Basic Distillation Calculator App

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monstersX
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

There's also the Canadian tables
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency ... -1993.html

which are handily provided in text format..
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Yeah the reasonable free flow between weight and volume makes it hard to parse out examples sometimes.
NZChris wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:08 am
Hügelwilli wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:50 am Also your app doesn't provide temperature correction.
That is why I use weight rather than volume when I want accuracy or the volume is greater than my measuring glassware,

I use Table 6 to find the weight of the spirit to be diluted, then again to find the weight of finished product, then do the proofing on accurate kitchen scales.
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Demy
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Demy »

I know that maybe I'm "out of place" but it would also be a section that concerns the liqueurs ie the calculation of the alcohol content of water-alcohol-sugar mixtures .. I made a post here a few days ago on the topic and I think it would complete our hobby , if I say nonsense Ignore me ...
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

Mr Sippy wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 5:31 am I've written some programs for fermentation and the thermochem. Planned to tackle blending this winter but haven't got to it yet.
Do you have something to share?
Regarding fermentation I only have such simple formulas like that
1%abv needs 17 sugar per liter and every drop of 1 SG means 0.139%abv.
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Mr Sippy »

Hügelwilli wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:11 am Do you have something to share?
Sure. Different thread though. Fermentation poor choice of words... wash calculator more like it.
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Mr Sippy
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Mr Sippy »

Mr Sippy wrote: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:14 pm Sure. Different thread though.
Changed my mind.
At first, didn't want to tread on OP but maybe food for thought here for his basic distillation app. Sorry Bill.

Preface: I am not a programmer. I taught myself C programming language as a means of new learning to maintain, what aging experts call, neuroplasticity. My programs are console applications- think DOS 3.x but they work. Written for fun, I generally do not put them out there except by request. They're not sexy but are mathematically rigorous, I believe. They have zero error handling. Careless typers beware. :)

I wrote this one for sugar washes. It includes a mixing routine so blended ingredients (sugar, cold water, and hot water) arrive at the strike temperature. For computational simplicity, hot water is boiling water. Program uses Clausius-Clapyron to find users boiling point from local pressure. Takes metric and imperial input.

User inputs are pressure, desired wash volume, and target alcohol %
User inputs are also required for cold water, ambient, and strike temperatures.
In my mixing; cold water is out of the tap at 55F, sugar is ambient, and strike is 90F. Sugar doesn't have much influence but it's included anyway.

Particulars:
17 grams sugar per 1% per liter of solution
198 grams sugar per cup
Sugar volume dissolved = sugar volume dry * 5/8.
SG equation from HD parent site calculators.

I think most home distillers have their sugar washes well established. But if anyone finds this useful, great!
Please let me know of errors, inconsistencies, or improvements.

... and now after all that I cannot attach a file with an .exe extension. :( What now?

Edit: Was able to send it by PM
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Hügelwilli
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

I didn't get the exe file. It would be a security issue if we were able to send and open exe files directly from the forum.
Probably you can pack it in a zip file and upload it here. But anyway I wouldn't open an exe file from someone I don't know.

All the shortcuts are room for improvement. But also we are not able to replace them all. For example we have replaced the simple formula of the density of sugar-water-solutions by data tables. And for grain mash calculations we use tables for maltose and glucose instead of sucrose. But honestly I think it is interesting but not necessary. I hope it leads to something. I would like to calculate from the SG of a running ferment to the abv more accurate. This would be a real improvement.
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Mr Sippy »

Hügelwilli wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:44 am But anyway I wouldn't open an exe file from someone I don't know.
Then why'd you ask? :lol:
Hügelwilli wrote: Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:44 am I would like to calculate from the SG of a running ferment to the abv more accurate
Don't know your method but how are you getting to SG? By way of pynchometer or direct from hydrometer? Much difference? All else comes to mind is a Thiele tube. Back into abv from boil point?
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

I didn't know that you have exe-files. I thought it is perhaps excel.

