Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

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Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby Single Malt Yinzer » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:09 am

As distillers we haven't built up a list of flavors and aromas and where they come from in our spirits. Until we do this guide can at least help guide us to find their sources. And if you like/dislike them you can learn how to adjust to enhance/reduce them. The warning here is that things that positively/negatively affect beer may not come over into the distillate or they may be opposite to what they were in beer.

http://www.carolinabrewmasters.com/PDF/ ... _Guide.pdf

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Example Entry:

Grainy
Detected in: Aroma, flavor
Described As: Cereal husks, Fresh wheat or barley, Grainy, Grapenuts, “green,” “green malt,” “harsh,” husky, nutty, raw grain flavor
Typical Origins: Process/equipment faults, Malt.
Typical Concentrations in Beer: <1-20 μ g/l
Perception Threshold: 10 μ g/l
BeerFlavor Wheel Number: 0310
Discussion: Caused by compounds such asisobutyraldehyde which are naturally found in grain husks. As with Polyphenols (see Cloudiness and Phenols) these compounds are extracted from husks due to over-crushing, oversparging, sparging with hot or alkaline water,or excessively long mashes. Higher levels of isobutyraldehyde are found in freshly-made malt which hasn’t had sufficient time to rest (2-8weeks).
To Avoid: *Allow freshly-made malt to rest for sufficient time.* Don’t overcrush grains.* Proper mashing and sparging technique. Keep wort and sparge pH in 5.2-5.6 range. Don’t collect wort below 1.008 S.G.* Keep mash-out temperature at ~168°F or less.* Don’t mash for more than 2 hours.* Don’t expose steeping grains or grain particles to temperatures above ~168 °F. *Don’t boil grains or grain husks.
When Are Grainy Notes Appropriate?: Grainy notes at low levels are acceptable in malt-oriented lagers, especially light-colored lagers. They are inappropriate in ales.
Last edited by Single Malt Yinzer on Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby kiwi Bruce » Wed Dec 27, 2017 4:15 pm

This is a different direction for us...eg. kettle caramelization...how much of that flavor would come over in a single malt run ? Sound great, but is there an example of a commercial scotch that has this ? IF the distilling trade already has this list, then they are very tight fisted about it. If they haven't, they'll be the first to grab it from HD and run with it...I think this is a very important list to compile. Again good work, and your right...what may be a fault in brewing could be a blessing to the distiller. :thumbup:
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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby Single Malt Yinzer » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:25 pm

I assume that the big guys (Diageo, etc) have books full of this stuff. The homebrew guys have had years to compile that list. That's the type of thing we need to do somehow. Not really sure how to start that.
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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby Oldvine Zin » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:10 pm

Single Malt Yinzer wrote:I assume that the big guys (Diageo, etc) have books full of this stuff. The homebrew guys have had years to compile that list. That's the type of thing we need to do somehow. Not really sure how to start that.

Lots of great info in that pdf, but def geared towards beer consumption. Maybe we can start a wiki that addresses how ferment aromas affects final product?

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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby Single Malt Yinzer » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:08 pm

Yeah - that's an idea. I'm still finishing my wife's storefront, once I get done with that maybe I can start something.
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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby jb-texshine » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:00 pm

Strange,I get a grapenut cereal flavor from bakers yeast in my uj fermented at 83-85°f.
I assumed it was an ester from the bakers. I like it. Cool link,thanks.
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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby aircarbonarc » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:41 pm

Ok see what i can find out, I've just met a few great interesting people. I have a good friend who's a head distiller at a decent sized brewery/distillery, and I've met a few of his coworkers and they have a lab that figures out what makes what flavor!! And more!! I have met a few of his coworkers and they are all great people so I convince them to give up some literature
Rum!
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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby kiwi Bruce » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:26 pm

VERY GOOD AIRCARB ! That could be a great resource !
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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby Single Malt Yinzer » Thu Jan 11, 2018 6:01 pm

That would be awesome. Anything we can get would be really helpful.

We as distillers need to start building up our "Sensory" skills and how we describe flavors to each other. The difficulty in this is that every person's palate is different. About 25% of people can't taste diacetyl. Things like that make it even more difficult.

Here's a start down that road:
https://beersensoryscience.wordpress.co ... profiling/
https://beersensoryscience.wordpress.co ... g-part-ii/
https://beersensoryscience.wordpress.co ... ng-pt-iii/

And the beer flavor wheel:
http://www.pencilandspoon.com/2013/01/a ... wheel.html

And I will be the first to admit that my palate isn't very good. I'm just slightly better than "Good" and "Not Good". It's something I need to work on.
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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby Single Malt Yinzer » Wed Jan 24, 2018 8:33 am

Here's an example of industry work related to this. Not a very thorough list but a start.
http://alcbevtesting.com/wp-content/upl ... edding.pdf

I did glean this one curious bit of info from it:
Total esters (of which eth. acetate is the most common) quite high in Am whiskies (970 ppm.), Irish whiskies (808 ppm.), French Brandy (630-980 ppm.), Heavy rum (1584-2700 ppm.) and Jamaican rums (1732) ppm.
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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby DeepSouth » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:44 am

There's already lots of flavor wheels and guides that have positive and negative aromas and flavors associated with spirits, the underlying chemical compound responsible, and where in the process it comes from. I'm including a link to an image below, it's too large to upload directly here.

http://17pvpo1atgwq2icomn3sti3r-wpengin ... Wheel1.jpg
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Re: Flavors and their sources: Beer Fault Guide

Postby Single Malt Yinzer » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:39 pm

Thanks, that is a very useful one.
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