Brass Taps

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Andrew_90
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Brass Taps

Post by Andrew_90 »

Having spent much time and attention to detail on my CCVM and have one small purchase to go before completion. A 1/4" compression fitting valve to control the flow of my CCVM.

Well, when I got the prices it brought on a bowl movement. To install anything else would be a compromise to a lot of work and the feel to the still.

Anyone got a competitive online source for these small compression fitting taps?
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Andrew_90
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Andrew_90 »

Coincidentally just found one on Amazon.
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Yummyrum
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Yummyrum »

I wouldn’t be too anal about flow control in your RC Andrew . It’s a CCVM . Its more about raising and lowering than flow control . Get a cheap valve . Ball park it , and use raising an lowering as you should . :thumbup:

Sure , if you had a CM head , you might seriously consider a better quality needle valve …… but you have a CCVM , its all about position , flow rate control is secondary .
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Sporacle »

+1 with Yummy, get something cheap and hide it away from the still (if it makes you a happy :D )
I have used a simple plastic 1/4 turn ball valve on the inlet side of my garden hose. As Yummy said ballpark the flow then use the adjustment in the up down of the reflux. From my limited experience if you adjust the flow, then the height, then the flow, then chase the height....... it's simpler to set the flow and adjust the height :thumbup:
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Andrew_90
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Andrew_90 »

Anal, yup that's me. I pulled the trigger on one.

I like function but I also like form. So theme of the entire still would look better with a brass tap. Hyper anal I admit, but that's me.

Can anyone point me to a resource on how to run a CCVM. I have read a bunch of stuff but there are missing pieces I believe. I have the gist of it.

As a first timer for example it would be nice to set the RC control valve to a known temperature and then to leave it and not worry anymore.
How do it "sense" the correct position for the RC after the column is stable and ready to start delivering product?
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Yummyrum
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Yummyrum »

Andrew_90 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:44 am Anal, yup that's me. I pulled the trigger on one.

I like function but I also like form. So theme of the entire still would look better with a brass tap. Hyper anal I admit, but that's me.
Hee Hee , I get that , have been charged as guilty before :oops: :ebiggrin:
Andrew_90 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:44 am How do it "sense" the correct position for the RC after the column is stable and ready to start delivering product?
Just like a VM , crack it open a bit and see what comes out … or in your case , lift it up a bit and see what comes out.

Flow rate though it will be just like a VM , or LM for that matter . When its in full reflux , with the maximum power you intend to run before it floods , you want the RC to knock down without vapour escaping out the top . Now crank it up a bit more and you are good to go .

Just like a VM or an LM you don’t want an excessive torrent flowing through it or there is the risk that you can over cool the top of the still and its packing and then efficiency drops . … a bit .

As I mentioned before , ball park your flowrate and you will be good to go .

Did I mention a nicely polished Brass valve is a pleasure to the eye :ewink:
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by kimbodious »

Here ya go, I made some notes for a friend recently on how I run my CCVM, hope it can be helpful

Running my CCVM - used only for spirit runs

Usually 40 litres of low wines, around 35% ABV plus 5 litres water

Equipment list
50 litre SS beer keg boiler with 220VAC element and thermal layer insulation
Power controller with SPDT switch, SSVR controller and digital meter
Packed column - 48” x 2” SS spool packed with SS potscrubbers,insulated with a polarfleece sleeve
Sightglass tee - 2” SS tee with SD sightglass kit
Offtake tee - 2” SS tee
Reflux Condenser Housing - 12” x 2” spool
Reflux Condenser - 6’ of 1/2” OD corrugated stainless steel tubing (gas heater hose) twisted into a spiral
Offtake Elbow - 2” SS elbow
Product Condenser - 20” by 2” SD shotgun condenser
Product Outlet - 2” endcap with 1” ferrule and 24” 3/4” copper pipe
Collection Jars - 22 x sequentially labelled Moccona Coffee jars (200g) with lids and graduations marked for 300ml 600ml and 1000ml

Cooling is via a recirculating system using 3/4” hoses from a sump pump in an inground swimming pool. The condensers are plumbed in series, inputs to PC which then outputs to RC.

Operation.
Pour low wines and water in the boiler
Place insulation around boiler
Connect power controller to the boiler
Turn on power to the boiler
Set power level to part way, roughly 1400 Watts at 240VAC

.... while it is heating up - usually takes about 1.75 hours
Assembling the still
I assemble still taking care to remember to put insulating sleeve on column section.
Put RC in lowest position
Connect up cooling plumbing between condensers and the sump pump.
Turn on sump pump
... while waiting for the heating up
I lay out the collection jars in label order.
... I am listening for change from heating up sound to the quieter boiling sounds

Reaching total reflux
When the heating up sounds diminish I start watching the sightglass, if I’m lucky I’ll see the glass momentarily fog as the first bit of vapour condenses on the cool surface. I am ready to reduce the power level if I notice there is a rising level of condensate building up in the sightglass. I usually end up with the power level at this stage at down around 400 Watts! The RC is in the lowest position and the column is now in total reflux (equilibrium) requiring very little vapour flow (controlled by power controller) to keep the system in this state.

