from the feints that are salvageable.

Feints from pot still spirit runs are probably worth collecting.

[Sporacle]

To use a Aussie phrase, after the first hint of tails there is two fifths of ...... left in the boiler

[Andrew_90]

Keeping feints to rerun from a spirit run on a reflux column is a waste of effort. If you’ve operated your stripping run correctly there won’t be much from the feints that are salvageable.

Feints from pot still spirit runs are probably worth collecting.

I may have stopped my run a little early.

40l @ 28% ABV should give around 11l @ 100% or 10.5l at 95%. In only collected 7.7l and may have misconstrued the signs of the onset of the tails? I thought I cut the run at the onset of the tails.

After the 130ml of Fore's I took;
Fraction 1 to 16 x 325ml
17 to 24 x 300ml but fraction 24 I knocked leaving a mere 50ml so I cannot take a sample.

Fraction 2 = 96%
Fraction 23 = 95.6%

[kimbodious]

It does look like you cut the run short. If you haven’t already discarded what was left in the boiler, why not put everything back in to the boiler and re run it, practise makes perfect!

You won’t get 100% extraction in any reasonable timeframe

[shadylane]

What is my biggest clue that tell me I am about to enter the Tails?

On my still, the first sign of tails is the distillate suddenly begins tasting like cardboard macerated in alcohol.
Even a little bit of tails can pollute a good neutral.
So when getting close to the tails, Ya definitely want to be changing the jars often and not filling them up.

[Yummyrum]

If you haven’t dumped the boiler charge , just fire it back up and keep going .

For a first ever run , you need to keep collecting until you get distinctively vile tails , so next time you know exactly what to look out for and expect .

So if yiu haven’t dumped the dregs in the boiler , Kimbo’s suggestion to dump all you collected back and re run is a good idea for another practise run … if you have time .

Also agree with Shady that slightest hint if tails when collecting is a good time to start collecting less in more jars .

This is also the time when you might consider compressing tails . You’d lower the coil to increase RR . But its an economy thing . More water , more power , more time ….. for what ???? …. an extra 500 mls of Hmmm .

I used to now I don’t bother .

[Saltbush Bill]

the first sign of tails is the distillate suddenly begins tasting like cardboard macerated in alcohol.

Even a little bit of tails can pollute a good neutral.

be changing the jars often and not filling them up.

Some real good advice right there.

If you haven’t dumped the boiler charge , just fire it back up and keep going .

Totally agree......you need to keep going on this run and keep collecting in jars....keep running till there is no doubt that you are in tails.
Then keep them and smell them, till the odor of tails is firmly etched into your nostrils.
As a little experiment , and something to think about later....dip a finger into the very first jar that you took....rub it and another finger together very firmly.....note how it feels and sounds........then do the same on the last jar that you took on that same run...noses and taste buds ain't the only things that tell you stuff.

[shadylane]

I agree with Yummy about pushing a reflux still to hard, its not necessary . Running them right on the edge of flooding or in a semi flooded state seems to be an idea that has been pushed by a few people to begin with and then the idea has gathered traction from there.

I'm of the same mind.
Running a column in a semi flooded state might gain another theoretical plate worth of ABV increase.
I'd rather run the column based on neutral quality.
The flooding, frothing and bubbling can lead to entrainment.
In a column, Ya don't want liquid being blown upwards.

[Saltbush Bill]

Running a column in a semi flooded state might gain another theoretical plate worth of ABV increase.
I'd rather run the column based on neutral quality.

The flooding, frothing and bubbling can lead to entrainment.
In a column, Ya don't want liquid being blown upwards.

Couldn't agree more,

[Saltbush Bill]

In a column, Ya don't want liquid being blown upwards.

Had a Rum or two and came back to this ........argue the above fact if ya want folks.

[Andrew_90]

I lost a long post dammit.

I had already discarded the boiler charge so I am where I am.

So what constitutes flooding? If I have visible image of percolating of distillate a third of the way up the sight glass am I flooded.