Basic Distillation Calculator App

Research sources, reviews and links to information relating to distillation.

Moderator: Site Moderator

monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Hi All,

I find the web based calculators to be difficult to use on my phone when I'm in the lab, and was not able to find an easy/simple app, so I made one.

It's iOS only for now, It's free, I don't want anything from you. I hope you find it helpful, and I'd appreciate any feedback, additional calculators etc.. whatever you'd find handy to have in hand while practicing your craft.

I can release it for android as well if there's interest, I may or may not do that. I will add imperial units however (but really you should use metric :D )

https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/distiller ... 1600736639

If you already use an app that does this, let me know! I couldn't find one.

Anyhow, hope it's useful.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by NZChris »

The Bottle Dilution calculator is inaccurate.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 8#p7623488
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12835
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by LWTCS »

Does it work on Android?
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
User avatar
Demy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3084
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Demy »

I used the "moonshine" app out of curiosity. I believe it would take a willing forum member to create a complete app for our hobby (including liquor calculations).
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12835
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by LWTCS »

Sugar to alcohol yeild
Grains yeild,
Fruits yeild
Dilution calculator
Vape temp to abv converter
Liters to gallons converter
Farenheit to Celsius converter
Heat input by volume
Bottling calculator
Barreling calculator
Run speed estimator

What else it need?
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Oh great! I’ll fix it

NZChris wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:53 pm The Bottle Dilution calculator is inaccurate.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 8#p7623488
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Yeah, I just haven’t submitted it, I’ll get on that

LWTCS wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:18 pm Does it work on Android?
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

The app calcohol actually looks pretty good. Actually it’s pretty much what I wanted!

Room for improvement though
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Hmm, that thread pretty readily mixes Litres (a volume) and grams (a weight)....
monstersX wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:11 pm Oh great! I’ll fix it

NZChris wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 1:53 pm The Bottle Dilution calculator is inaccurate.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 8#p7623488
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

ok, I think I understand the charts, anyone have a link to the chart in text form? I'll run the calculation off it directly
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

I made a text version of it, posted on its own.
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

I updated this to use the table6 lookup chart. I also updated the bottle dilution calculator to use those numbers which I 'think' I got right.
User avatar
IMALOSERSCUMBAG
Swill Maker
Posts: 252
Joined: Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:50 am
Location: Workn in the Garage

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by IMALOSERSCUMBAG »

monstersX wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:12 pm Yeah, I just haven’t submitted it, I’ll get on that

LWTCS wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 2:18 pm Does it work on Android?
Looks promising. Patiently waiting...... :think:
NormandieStill
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1737
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
Location: Northwest France

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by NormandieStill »

If you can make your android version compatible with ICS that would be great.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo

A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
User avatar
Demy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3084
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Demy »

It would be nice the Android version .... if you have a capacity to create a nice app, it would be nice that many other members participated in the discussion to perfect your efforts.I have always dreamed of an app "born on Home Distiller", an official app in short ....
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Screen Shot 2021-12-22 at 8.27.20 PM.png
once I figure out how to get into the play store I'll post it. Seems fine on this galaxy emulator
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

That's > 10 years old, I don't think I'm able to do that with the tools I'm using.
NormandieStill wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 11:59 am If you can make your android version compatible with ICS that would be great.
NormandieStill
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1737
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
Location: Northwest France

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by NormandieStill »

monstersX wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:42 pm That's > 10 years old, I don't think I'm able to do that with the tools I'm using.
I'm painfully aware of that. One of my big issues with Android is that they force minimum version numbers on developers. There's no reason that it couldn't run on ICS (unless you're using some fancy doohicky) but Google won't allow it. My Galaxy S2 is a great phone, let down only by the fact that I can't run any apps produced in the last 4 years or so. I don't like being forced to replace a perfectly functional bit of tech, because Google says it's too old. :-(

Anyway... if you can, I'd be grateful. If not... don't lose any sleep over it.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo

A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
Hügelwilli
Swill Maker
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:52 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

The problem I see with this table No 6 is, that the numbers don't look right. The last value, 100%abv is SG 0.79365 in air and SG 0.79389 in vacuum. This means a density of 0.79222 or 0.79246 (kg/lt). And this is higher than expexted. For example wikipedia says 0.78945 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol
My calculator says 0.78924, also the alcodens and the moonshine app have those lower values.