To measure the SG is possible many ways, this is not the point. The point is to replace the simple formula abvofwash = (OG - FG) x 0.139. I think you know the formula, right? OG is the SG before fermentation, FG is the SG during or after fermentation. Also the hd calculators use it. Some beer brewing internet sites have a more complicated formula, but they are better only in the small range of beer gravities.
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Mr Sippy »

Have you seen this data set of specific gravity/ABV?
http://www.haandbrygforum.dk/gallery/al ... eller..pdf

The data are pretty linear. Couple HD members advocated a OG-GG * 132.25 factor instead of 129.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25541&start=12
It's clear from spreadsheet that a 132.25 factor represents a 'smoothed' linear regression solution to this data set.

From the residuals I don't think using a factor or point to point interpolation would make an appreciable difference. I will incorporate the data into my sugar wash calculator though.
hydrometer data set.xlsx
(12.39 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
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monstersX
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

App is on play store now if you're interested.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... distillers
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

it does now!

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... distillers
LWTCS wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:18 pm Does it work on Android?
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Teddysad
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Teddysad »

Check the sugar wash section. Not working
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by NormandieStill »

monstersX wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:44 am App is on play store now if you're interested.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... distillers
And works on Android 4.1 and up. Many thanks. Installing it now.
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

Mr Sippy wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 10:10 am Have you seen this data set of specific gravity/ABV?
http://www.haandbrygforum.dk/gallery/al ... eller..pdf

The data are pretty linear. Couple HD members advocated a OG-GG * 132.25 factor instead of 129.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25541&start=12
It's clear from spreadsheet that a 132.25 factor represents a 'smoothed' linear regression solution to this data set.

From the residuals I don't think using a factor or point to point interpolation would make an appreciable difference. I will incorporate the data into my sugar wash calculator though.
hydrometer data set.xlsx
Yes, I know that my 139 is the highest number you find in internet. But it fits better to practical results in my opinion. But I am not sure. One more reason to replace this formula.
The data of SG -> potential alcohol may be pretty linear, simply because g/lt sugar -> SG is pretty linear. But this doesn't say anything, if the real abv rises linear compared to the continuous dropping of the SG during fermentation.

Interesting is, that they have this chart with temperature correction of water density, and it seems they use it also for sugar water measurements.
According to the data I have is the correction value higher the more sugar is in the solution. So what they do is another shortcut.

In your xlsx column E: I think the first two or three values (E11 - E13) are as low because of rounding in column A and B. Without those values the average would be much higher than 126.31.
Unfortunately they don't write where is this data from.
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

monstersX,

The bottle calculator is wrong:
For example dilute 80abv to 1lt 40abv. Of course it needs exact 500ml 80abv. In 500ml 80abv is 400ml ethanol and in 1000ml 40abv also is 400ml ethanol. Your app calculates 490ml 80abv and 510ml water.
Also in your app the ethanol and water volumes always sum up to the desired volume. This is wrong because of contraction. There are fundamental errors in this calculation. Strange, because the other dilution calculator works.

The sugar wash calculator:
Probably you mean not "Volume of Water (L)" but "Volume of Wash (L)".
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Demy
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Demy »

Bottle dillution and dillution Calculator do the same thing or am I wrong?
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Thanks!

Just want to thank everyone for the feedback!

I’ll have a look at what’s been mentioned, I finished temp adjustment for sg as well

B


.................................
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Demy wrote:Bottle dillution and dillution Calculator do the same thing or am I wrong?
Bottle dilution is for making a particular amount of final product, dilution is for diluting all of your product.

Related but different


edit............................
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by MihiT »

Where's the Symbian60 and BBOS10 ports ?? lol.
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by NormandieStill »

Tried to attach this in a message but phpBB doesn't allow attachments apparently.
ScrenCapDistillersApp.png
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo

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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

I believe this is fixed, new version rolling out now.
NormandieStill wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 11:44 pm Tried to attach this in a message but phpBB doesn't allow attachments apparently.

