False bottom self build

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Mash master
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False bottom self build

Post by Mash master » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:11 am

Hi guys,

I’m looking to put a false bottom in my 150L mush barrel to aid draining the wash off the grain after fermentation.

I was going to use a S/S 16” pot lid that is concave, fit a compression elbow to the center, attach flexi hose off that, run the hose into the back of a ball valve drain off fitted to the side of the barrel. This will also allow me to pump the wash straight into my kettle. I think I will drill loads of 3mm holes all over the lid.............thoughts?

Cheers 🍻
Jay

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Mash master » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:15 am

Sorry I should have put this in the mashing/fermenting section!

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by shadylane » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:29 am

Buy exxtra drill bits :lol:

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Mash master » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:31 am

shadylane wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:29 am
Buy exxtra drill bits :lol:
:lol: Yeah sounds like a plan!

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by seabass » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:33 am

Overall, sounds like it will work. I wouldn't be surprised if that pot lid warps while you're drilling. Keeping it flat where it meets your mash tun might be difficult. Worth a try though.

What kind of compression fitting are you planning to use?

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Mash master » Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:06 pm

seabass wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:33 am
Overall, sounds like it will work. I wouldn't be surprised if that pot lid warps while you're drilling. Keeping it flat where it meets your mash tun might be difficult. Worth a try though.

What kind of compression fitting are you planning to use?
Yeah I was hoping the weight of the mash would hold it down?

I was thinking something like this on top
4A42D1A3-6D04-4DDB-B7B1-B714D01F1315.png
And this for the side of the barrel
3F2C84FC-F8D2-4099-BBCD-E2A0CBC591E3.png

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Mash master » Sat Sep 05, 2020 12:14 pm

I was also thinking about fixing a shower head on the back of the drain off and not using the lid? Or fixing some kind of funnel ish and packing with copper mesh?

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Demy » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:31 am

I've never used a fermentation filter but I can tell you that thin cuts instead of holes will work best. I don't know if I understood your method correctly but instead of the lid consider the possibility of inserting a tube (with cuts) in a circle on the bottom, connected to the tap. A stainless steel corrugated pipe comes to mind !!
I mean such a system
filtro 1.jpg
filtro 2.jpg

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Mash master » Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:54 am

Demy wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:31 am
I've never used a fermentation filter but I can tell you that thin cuts instead of holes will work best. I don't know if I understood your method correctly but instead of the lid consider the possibility of inserting a tube (with cuts) in a circle on the bottom, connected to the tap. A stainless steel corrugated pipe comes to mind !!
I mean such a systemfiltro 1.jpgfiltro 2.jpg
Thanks Demi,

Doing some more research on this there are lots of people suggesting tubes with slots cut into.

I want to try and keep the bottom of the barrel clear so I can give it a good stir trying to avoid the grains sticking together.

I am thinking now of fixing say some kind of metal “can” on the inside attached to the tap then packing it with copper mesh as a filter if that makes sense?

🍻 Jay

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Demy » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:04 am

Do you mean something like that?
Cattura.PNG
I tried this system in sparge (fermentation) and it failed. In my experience it clogs easily but it depends on the particle size. I believe that in fermentation it would do the same. You could use a copper tube with the cuts but I'm not perfectly sure about using it in fermentation.

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Mash master » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:23 am

Yeah something along those lines.

I’m not going to use it for fermentation, I want to ferment on the grain, the idea is I don’t want to do three separate mashes and mix them together (150L mash tun & 50L still) I want to be able to make one mash, using my boil kettle to supply the hot water then drain off most of the wash, hence the filter ish/type system.

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by seabass » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:43 am

The easiest way is the stainless braids. Just use the outer braid of a sink water line. It works well cut clogs easier than a typical false bottom.

A false bottom works great. They are more efficient with long narrow slots instead of holes, but 3mm holes work perfectly fine, although they will let some grain through and clog a pump if you aren't using a lauter grant.

Then there is the manifold, usually pvc, with the slots cut in them. They aren't more efficient than other designs, but are simpler to build than a false bottom and less likely to clog than a stainless braid.

Use which ever design you prefer. At some point I've used all of these designs and have settled on a false bottom for my latest build. I will eventually make a slotted false bottom, but for now I use perforated stainless with .093in holes. It works great and gives me way better efficiency than the other designs have. I usually get around 80% efficiency with recirculation.

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by seabass » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:47 am

Mash master wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:23 am
Yeah something along those lines.

I’m not going to use it for fermentation, I want to ferment on the grain, the idea is I don’t want to do three separate mashes and mix them together (150L mash tun & 50L still) I want to be able to make one mash, using my boil kettle to supply the hot water then drain off most of the wash, hence the filter ish/type system.
What are you going to be making? A mash tun is only useful if you're using a decent amount of barley. If you're looking at fermenting on grain, you normally wouldn't use one.

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Mash master » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:51 am

seabass wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:43 am
The easiest way is the stainless braids. Just use the outer braid of a sink water line. It works well cut clogs easier than a typical false bottom.

