Building a smaller still

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TwoSheds
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Building a smaller still

Post by TwoSheds »

Hi all, need some help on still design.

I've ordered a Brewhaus 15 gal/3" CM still but it ain't getting here quickly. This was to be my first still, but...

From all the reading/learning/watching I've done while I wait for the still to come I'm now thinking that a second, smaller still would be nice to have for recipe development and small batch spirit runs. That leads me to look at building something capable of doing spirit runs for batches (rum and whisky) between 5 and 13 gallons, and down the road smaller gin infusions and essential oil extractions.

So here's the questions:

Is 3 gallons a workable size for these needs? Based on my rough calculations I should be able to strip a 5 gallon ferment in 2 runs then do a single spirit run.

Is 3 gallons a good compliment to a 15 gallon setup or should I be looking for a 5 gallon boiler? I'm looking at the 3 gallon milk can from Mile Hi but open to suggestions.

What's a good heat source and controller for this size? My stove is electric and I know the on/off cycling is probably not good.

In this size I figure I should stay in a 2" column, right? If I go to 3" I'd need to go taller and might even need more power to push it. (If it didn't matter, I'd go 3" so everything would be interchangeable with the bigger one when it arrives, but I don't think that's the case.)

I'm thinking tri-clamp to make it modular and build my own Liebig with copper. There are more questions and details to work out, but I figure I'll start with this.

Thanks for reading and any responses, and for all the other info folks have posted here! Some great stuff!
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by Yummyrum »

Assuming you are talking about a Pot still On a 3-5 gal boiler , the riser ( the thing you incorrectly called a column) size is pretty irrelevant . I used a 3/4” riser on my firsts little pot still with no issues at all . No need to use 2 or 3” at all .It won’t hurt , but it won’t do anything useful either .

Assuming you are talking about a reflux still, then yes it has a packed column attached ( with a reflux condenser at the top) , on a small boiler , you would be best not to go bigger than 2”.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by NZChris »

Having a still about a third of the volume of your main still is handy for spirit runs from a single strip. A third still a third of the size of that one is handy for small batch gin and is my most often used still.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by TwoSheds »

Thanks Yummyrum, I'm thinking pot still to start so that helps. I'll stick to 2" in case I want to switch to reflux later on, but I feel like I'd more likely do that in the bigger still.

NZChris, that makes sense and sounds like I'm in the ballpark. Seems like I can get into this for a small investment and with tri clamps all around if I find need to mix it up later I can reuse components.

Thank you both!
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by still_stirrin »

TwoSheds,

Have a look at my stock pot potstill (link in my signature). It is a perfect small batch still for gins or even small spirit runs. On the modified hotplate, it is easy to operate. Plus, it is quite portable for those times I need to “polish” a spirit remotely.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by contrahead »

TwoSheds wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:37 am
Is 3 gallons a workable size for these needs? Based on my rough calculations I should be able to strip a 5 gallon ferment in 2 runs then do a single spirit run.
I think 3 gallons (12 L) is an ideal sized pot for the type of usage you describe. Not too big, not too little. A pot like the one in the picture below is not necessary but would be a nice foundation to start with.
t004.jpg
Don't worry about on/off cycling with your stove. The power can flicker on and off as much as it likes. Its not like frying eggs in a pan. The thermodynamics of a mass of 3 fluid gallons, will insure your wash will be slow to gain temperature and slow to release temperature, regardless.

I have a 1 ¼” diameter, 32” tall, SS-scrubber packed, copper riser for a similar sized setup, and it works beautifully. The real beauty though is the fact that everything is small and compact enough to work atop the kitchen stove. Because of the smaller capacity, a run take less time too. Everything can be assembled or disassembled quickly, and stowed out of sight.
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TwoSheds
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by TwoSheds »

Thanks Contrahead. 32" seems tall but I bet you get some good reflux even without a dephlegmator! I'm thinking for pot stilling I'll start with a 6" riser to get the Liebig high enough, then down the road if I decide to try reflux with this setup I can add a longer spool and a condenser later.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by still_stirrin »

TwoSheds wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:44 am ....I bet you get some good reflux even without a dephlegmator...
I’ll take that bet. —> You’ve been watching the Discovery show, haven’t you.

You won’t get reflux with out a reflux condenser because with a potstill and its riser, regardless how tall it is, when it gets up to operating temperatures the vapors simply progress to the product condenser. There is little to no mechanism to trigger condensation in the riser.

But that’s OK, because it’s a damn potstill! If you’re trying to make vodka, then you’ll need a reflux head and packed column to get as much reflux as possible. Purity comes from the repeated condensing and reboiling cycles within the column where the higher volatile components are separated from less volatile fluids (water).