I think you should use other data.

Also your app doesn't provide temperature correction. But other apps have this. The higher precision you get with counting in contraction is lost when you don't measure at 20°C.


Edit: And when I see how fast you accept and publish such calculations, I wonder if there are more mistakes.
I haven't downloaded it, because I have an Android.
Mr Sippy
Bootlegger
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:54 pm

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Mr Sippy »

Hugelwilli- I don't think anyone can argue against rigorousness the OIML R22 equations I believe you are using- and that I know Alcodens is using. Even if they do not consider a formula for the density conversion, involving the conventional value of the cubic expansion coefficient of soda lime glass specific to alcohol hydrometers and recommended by the OIML. :lol:

I have much respect for your work as evidenced by the hobbybrennan calculators.

But 0.003 difference at 100% ethanol? :crazy:
Comparisons at more realistic densities would be a more compelling argument.
Be Kind, Tell the Truth, Sip Good Whiskey
Hügelwilli
Swill Maker
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:52 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

I choosed 100%abv because this is the value we have the most solid data from. If I would choose for example 40%abv and I would find differences, the question would be, if the table no 6 perhaps is right?

At 40%abv no. 6 says SG 0.95172 and 0.95178, what means 0.95001 or 0.95007 kg/lt.
OIML says 0.94805 kg/lt.

Is 0.003 much? It is a difference of about 0.2%abv. If we think 0.2%abv doesn't matter then contraction doesn't matter too and we can go back to the simple calculation: 1lt 80%abv plus 1lt water is 2lt 40%abv.

(I measure alcohol concentration with pycnometers. And yes, the calculation tool for this includes the expansion of the glass... :lol: )


Edit: And 0.5°C away from 20°C it is a difference of also around 0.2%abv.
User avatar
Demy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3084
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Demy »

NormandieStill wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 10:38 pm
monstersX wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 6:42 pm That's > 10 years old, I don't think I'm able to do that with the tools I'm using.
I'm painfully aware of that. One of my big issues with Android is that they force minimum version numbers on developers. There's no reason that it couldn't run on ICS (unless you're using some fancy doohicky) but Google won't allow it. My Galaxy S2 is a great phone, let down only by the fact that I can't run any apps produced in the last 4 years or so. I don't like being forced to replace a perfectly functional bit of tech, because Google says it's too old. :-(

Anyway... if you can, I'd be grateful. If not... don't lose any sleep over it.
I had a very old phone on which I inserted an Android custom ROM, to those days the cyanogenmod for the biggest, now there are others .. you could think of something like that when you can't use it anymore even if it's a delicate procedure
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Very happy to have any feedback, and I used table6 as that's what was suggested and seems popular, I've been pointed at other sources, but I think, my target is to help out home distillers like myself, so at some point, good enough has to be good enough. But if you have an alternate table, I'd love to see it.

You're obviously measuring something far in excess of what a hobbyist needs i think, this is a wild sentence
"I measure alcohol concentration with pycnometers", glad to have you to learn from!

re: time to turn around, I'm on xmas break, and adding a calculator isn't a big deal.

re: temp control, that's coming.

Also, android is in review, should be live in a day or so

Bill.
Hügelwilli wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 6:09 am I choosed 100%abv because this is the value we have the most solid data from. If I would choose for example 40%abv and I would find differences, the question would be, if the table no 6 perhaps is right?

At 40%abv no. 6 says SG 0.95172 and 0.95178, what means 0.95001 or 0.95007 kg/lt.
OIML says 0.94805 kg/lt.

Is 0.003 much? It is a difference of about 0.2%abv. If we think 0.2%abv doesn't matter then contraction doesn't matter too and we can go back to the simple calculation: 1lt 80%abv plus 1lt water is 2lt 40%abv.