A false bottom works great. They are more efficient with long narrow slots instead of holes, but 3mm holes work perfectly fine, although they will let some grain through and clog a pump if you aren't using a lauter grant.

Then there is the manifold, usually pvc, with the slots cut in them. They aren't more efficient than other designs, but are simpler to build than a false bottom and less likely to clog than a stainless braid.

Use which ever design you prefer. At some point I've used all of these designs and have settled on a false bottom for my latest build. I will eventually make a slotted false bottom, but for now I use perforated stainless with .093in holes. It works great and gives me way better efficiency than the other designs have. I usually get around 80% efficiency with recirculation.
Thanks Seabass, what does the manifold option look like? Is it like the “can” option I was talking about?

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by seabass » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:58 am

I stole some images from Google. It works better if you face the slots downward. It can be copper or pvc.



a4e74a62f18a56a47c4942be6a2ebe6e.jpg
DSC_2009.jpg

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Mash master » Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:53 am

Thanks Seabass, really appreciated 👍

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Demy » Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:46 pm

It was the system I meant. Keep in mind that it must be stiff enough not to crush under the weight of the grain. Use the system you can build easily.

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by The Baker » Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:56 pm

Can you get flexible (say stainless), effective tubing that is not lined?
I think most have rubber or plastic or something...
I was thinking of a simple vapour tube through a pre-heater...

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by seabass » Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:27 pm

The Baker wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:56 pm
Can you get flexible (say stainless), effective tubing that is not lined?
I think most have rubber or plastic or something...
I was thinking of a simple vapour tube through a pre-heater...

Geoff
The only flexible water tight stainless tubing I'm aware of is the corrugated stainless. Or do you mean the stainless braided line?

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Demy » Sun Sep 06, 2020 11:33 pm

seabass wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 4:27 pm
The Baker wrote:
Sun Sep 06, 2020 1:56 pm
Can you get flexible (say stainless), effective tubing that is not lined?
I think most have rubber or plastic or something...
I was thinking of a simple vapour tube through a pre-heater...

Geoff
The only flexible water tight stainless tubing I'm aware of is the corrugated stainless. Or do you mean the stainless braided line?
In fact, there are stainless steel braids with a rubber tube inside and then there is a stainless steel corrugated tube. If you use the hose with "braid" you have to remove the inner rubber hose but I don't recommend it. Better to use the corrugated stainless steel pipe with cuts and as a second choice the copper pipe (with cuts).
Flexible with braid
flessibile.jpg
flessibile.jpg (11.41 KiB) Viewed 770 times
Corrugated pipe
corrugato.jpg

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Mash master » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:57 am

Cheers guys 🍻 👍

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Yummyrum » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:08 am

LOL , I remember those braided hoses . Cutting off the ends and pulling off the rubber ....then trying to stretch it over copper and put hose clamps on it .
The sharp cut ends of that Stainless braided stuff hurts like a bastard in your fingers :esad:
But it works like a treat as a strainer .
1B4A9648-404E-44FA-A17C-237B4B4DCA92.jpeg
9AC573AA-B6BF-4F2D-BC93-A61C53A5DB2A.jpeg

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by seabass » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:26 am

I used one of those for years. Lots of tiny stab wounds trying to disassemble and clean things. Those stray wires hurt!

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by The Baker » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:14 pm

Seabass said, 'The only flexible water tight stainless tubing I'm aware of is the corrugated stainless.'

Just to be sure, this has no lining?

I am thinking of something flexible and watertight, without a lining, to carry vapour through a pre-heater.
To warm the next run.

Thanks,

Geoff
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Re: False bottom self build

Post by seabass » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:55 pm

The Baker wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:14 pm
Seabass said, 'The only flexible water tight stainless tubing I'm aware of is the corrugated stainless.'

Just to be sure, this has no lining?

I am thinking of something flexible and watertight, without a lining, to carry vapour through a pre-heater.
To warm the next run.

Thanks,

Geoff
I'm pretty sure it's just stainless other than the gaskets used for normal connections. They are used regularly here for an easy reflux condenser and it comes in contact on the outside with vapor. I haven't seen any mention of lining in the products I've looked up.

Some are coated on the outside, but are usually coated with colored plastic. Uncoated I'm seeing temp ratings of 350f, so no plastic in there.

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by The Baker » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:51 pm

Thanks for that, Seabass.

Geoff
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Re: False bottom self build

Post by The Baker » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:51 pm

Thanks.

Geoff
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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Swedish Pride » Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:01 am

been looking at this and it looks like it would work
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001057 ... hweb201603_
Don't be a dick

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Re: False bottom self build

Post by The Baker » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:45 am

Swedish Pride wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:01 am
been looking at this and it looks like it would work
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001057 ... hweb201603_
Thanks.
That one is not waterproof, in fact just the opposite so would be useful in lots of situations.
I was thinking in this case of a waterproof model to carry vapour through the next lot of liquid to be distilled,
as a pre-heater so it would not suit that.
(Something flexible could be lots easier to fit inside a closed vessel).

Geoff
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Re: False bottom self build

Post by Corsaire » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:05 am

That looks like it would be suitable for steam mashing. Could someone smarter than me say if that would be a good idea?

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