You need “the right tool for the job”.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by BlueSasquatch »

I'd recommend your 15 gallon becoming your stripper, get a 5-6 gallon still for a spirit still, shoot for copper, and 3" connections, so that you can re-use the riser and condenser from your strip still, or if you make/get something different for the 5-6 gallon, you can always use it on the 15 gal down the road.

I'd also say go propane for your smaller still, 5 gallons is to much for a stock hot plate I believe, and they can turn on/off where the propane can be constant heat, for a strip I'd say it wouldn't matter but for the spirit, the more consistent, the better. Or in the design, put in a 1" threaded port at the bottom and you can come back with an electric element if you decide you don't like gas.

But thats just my 2 cents and I've got little experience compared to others that have already spoken up.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by TwoSheds »

still_stirrin wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:20 am I’ll take that bet. —> You’ve been watching the Discovery show, haven’t you.
Haven't (don't even have cable) but I have done some reading here and elsewhere on passive reflux and it seems to me there would be some in a 32" tall column that's only 1 1/2 wide, unless you insulate the column.

And if you're not, why pack it with SS scrubbies? A little copper, sure, but the stainless doesn't seem like it would have a benefit if there's no reflux at all.

I certainly won't argue with the reflux for neutrals (right tool), and figure I'll do all that on the big still once it's here. Makes sense to do big batches of neutrals that you can use for bunches of stuff, but when experimenting with more expensive ingredients and pot stilling I want to be able to do smaller ones.

Appreciate the feedback and conversation! Learning lots.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by TwoSheds »

BlueSquatch

Reusing was the idea, but 2" components are pretty cheap so I think I'm going that route. Concentric adapters may come into play later on.

The other option I didn't list for a heat source is I have an induction burner which may offer more control. I'd need an adapter to use it with pure stainless, but they make those.

Will probably get my hands on the stuff and get it assembled then I can mess with heat sources after the point.

Thanks!
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by contrahead »

TwoSheds wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 5:44 am ..... I bet you get some good reflux even without a dephlegmator....
That little setup that I described, routinely puts out 86 - 87% ABV on the second (or spirit) run. I sort of thought that was better than expected output from just a regular pot still.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by jonnys_spirit »

My primary boiler/pot-still is an electric heating element fired 16 gallon milk can. I feel like this is a pretty convenient size for home batches. I added a 2.5 gallon alembic and hot plate for smaller infusion style runs... If I'm using already cut spirit to infuse then the smaller size of the 2.5g still works great because I'm really mostly wanting to experiment with different infusion recipes and I can run pretty smallish batches of infused spirit through that... I may like to get something around an 8 gallon at some point down the road so I can do a single strip in the 16 and comfortably do a spirit run in the 8g maybe with some fresh wash top-up - ie; 3-4 strips and a spirit in the 16g is quite a bit of likker and time.. Sometimes I'd prefer to do more smaller test batches and adding a mid sized boiler accommodates that. On the other hand I've many times considered adding a helmet/thumper or a plate or two to the 16g for one and done runs... I'm definitely really keen on staying all copper for anything future I might add though..

Hope that helps!

Cheers!
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Re: Building a smaller still

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jonnys_spirit wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:13 am My primary boiler/pot-still is an electric heating element fired 16 gallon milk can. I feel like this is a pretty convenient size for home batches. I added a 2.5 gallon alembic and hot plate for smaller infusion style runs... If I'm using already cut spirit to infuse then the smaller size of the 2.5g still works great because I'm really mostly wanting to experiment with different infusion recipes and I can run pretty smallish batches of infused spirit through that... I may like to get something around an 8 gallon at some point down the road so I can do a single strip in the 16 and comfortably do a spirit run in the 8g maybe with some fresh wash top-up - ie; 3-4 strips and a spirit in the 16g is quite a bit of likker and time.. Sometimes I'd prefer to do more smaller test batches and adding a mid sized boiler accommodates that. On the other hand I've many times considered adding a helmet/thumper or a plate or two to the 16g for one and done runs... I'm definitely really keen on staying all copper for anything future I might add though..

Hope that helps!

Cheers!
-j
My milk can is 13 gallon, I run 5-6 gallon spirit runs in it all the time and get between 4.5 and 5 liters after cuts depending on how it's getting aged. A 25 gallon mash equals 2 stripping runs, and a spirit run that gets me a nice jug of 120P for oak and a couple quarts at 80 to 90P to sip white while the other jug oaks out. I am considering a small still in the 3 gallon range to do infusions on the stove top.
A 30 gallon wash of SSS makes a hell of a lot of neutral, and I'd like to play around with it more than just making fruit macerations like SPD.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by Saltbush Bill »

