Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

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Hillbilly Popstar
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Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

Read a million threads. I also used to be a journeyman HVAC installer and I can sweat copper to copper blindfolded. No problem!

This stainless is whooping my tail. I'm pretty discouraged here.

I got Harris Stay Clean flux and 15% silver lead free brazing rods.

I am cleaning the shit out of the copper and stainless and scuffing the surfaces of both pieces with Emory cloth. I am making sure to not touch the surface with my fingers and I am using ample flux. I got one flange soldered on to the copper, but it aint pretty and it has a painfully slow leak. I can fill the 2" pipe with water and it'll drop about 1/16" after several minutes.

Ffs...
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by NormandieStill »

You may be getting it too hot and burning the flux. Stainless doesn't distribute it's heat as well as copper does, so once you get close you can hit the right temp really quickly with not a lot of heat. Some kind of stick, or heat-proof brush to allow you to add flux once hot is useful as well.

I found that gently pre-heating the surfaces before adding flux helped it to stay where I wanted. Otherwise the liquid flux had a tendency to trickle away (There's a lot of round edges on a keg!)
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by juana_b »

That's a brazing alloy you have, and soldering flux. The brazing rod's working temp is much higher than the flux you have. They don't work well together. I think that flux will work with a 8% lead free solder. When I get home I'll check what flavors I've been using.
Also, any steel is very easy to overheat. If overheated, it will need to cool, be cleaned again and start over.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

NormandieStill wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:52 pm You may be getting it too hot and burning the flux. Stainless doesn't distribute it's heat as well as copper does, so once you get close you can hit the right temp really quickly with not a lot of heat. Some kind of stick, or heat-proof brush to allow you to add flux once hot is useful as well.

I found that gently pre-heating the surfaces before adding flux helped it to stay where I wanted. Otherwise the liquid flux had a tendency to trickle away (There's a lot of round edges on a keg!)
I am 100% burning the flux. I actually never used flux when brazing copper when I was doing HVAC. But from all my reading on this forum I got the impression that the flux is actually more important than solder/brazing choice.

I gotta get the metal hot enough to melt the brazing rods.

Should I go get soft solder?
Last edited by Hillbilly Popstar on Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

juana_b wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 12:58 pm That's a brazing alloy you have, and soldering flux. The brazing rod's working temp is much higher than the flux you have. They don't work well together. I think that flux will work with a 8% lead free solder. When I get home I'll check what flavors I've been using.
Also, any steel is very easy to overheat. If overheated, it will need to cool, be cleaned again and start over.
Well the one coupling I have soldered isn't coming apart. Not with the Mapp torch I got.

I'll either have to live with it, or toss it out and get a new one.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by juana_b »

I've brazed black steel to copper using 56% rod, but don't think stainless will braze well at all. TIG or solder that puppy.
Brazing bonds with the metals, soldering fills the gap. MAPP is great for soldering, but not so good at brazing anything over 7/8".
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Windy City »

As stated you are using brazing rod and soldering flux
Try this solder with your Stay-Clean flux and life will be much easier
https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/ ... ite-8.aspx

Hope this helps
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by acfixer69 »

That rod is no good for stainless steel check the link that windy gave you. Open and download the filler metal selection chart.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by juana_b »

Windy has the same stuff I use, the stay brite 8%
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Twisted Brick »

Windy City wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:42 pm As stated you are using brazing rod and soldering flux
Try this solder with your Stay-Clean flux and life will be much easier
https://www.harrisproductsgroup.com/en/ ... ite-8.aspx

Hope this helps
+1

On all my builds I have used the Stay-Brite 8, which has 6% silver. Flows beautifully. It is different from the 'plain' Stay-Brite (4% silver). Both will work, but expect to pay a bit more for the Stay-Brite 8. You can get it in 3/32" (great tip from Corene) but it has to be special ordered and is a little harder to find. Otherwise just get the 1/8" stuff.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by acfixer69 »

juana_b wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:59 pm Windy has the same stuff I use, the stay brite 8%
That is for soldering and needs the liquid stay clean flux.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

Ok, I'm off to get some silver "SOLDER" today.

Thank you for pointing out my fallacy. Appreciate the help.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

acfixer69 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:03 pm
juana_b wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:59 pm Windy has the same stuff I use, the stay brite 8%
That is for soldering and needs the liquid stay clean flux.
Will the Harris Stay-Clean flux I have not work?
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by juana_b »

I had no issues with paste flux, but I've held a torch for over 20 yrs. Liquid flux would definitely be easier.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Windy City »

The stay clean flux you have will work
I have both but always end up using paste just out of habit
Putting copper pipe together is my living (plumber) :) :D
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by acfixer69 »

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:04 pm
acfixer69 wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:03 pm
juana_b wrote: Tue Jan 18, 2022 1:59 pm Windy has the same stuff I use, the stay brite 8%
That is for soldering and needs the liquid stay clean flux.
Will the Harris Stay-Clean flux I have not work?
I don't think it will check the link that windy gave and metal filler down load it has all choices. I have all ways used the liquid with SS. Copper to copper no problem.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by AlWorms »

The liquid flux is WAY easier. I ran out, and have been using the paste, but you have to get the stainless up to temp, quickly apply the flux and the solder the joint before the flux burns. You have to carefully play the flame to keep the temperature close to ideal to avoid the burning. Once the flux has burnt, it repels the solder.

The paste flux has a petroleum jelly base that causes the burning. the liquid doesn't burn unless it far too hot.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Yummyrum »

Agree , paste is shite , liquid is the go . So much easier to apply, re-apply when needed and helpful in chasing solder where its needed . Get yourself a Hog bristle ( not plastic) brush to paint that liquid flux on . You can use that brush to paint on more when needed . You can use that brush and flux to run that solder around the joint . …. Can’t do that with paste .