End of total reflux ... some time later
There is a point when I notice things change i.e. odours, boiler sounds and the amount of condensate visible in the sightglass, I use this as the prompt to start drawing off fores.

Drawing off the Foreshots
I raise the RC about 3/4 of an inch.
I increase the power level to around 1250 watts or until I am getting 2 drops per second of fores.
I collect 100-150 mls fores.... about 30 minutes

Drawing off the Heads
I raise the RC about another 1” to start collecting heads at a faltering stream
I collect heads in 300 ml samples.
When I have collected 4 x 300 ml samples of heads I raise the RC to the upper position... about one and a half hours

Drawing off the Hearts
I increase the power level to roughly 1400 Watts or the level required to maintain a steady stream of output (roughly 1.2 litres per hour)
I collect in 300 ml samples until I am sure I am getting hearts (usually by sample #6) then I start collecting hearts I collect in 600 or even 1000 ml sample
..... swapping jars for the next 12 hours, product is a temperature corrected 95% ABV

I can speed things up a little by turning the power up to say 1600 watts and achieve maybe 1.5 litres per hour output but the column is then on the verge of flooding

At some point I’ll start to hear the boiler heating sounds get louder and smell the odd whiff of tails, so faint I think I am imagining it. Nonetheless I switch back to collecting 300 ml samples.

Usually before I am on to the second 300 ml sample the rate of output drops slightly. That is a good enough signal to shut down the run.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Andrew_90 »

kimbodious wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 3:55 am
Collection Jars - 22 x sequentially labelled Moccona Coffee jars (200g) with lids and graduations marked for 300ml 600ml and 1000ml
How do you get your markings to stay on the bottles?
Reaching total reflux
The RC is in the lowest position and the column is now in total reflux (equilibrium) requiring very little vapour flow (controlled by power controller) to keep the system in this state.
Where is the bottom of your reflux coil compared the bottom of the horizontal part of the T Piece?
Drawing off the Foreshots
I raise the RC about 3/4 of an inch.
I increase the power level to around 1250 watts or until I am getting 2 drops per second of fores.
I collect 100-150 mls fores.... about 30 minutes

Drawing off the Heads
I raise the RC about another 1” to start collecting heads at a faltering stream
I collect heads in 300 ml samples.
When I have collected 4 x 300 ml samples of heads I raise the RC to the upper position... about one and a half hours

Drawing off the Hearts
I increase the power level to roughly 1400 Watts or the level required to maintain a steady stream of output (roughly 1.2 litres per hour)
I collect in 300 ml samples until I am sure I am getting hearts (usually by sample #6) then I start collecting hearts I collect in 600 or even 1000 ml sample
..... swapping jars for the next 12 hours, product is a temperature corrected 95% ABV
This is where I get confused.

Thanks for sharing.

So I strip in my pot still and take off the fores. Is it better to strip and take the fores during the spirit run on the CCVM?

I never realised that one still takes fractions with the CCVM.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by tiramisu »

Andrew_90 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:54 am I never realised that one still takes fractions with the CCVM.
It will depend on how much reflux you are doing.
If you are running a large number of effective plates/copper/marbles etc you may be pulling off 90%+ and one and done with your vodka.

If you don't have a really efficient column ( and most folk don't ) then you will want to separate your hearts from your heads/tails for your vodka too.

OR

If you are running less effective plates you may be taking off at 60 or 70% and going for "triple distilled" with lots of flavor coming over. With your whiskeys, you will want to take your cuts.

It depends on what you are trying to make....

Can't go wrong if you always take cuts.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by kimbodious »

@Andrew_90

I use a paint pen to mark rough indications on the outside of the jars, of where 300ml, 600ml and 1000ml would go up to, far from accurate.

My reflux condenser “coil” is actually doubled over twisted 3/8” corrugate stainless steel tube, it extends about 3” below the lowest edge of the offtake in full reflux position.

Yes I collect in small samples throughout a neutral spirit run on the CCVM. If there is an issue somewhere along the run I only stand to lose one or two samples before I get to identify and rectify the issue.

Most common issue I have had is when low purity condensate floods out via the offtake. When that happens you get increased output but with decreased purity and off odours and flavours, even a little bit would taint your product. Likewise with the sharp transition to tails that you get from a CCVM, miss that and your whole batch could be ruined.

