Ask Devin Mills of "Distilling Craft" podcast questions

[Single Malt Yinzer]

I am talking to Devin Mills of the "Distilling Craft" podcast. He's open to taking questions, Think of it as "Ask me Anything". Post up questions and I will relay them to him for answers. As an FYI he's the founder of Rado Distilling and is now with Dalkita Architects that specializes in Distillery design.

Ask away!

[CatCrap]

Holy shit that is awesome!!

I will have to come up with some questions, i only have a couple for right now.

I've listened to every episode of his craft distilling podcast and loved it. The most important thing i have for right now is to say THANK YOU Devin!! Your podcast is outstanding, i love the amount of depth you go into, and your knowledge on distilling allows for the interview portion to be an intelligent, informed discussion.
Not to rant to much, and this is related to the topic, I've tried listening to this other podcast, called Heads+Tails, and the two guys who host it admit immediately that they know nothing about distilling. I felt so bad for the first guest they had on, a craft distiller, who basically had to answer their terrible questions (So you just ferment at 90-100 degrees and it doesn't matter what you get you just throw it in the still right?) and give them an education on the absolute basics of distillation. Idiots even tried to claim the heads/methanol is what causes blindness, when the true story is that blindness was caused by unscrupulous people adding adulterants to their booze to boost profits or effect. This created a myth that we all battle to this day, that home made booze is somehow different from professionally distilled booze because it could make you go blind. Back to the podcast, What a waste of this Pro Distiller's time I find it super disrespectful that they hadn't done any research on distillation... BEFORE starting a fucking distilling podcast. I'll likely never listen to it again they irritated me so much with that. So, again, i appreciate Devin's knowledgeability, and the fact that makes the podcast such good listening and so successful. He asks really great questions, which makes the interviews really fascinating. He allows the distiller to explain what sets them apart, their history and background, their products but ALSO always ties it into the theme of the episode. But, i digress...

Devin, in your episode, An Apple a Day, you state that the biggest dilemma faced by the distiller in making an apple brandy is in determining the heads cut. You state that you can either decide to leave more heads and methanol in, but more flavor, or leave more heads out, and leave more methanol out. I have never heard you use the term "Foreshots" in any episode. Of course on HD and the homedistiling community, we consider there to be 4 Fractions. Foreshots, Heads, Hearts, and Tails. Is this the same case in professional distilling, or are Heads and Foreshots considered one in the same? To my understanding, we(homedistillers) always exclude the first very small fraction from a distillation, or, more specifically, we discard the "Foreshots" ALWAYS in a spirit run, and sometimes(seems to be a matter of preference varied from person to person) in a stripping run(or discard a small amount in the stripping runs, and a small amount in the spirit run VS only discard a slightly larger amount in the spirit run). Then, after foreshots is our Heads cut. Isn't, in theory, most of the methanol included in the foreshots and therefore discarded. So,the heads cut would be more about ethyl acetate/acetone/ nail polish remover smell, and other unpleasant smells/tastes, and not really as much about excluding methanol specifically. Devin i think i understand the concept you're getting at, that much of the good apple flavors will be in the heads, and it's up to the distiller to determine how much apple flavor is worth how much of the unpleasant flavors in heads. Also, from my understanding heads tend to contain the alcohols/congeners that cause hangovers. So, can you expand on this subject a little? (Devin i know you'll appreciate any opportunity to talk more about apple brandy! )

To expand on this a little further.. Distillation does not Create any chemical components. It only concentrates them(whatever is in the wash) and pushes them through vapor in a specific order based on temperature, allowing the distillate collected to have concentrations of these chemical components in varying degrees throughout the distillation. Knowing which components come out at which point (the basis for fractions and cuts) allows us to understand what to expect from each distillation, and gives us an idea of how we should expect to make our cuts, and guide us in repeating a recipe consistently. So, with this theory(fact?) in mind.. wouldn't the Product to be distilled have all that methanol in it? That is to say... if we distill a beer, and try to remove some methanol by cuts, there should be no, or less methanol in our final product. However, if we drink that beer, don't we drink all the methanol? We could apply this to Wine or Cider as well. So, if methanol is so bad, why is it to be avoided so much in distillation, but, if this theory holds true, it is never a concern when imbibing wine or beer. Like, if i don't make cuts, my vodka contains methanol which theoretically if in high enough concentrations could be an issue, taste and health wise. But, if i do not distill my product, let's say i made a beer from all barley. I'm not removing anything from that beer, i intend to drink it as is(after primary/secondary fermentation, bottling, etc etc) Why is it ok to drink this beer, and why is methanol not discussed or considered an issue in any way in this case?

I apologize if my questions are based on incorrect assumptions or lack of understanding, or if i have not done enough research. If that is the case, please feel free to set me straight, or tell me to shut the fuck up and read more

My final question... When will the next season of Craft Distilling podcast be coming out?

I'll get some more questions together for you. Thanks again for posting this, Single Malt, and thank you Devin!

[butterpants]

I enjoy his podcast. Cool format and informative.

He needs to create more content.

Is he still in Colorado?

[Single Malt Yinzer]

As an FYI he has parted ways with Dalkita. I do not know the fate of the podcast but he said he wanted to continue it. I'll email him with your questions.

[CatCrap]

Awesome! I'd greatly appreciate that!

Thanks!

Too bad about him parting ways, but i guess that's how it goes. Id assume that means we won't see his podcast return, at least in that format. Bummer!

[zapata]

catcrap, I can save you a bit of time waiting for some answers if you'd like. Of course I'm not a pro, and it will still be interesting to hear a pro's perspective on these questions.

Of course on HD and the homedistiling community, we consider there to be 4 Fractions. Foreshots, Heads, Hearts, and Tails. Is this the same case in professional distilling, or are Heads and Foreshots considered one in the same?

The concept we homedistillers have of foreshots does not really exist in industry. In fact what we would call heads are called fores in the scotch industry, and they are all recycled like many of us do with heads. Other markets do different things with their cuts, but I'm not aware of any industry making 2 separate heads cuts the way we hobbyists do. But many craft distillers are coming from or learning from the HDers and some are starting to make our traditional fores cuts.

Isn't, in theory, most of the methanol included in the foreshots and therefore discarded.

No. Contrary to a lot of the older hobbyist information, methanol is not effectively concentrated in the foreshots. Acetone, acetaldehyde and other things are, but methanol is surprisingly consistent throughout the run. Excluding any cut that contains any methanol will of course lower the total amount of methanol collected.

Distillation does not Create any chemical components.

Maybe not the overall point you were getting at with this, but it does actually create components. Not methanol for sure, but it can certainly provide the energy needed for esters to form break or transesterize, the copper contact to transform sulphur compounds, and various other reactions depending on how the still is heated and thus how much localized overheating there is.