Also , paste requires a lot of bollocks to clean out residue .
Liquid is basically gone with a rinse of water . :thumbup:

Why do you think we always recommend vinegar runs wnd sac Runs ? …. It’s to get rid of fluxes .

Liquid flux washes away with water and a wipe with a cloth .
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by higgins »

I've done a lot of DIY plumbing and am pretty good at soldering copper with a MAPP torch. When I learned that you can solder SS to copper I decided to try it with what I had on hand, which was standard plumbing solder (lead-free) and paste flux. I had no problem at all soldering 2" SS TC ferrules to 2" copper pipe, nor did I have any problem soldering an SS TC ferrule to an SS kettle lid.

BUT ... the kettle lid is quite flexible and after a few uses it developed a crack at the solder joint. So I cleaned it all off, prepped the surfaces, and tried again, 3 times. I couldn't get it to work at all.

The difference? I had run out of flux. I typically buy WATER-BASED paste flux, but the store was out so I bought PETROLEUM-BASED flux. After getting a new can of water-based flux I tried again, and it worked great.

Standard plumbing solder may not be as strong as solder with a bit of silver, but using what I had on hand worked fine for me. And the water based flux washes off pretty well.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

$102 later... :shock: :shock: :shock:

I think I am in business now.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Twisted Brick »

You don't have any of the Stay-Clean flux left? Would be interesting to hear how the TEC flux works.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

Twisted Brick wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:34 am You don't have any of the Stay-Clean flux left? Would be interesting to hear how the TEC flux works.
Yeah, I do.

It's the paste stuff though, it burns pretty easy.

I'll try both and report back.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by TwoSheds »

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:49 am $102 later... :shock: :shock: :shock:

I think I am in business now.
20220119_114707.jpg
I just bought the same combo (but the Harris liquid flux) and felt the same way... I had a local welder MIG weld two ports on for $80, but I have to do it myself!

They ain't giving that silver solder away!
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

TwoSheds wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:41 am
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 9:49 am $102 later... :shock: :shock: :shock:

I think I am in business now.
20220119_114707.jpg
I just bought the same combo (but the Harris liquid flux) and felt the same way... I had a local welder MIG weld two ports on for $80, but I have to do it myself!

They ain't giving that silver solder away!
The man told me the price and I put my hands on the counter and said, I need a minute to process this. :wtf:
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Twisted Brick »

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:50 am
The man told me the price and I put my hands on the counter and said, I need a minute to process this. :wtf:
This type of shock is starting to seep into seemingly everything these days. If it makes you feel any better, the first time I bought a lb of Stay-Brite 8 it cost $60 and the 16oz Stay-Clean flux was $7. The second lb cost $75 and the flux was $9. Give it six months and the price you paid will feel like you got a deal. FWIW, your solder is a quality product that does a great job for our purposes.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

Twisted Brick wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:24 pm
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:50 am
The man told me the price and I put my hands on the counter and said, I need a minute to process this. :wtf:
This type of shock is starting to seep into seemingly everything these days. If it makes you feel any better, the first time I bought a lb of Stay-Brite 8 it cost $60 and the 16oz Stay-Clean flux was $7. The second lb cost $75 and the flux was $9. Give it six months and the price you paid will feel like you got a deal. FWIW, your solder is a quality product that does a great job for our purposes.
I just don't want my wife to know exactly how much this thumper upgrade is actually costing.

At least, not until she's knee deep into a few glasses of this rum I am about to make....
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Ben »

TwoSheds wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:41 am

I just bought the same combo (but the Harris liquid flux) and felt the same way... I had a local welder MIG weld two ports on for $80, but I have to do it myself!

They ain't giving that silver solder away!
Holy hell, I charge $20 a fitting to TIG, guess I need to pull the heart out of the business and focus on my wallet.
:)
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by TwoSheds »

Ben wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 10:16 am
TwoSheds wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:41 am

I just bought the same combo (but the Harris liquid flux) and felt the same way... I had a local welder MIG weld two ports on for $80, but I have to do it myself!

They ain't giving that silver solder away!
Holy hell, I charge $20 a fitting to TIG, guess I need to pull the heart out of the business and focus on my wallet.
I don't think this guy is getting rich. He charges $80/hour pretty much inclusive and has an hour minimum. Suspect I'd have paid the same for 4 ports or maybe more. The other place quoted me $175!!! But they are a serious fab shop with all the sanitary welding certs and everything. They didn't really want to waste their time on me.
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:31 pm
Twisted Brick wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 1:24 pm
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:50 am
The man told me the price and I put my hands on the counter and said, I need a minute to process this. :wtf:
This type of shock is starting to seep into seemingly everything these days. If it makes you feel any better, the first time I bought a lb of Stay-Brite 8 it cost $60 and the 16oz Stay-Clean flux was $7. The second lb cost $75 and the flux was $9. Give it six months and the price you paid will feel like you got a deal. FWIW, your solder is a quality product that does a great job for our purposes.
I just don't want my wife to know exactly how much this thumper upgrade is actually costing.

At least, not until she's knee deep into a few glasses of this rum I am about to make....
But with that # of solder you can make quite a few thumpers so it's an investment lol..

Cheers,
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Re: Soldering stainless is kicking my a$$....

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

I appreciate all the tips fellas.

I got her all soldered up.

Probably have $20 worth of silver solder on my shed floor. :lol:

Brazing and soldering are definitely different skill sets. I took the crash course and IMO graduated with at least C+.

Cheers!
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