Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

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foolproof
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Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by foolproof »

Hey guys, which is faster for striping and/or spirit runs? A traditional 20 gallon copper pot still with a 7 ft coil of 3/8in worm or a 20 gallon column still in pot mode with a Liebig condenser? Both with a 5500 watt element.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by Butch27 »

Which is heavier, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers?
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Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by foolproof »

Are you mocking me or my question?

Either way it’s not very helpful.
Last edited by foolproof on Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by foolproof »

Also I forgot to state a 3” column.


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NZChris
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by NZChris »

A 3/8" tube is probably going blow the weakest seam if you crank up a 5500 Watt element.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by Birrofilo »

The column still will have some internal reflux even without packing and therefore it will be somehow slower than the pot still.

That said, if the power is high enough, the effect of the reflux will be substantially negligible and the two stills will substantially operate with the same speed. IMHO.

The condenser will not determine the speed provided that it has a cooling power which is sufficient to knock down the vapours.

If the condenser is not adequate for 5500W, then you will have to lower the power and in that case you will go slower.

In my understanding the variables that will influence the speed of distillation are power, cooling power of the condenser and the cooling means, and internal reflux (which again is there to some extent even without packing).
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by Butch27 »

NZChris wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:31 pm A 3/8" tube is probably going blow the weakest seam if you crank up a 5500 Watt element.
That 3/8 tube will hold more pressure than pretty much any boiler in use by people in this hobby.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by OtisT »

What kind of column is it? VM, LM, CM? If your column is not closed off from the atmosphere (like a pot still) then you may be limited in the power you can use with your column and the Pot still would be faster for stripping.

Example: My VM head will work for pot stilling, but it is vented on the top so vapor will escape the top if I run with to much power. I can speed things up to full power, just like a pot still, by capping the top of my column head so the system will hold more pressure.

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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by OtisT »

Oopsy.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by Setsumi »

OtisT wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:21 am If your column is not closed off from the atmosphere (like a pot still) then you may be limited in the power you can use with your column and the Pot still would be faster for stripping.

Otis
i think you have worded that wrong, even a pot still should be open to atmosphere. but i understand what you are saying. the still that has only one exit and tha only to the pc could be driven faster.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by foolproof »

I thought I replied my bad. A CM still.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by OtisT »

foolproof wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:44 am I thought I replied my bad. A CM still.
Cool. The CM columns I am familiar with are not vented (except through the PC as previously mentioned) so with no RC or dephlag cooling, it should produce product just as fast as a pot head will if all else is equal. Otis
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by StillerBoy »

There are so many variables, that the question of itself is not really answerable..

What a waste of time.. and to what means will the answer serve..

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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by foolproof »

StillerBoy wrote:There are so many variables, that the question of itself is not really answerable..

What a waste of time.. and to what means will the answer serve..

Mars
Nice vitriol. Very helpful, thank you my friend.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by Yummyrum »

Foolproof , l’m going to say there will be no real difference. 5500w is a fare amount of heat . Enough to overcome any significant passive reflux that might occur . Wrap it in a blanket and it will be the same .
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NZChris
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by NZChris »

Butch27 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:06 am
NZChris wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 10:31 pm A 3/8" tube is probably going blow the weakest seam if you crank up a 5500 Watt element.
That 3/8 tube will hold more pressure than pretty much any boiler in use by people in this hobby.
What seam do you think I'm talking about? Are you hoping to push 5500W worth of vapor through 7' of 3/8" tube without making the 6 o'clock news? If the tube is 3/8" OD, the ID is even less. A 3/8" condenser is far too small to be safe with that element.
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RC Al
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by RC Al »

Chis my liebig is aussie 1/2" @ 6' - which is 10.88mm id and then its crimped every 2 inches so it frequently goes below that in CSA

It gets 12l/hour off gas, which from my boilup times and so forth im achieving the equivalent of 6kw in the boiler currently, havent blown up in the 2 odd years ive used it so far

That said im going to investigate the apparent speed up when stripping if you use a shotgun, as recently reported here
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by foolproof »

Thank you yummyrum.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NZChris wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:27 pm Are you hoping to push 5500W worth of vapor through 7' of 3/8" tube without making the 6 o'clock news? If the tube is 3/8" OD, the ID is even less. A 3/8" condenser is far too small to be safe with that element.
Just for the hell of it I went to the shed and eyeballed a bit of 3/8 copper tube. Inside diameter of the bit have is 5/16th.
Not sure I'd be comfortable pushing 5500W worth of vapour through 7 foot of coil that size either.
Margin for error is about Zero if the still pukes an a bit of corn or something gets in the coil.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by NZChris »

There is a big difference in the cross sectional area of a 3/8" tube compared to a 1/2" tube, let alone the increased chance of a restriction if a mistake causes a puke.
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Re: Pot still or column still in pot mode, which is faster?

Post by Butch27 »

NZChris wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:37 am There is a big difference in the cross sectional area of a 3/8" tube compared to a 1/2" tube, let alone the increased chance of a restriction if a mistake causes a puke.
Yes there is a huge difference. A 3/8" tube which would have an ID of about 1/4" should probably never be used for stillin in most if not all cases. It may be ok for a small gin still where you are not leaving the botanicals in the boiler. A 1/2" tube which has a 3/8" ID (this is what I use) has more than sufficient capacity for a hobby sized still providing you make sure it stays clear and this includes pukes from a boiler containing solids. He said he was using a 3/8" worm. Rightly or wrongly I thought he was referring to the ID. When you talked about "blowing a seam" I figured you were talking about the seam in the tubing. Something else will always give before the tubing.

Most people on the site do a rather poor job of identifying whether they are talking ID or OD. Most do not realize that pipe is measured ID and tubing is measured OD and they use the terms pipe and tubing interchangeably when there is quite a huge difference for our purposes. It would be nice if we had a policy where we always used the ID when referring to our condensers.
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