I thoroughly recommend that beginners collect their output from spirit runs in small samples.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by kimbodious »

Hey if Andrew_90 or mods want to set up a new thread eg. Operating a CCVM, then I am happy for my posts to go there instead.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by kimbodious »

@Andrew_90 oops sorry I missed this question
> “ Is it better to strip and take the fores during the spirit run on the CCVM?”

I discard about 150 mls fores on strips AND also discard 150 mls fores from the spirit run. The strip is at full power so some of the fores are likely to be smeared through the rest of the product. The spirit run the way I do it has a very gentle heat up to get the best separation of fores that I can get. In saying that I still can’t separate every little bit of fores. I have noticed that if I restart a spirit run that there will always be a tiny initial amount of fores even if I was in hearts before when I halted the run. This is why I recommend that people collect a separate small sample initially after restarting a spirit run.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Sporacle »

That threads a good idea Kimbo
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Yummyrum »

Andrew_90 wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:54 am Is it better to strip and take the fores during the spirit run on the CCVM?

I never realised that one still takes fractions with the CCVM.
I think so Andrew . Whether its a VM ,LM ,CM or CCVM , when its on a tall packed column it will fractionate . The foreshots will make their way to the top of the column and be the first fraction to come out when you open the valve ( raise the RC) .
Followed by the heads , hearts and tails .
kimbodious wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 12:55 pm Likewise with the sharp transition to tails that you get from a CCVM, miss that and your whole batch could be ruined.
Absolutely , always collect in jars , that last one with tails will otherwise destroy a days work if you miss it .
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Demy
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Demy »

https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/_9fccez I have one of these and they are very good

Any method uses and any column you use is recommended to collect the product in small fractions, control it and then join the rest, as yummy said.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Andrew_90 »

I currently collect in 375ml jars and fill to around 350ml.

So I took my foreshots on the stripping run and will retake them on the spirit rum. I have not gone through all this construction effort to get premium product on to compromise this for a couple 100ml.

A CCVM operation thread would be great, especially if at the end it can result in a "How to run a CCVM" sticky for all to reference.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Yummyrum »

Andrew_90 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:25 am So I took my foreshots on the stripping run and will retake them on the spirit rum.
If you run a Pot still or even a plated still with a few plates , it might be beneficial to take a foreshot cut on a stripping run … but a packed column will be so efficient at compressing foreshots ( and other fractions ) that it makes a cut on a strip a pointless exercise . .
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Andrew_90 »

My column will be packed. I did not quite see the sense of taking it twice.

Are you implying that with a packed column that the cuts are more defined than with a pot still?
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Demy »

Andrew_90 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:25 am I currently collect in 375ml jars and fill to around 350ml.

So I took my foreshots on the stripping run and will retake them on the spirit rum. I have not gone through all this construction effort to get premium product on to compromise this for a couple 100ml.

A CCVM operation thread would be great, especially if at the end it can result in a "How to run a CCVM" sticky for all to reference.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5107 This is a great guide for neutral, there are many personal variables we can do but it is a great point.CCVM is exactly like VM with valve but this you know for sure, just play a bit with your refrigeration coil to experience, it's very easy.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Andrew_90 »

Nice link thanks.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Yummyrum »

Andrew_90 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:14 am Are you implying that with a packed column that the cuts are more defined than with a pot still?
100%
It is soooo obvious that a newbie with poor sense of taste and smell will have no problems picking the cuts . Especially the tails jar :ewink: …. Wait ‘til you taste that one , you’ll see what I mean.


A packed column reflux still does a fantastic job of separating and compressing the various fractions in the boiler . It sequentially exits these .
it’s still your job to make sure you collect it all in seperate jars so you can select which jars you want.

Once you have done the same run a few times you will go “ oh yeah , I’m into hearts now and will collect about 5 good Liters “ then you can switch back to small jars and get ready for the tails jar .
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Andrew_90 »

Back to the taps.

I think I made a bad choice. I ordered a 1/4" needle valve to control the output of my RC. I don't think the hole is large enough for the correct flow, I should have ordered a ball valve?
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Saltbush Bill »

I doubt you'd need a needle valve on a CCVM.....they are really only required on plated columns.
Moving the reflux coil up or down on a CCVM does the same thing that precise water flow adjustment does on a plater.
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Re: Brass Taps

Post by Setsumi »

I agree with SBB, a (needle) valve on CCVM is not necessary. In fact it may run you into trouble.

A cooling management reflux head or CM head needs fine control because the reflux control facilitate product take off, regardless if on a plater or packed column.

Myself run flutes/platers with CCVM heads. (The reflux head does not define the still type it only describe how reflux is managed). On CCVM the height of the reflux coil regulates the take off. But you can run into trouble.. if your water temprature in the reflux head gets too warm you will lose control of your reflux management. This will happen towards the end of the run on the tails end and your ability to slow the take off by dropping the coil to milk the last good product will suffer.

At that time you will need to control another variable, lose the valve.
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