ScrenCapDistillersApp.png
monstersX
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Hügelwilli wrote: Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:03 pm monstersX,

The bottle calculator is wrong:
For example dilute 80abv to 1lt 40abv. Of course it needs exact 500ml 80abv. In 500ml 80abv is 400ml ethanol and in 1000ml 40abv also is 400ml ethanol. Your app calculates 490ml 80abv and 510ml water.
Also in your app the ethanol and water volumes always sum up to the desired volume. This is wrong because of contraction. There are fundamental errors in this calculation. Strange, because the other dilution calculator works.

The sugar wash calculator:
Probably you mean not "Volume of Water (L)" but "Volume of Wash (L)".
Hi and thanks.

re: bottle calculator, it's true the final volume won't be exactly 1lt, and possibly I'll add a note to that effect. But regarding the volumes, I think in your example, 490ml of 80%abv spirit and 510ml of water is correct to get a 'very close to' 40% abv.. this is again generated using the Table6 data.. and those numbers are what show up if you use the dilution calculator, so is it just the final volume difference that you are pointing out?
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

When you mix 490ml 80% with 510ml water you will get 40%, but only 981ml.

Your tables provide the data for such calculations I think. But it seems you don't know how to use it.
I calculate this example for you:

40%abv is SG 0.95. So the density is 0.948kg/lt.
The abw is 40 x densitypureethanol / 0.948 = 33.3
So you want 948g 33.3%abw.
This is 948 x 33.3% = 316g ethanol, and 632g water.

80%abv is SG 0.861. So the density is 0.859kg/lt.
The abw is 80 x densitypureethanol / 0.859 = 73.5

For 316g ethanol you need 316 / 73.5% = 430g 80%abv. This includes 430 x 26.5% = 114g water.
So for total 632g water you have to add 632 - 114 = 518g water, what is 519ml.
And 430g 80%abv is 430 / 0.859 = 501ml.

So 501ml 80%abv and 519ml water sum up to 1lt 40%abv.
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Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Hügelwilli wrote:When you mix 490ml 80% with 510ml water you will get 40%, but only 981ml.

Your tables provide the data for such calculations I think. But it seems you don't know how to use it.
I calculate this example for you:

40%abv is SG 0.95. So the density is 0.948kg/lt.
The abw is 40 x densitypureethanol / 0.948 = 33.3
So you want 948g 33.3%abw.
This is 948 x 33.3% = 316g ethanol, and 632g water.

80%abv is SG 0.861. So the density is 0.859kg/lt.
The abw is 80 x densitypureethanol / 0.859 = 73.5

For 316g ethanol you need 316 / 73.5% = 430g 80%abv. This includes 430 x 26.5% = 114g water.
So for total 632g water you have to add 632 - 114 = 518g water, what is 519ml.
And 430g 80%abv is 430 / 0.859 = 501ml.

So 501ml 80%abv and 519ml water sum up to 1lt 40%abv.
Thanks for that!
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

MihiT wrote:Where's the Symbian60 and BBOS10 ports ?? lol.
Working on the blackberry pager version
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

In case someone wonders what the difference between SG and density is and how to calculate one from the other:

SG is the density relative to water. So something with the same density than water has a SG of 1.
Density is the absolute density in kg/lt. Water has a density of 0.9982 kg/lt at 20°C.

So if something has SG of 0.9, it has a density of 0.9 x 0.9982 = 0.898 kg/lt
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by stillanoob »

Downloaded for android and seems to be working.
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Considering adding a brew log,
* create a batch
* add notes
* add SG / temp (direct from SG adjustment form), ability to add it throughout the run

The fun feature there would be to at any point from the notes, have it populate the ABV calculator with your first and last SG readings...
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Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Now uses the proper bottle calculator, thanks a tonne @Hügelwilli ! Your help has been invaluable in figuring out some of the maths.

I also added a separate conversions tab, so it has SG adjust for temp, and C <-> F, will add some volume conversions in there in time

https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... distillers

If anyone has some thoughts while they are actually brewing, like 'boy it would be handy if' , I'd love to hear it. I don't want to just add a billion calculators that aren't really helpful etc..

Anyhow, great having all you people to collaborate with on this little hobby project.

Happy New Year.
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Ok, new version is up. 1.3.1 on play store, in review for App Store (iOS)
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