SS is correct....no refux condenser will result in almost no reflux.
Also using any form of hot plate that cycles on and off is a really bad idea.
If you want a still to work properly it needs a constant steady energy supply.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by TwoSheds »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 12:16 pm Also using any form of hot plate that cycles on and off is a really bad idea.
If you want a still to work properly it needs a constant steady energy supply.
I have an induction hot plate and thinking that with an adapter plate might be a good alternative. Researching if it cycles... If not I'll get a cheap hot plate and use it with my router speed control.
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Re: Building a smaller still

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TwoSheds wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 4:49 pm I have an induction hot plate and thinking that with an adapter plate might be a good alternative. Researching if it cycles... If not I'll get a cheap hot plate and use it with my router speed control.
There have been quite a few posters asking for help after trying to use cheap hot plates. Try using the google search function to find the threads.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Any heat source that cycles in any way is less than perfect. As Chris pointed out there are hundreds of posts on this forum related to that subject.
Suggest you need to search for and read a few hundred of them if you need further convincing.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by Sailman »

I've been following this Thread from the start and I've got question to those who may have an answer. I too want to build a smaller still, my current setup is a half barrel stainless keg with a 240v 3500 watt element. The plan is to upgrade the element to 5500 watts but if I could get away with just having one element to service both boilers that would be good. I would like to use a 1/6 barrel keg so would a 5500 Watt fold back element work in the smaller keg?
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Re: Building a smaller still

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I doubt it would fit. My 5500w wave element needed a little tweaking to fit in my 13 gallon milk can.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by jonnys_spirit »

How much length do you have in that 1/6bbl? Here's a lower wattage element - They might have shorter and higher wattage but if you cable it correctly to connect either to your controller something like this could be dedicated and lower wattage in a smaller boiler might be adequate? This one is 6" long..



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Re: Building a smaller still

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Yes I know I can get a shorter element that would fit but I was trying to have one element for two stills and still be able to run 240 volts 5500w. I was just thinking that somebody may have already done this and could give a quick answer. I could always look around for a quarter barrel.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by still_stirrin »

Sailman wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:09 pm Yes I know I can get a shorter element that would fit but I was trying to have one element for two stills and still be able to run 240 volts 5500w. I was just thinking that somebody may have already done this and could give a quick answer.
Don’t “shoot the messanger” just because you don’t like the answer.

Face it...you’re cheap! You would rather remove the element from your 1/2 barrel keg to plug into a smaller 1/6 barrel keg than simply buy another element that will actually fit into it. Jeez....it’s only $17USD (about two 6-packs of beer). The problem is that you’ll need a different controller because the smaller element is only 115VAC. So, that’s where your money will actually be spent.

If it were me, I’d build a complete separate still, complete with a different element and power controller. And if more heat was needed than a single element can provide, I’d add a second element. Maybe a little more expense, but it would become a very useful tool. So, spending a little more on something useful is an investment, not really an expense.

Thinking more about it, if you connected two 120VAC elements in series, you could still power them with a 220VAC circuit. And your other controller may be OK provided you don’t try to run it wide open.

Sailman wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:09 pmI could always look around for a quarter barrel.
Good luck with that. They’ve been phased out a while ago. They’re hard to find now days.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by Sailman »

still_stirrin wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:52 pm
Sailman wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:09 pm Yes I know I can get a shorter element that would fit but I was trying to have one element for two stills and still be able to run 240 volts 5500w. I was just thinking that somebody may have already done this and could give a quick answer.
Don’t “shoot the messanger” just because you don’t like the answer.

Face it...you’re cheap! You would rather remove the element from your 1/2 barrel keg to plug into a smaller 1/6 barrel keg than simply buy another element that will actually fit into it. Jeez....it’s only $17USD (about two 6-packs of beer). The problem is that you’ll need a different controller because the smaller element is only 115VAC. So, that’s where your money will actually be spent.

If it were me, I’d build a complete separate still, complete with a different element and power controller. And if more heat was needed than a single element can provide, I’d add a second element. Maybe a little more expense, but it would become a very useful tool. So, spending a little more on something useful is an investment, not really an expense.

Thinking more about it, if you connected two 120VAC elements in series, you could still power them with a 220VAC circuit. And your other controller may be OK provided you don’t try to run it wide open.

Sailman wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 12:09 pmI could always look around for a quarter barrel.
Good luck with that. They’ve been phased out a while ago. They’re hard to find now days.
Yeah you're right I am cheap or as I call it frugal. pennies make dollars dollars make millionaires I may not ever be a millionaire but damn it I sure am going to try! LOL I was thinking more along the lines of not having a lot of extra duplicate equipment laying around.
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Re: Building a smaller still

Post by NZChris »

The purpose of running a smaller still is to be able to run a smaller charge. If you want to run the same element in your small still you have to install it so that you can do that. Heat rises, so don't expect that an element placed high in the charge will boil what is underneath it.
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