(I measure alcohol concentration with pycnometers. And yes, the calculation tool for this includes the expansion of the glass... :lol: )


Edit: And 0.5°C away from 20°C it is a difference of also around 0.2%abv.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by NZChris »

Hügelwilli wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:50 am Also your app doesn't provide temperature correction.
That is why I use weight rather than volume when I want accuracy or the volume is greater than my measuring glassware,

I use Table 6 to find the weight of the spirit to be diluted, then again to find the weight of finished product, then do the proofing on accurate kitchen scales.
Mr Sippy
Bootlegger
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:54 pm

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Mr Sippy »

Hügelwilli wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:50 am Also your app doesn't provide temperature correction. But other apps have this. The higher precision you get with counting in contraction is lost when you don't measure at 20°C.
That's what Table 1 is for. Correct from apparent proof to proof at 60F. Then determine respective volumes of water and ethanol per Table 6.

monstersX- I have Table 1 in text format; OCR translated and casually proofread. PM me if interested.
Be Kind, Tell the Truth, Sip Good Whiskey
Hügelwilli
Swill Maker
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:52 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

monstersX wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:11 pm But if you have an alternate table, I'd love to see it.
I gave you this link in the other thread: https://www.oiml.org/en/files/pdf_r/r022-e75.pdf
I don't see any reason not to use it.
Using table no 6 you voluntarily use less precision other free apps offer: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... l=de&gl=US
Where is the reason to use your app instead of that one?
Hügelwilli
Swill Maker
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:52 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

NZChris wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 2:08 am
Hügelwilli wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:50 am Also your app doesn't provide temperature correction.
That is why I use weight rather than volume when I want accuracy or the volume is greater than my measuring glassware,

I use Table 6 to find the weight of the spirit to be diluted, then again to find the weight of finished product, then do the proofing on accurate kitchen scales.
Yes, of course it is better to dilute by weight. But in any case you have to measure the abv before diluting. And for this you need to correct for temperature unless you measure at exact 20°C.
Hügelwilli
Swill Maker
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2019 5:52 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Hügelwilli »

Mr Sippy wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 3:17 am
Hügelwilli wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:50 am Also your app doesn't provide temperature correction. But other apps have this. The higher precision you get with counting in contraction is lost when you don't measure at 20°C.
That's what Table 1 is for. Correct from apparent proof to proof at 60F. Then determine respective volumes of water and ethanol per Table 6.

monstersX- I have Table 1 in text format; OCR translated and casually proofread. PM me if interested.
I don't find no 1. I would like to have the link. And no 6 is at 68°F (20°C)?
monstersX
Novice
Posts: 71
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 8:22 am

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by monstersX »

Oh yes the French tables, I see this one is in English, when I looked before I thought they were in French! I will actually have a look at that. My French is pretty basic so I put that to the side for now, thanks though.

re: using my app, well my hope is to make something that is nice to use for the hobbyist, but really it's for me and if nobody else finds it useful, that's fine.

Hügelwilli wrote: Fri Dec 24, 2021 4:21 am
monstersX wrote: Thu Dec 23, 2021 1:11 pm But if you have an alternate table, I'd love to see it.
I gave you this link in the other thread: https://www.oiml.org/en/files/pdf_r/r022-e75.pdf
I don't see any reason not to use it.
Using table no 6 you voluntarily use less precision other free apps offer: https://play.google.com/store/apps/deta ... l=de&gl=US
Where is the reason to use your app instead of that one?
Mr Sippy
Bootlegger
Posts: 117
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 3:54 pm

Re: Basic Distillation Calculator App

Post by Mr Sippy »

Table 1 as published.
https://www.ttb.gov/images/pdfs/foia_Ga ... able_1.pdf

Table 6 also normalized at 60F
http://alcoholblending.com/referencemat ... esttb.html

I didn't post the text file of Table intentionally. There's a lot of data in there and the OCR results needed considerable cleanup. It maybe missing a temperature header or two. And it should be be run through a simple validation routine. Happy to provide a copy.

I've written some programs for fermentation and the thermochem. Planned to tackle blending this winter but haven't got to it yet.
Be Kind, Tell the Truth, Sip Good Whiskey
Post Reply