Strip and spirit runs
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Strip and spirit runs
Why do we need to run it twice. If we do the proper cuts on the first run it seems redundant to run it again unless your wanting to remove flavor?
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Double distillation protocol is pretty typical especially for pot stills. The strip runs are generally hard and fast and the spirit run is fractioned low and slow.
Low wines from the strip aren’t normally drinkable and you have plenty flavor in a double distilled spirit.
3 strips and a spirit produce more product and makes cuts easier and is more time efficient when you strip hard and fast.
Spirit running from a higher abv (like 30% instead of 10%) also produces less smearing which makes for more defined cut points.
Cheers!
-j
Low wines from the strip aren’t normally drinkable and you have plenty flavor in a double distilled spirit.
3 strips and a spirit produce more product and makes cuts easier and is more time efficient when you strip hard and fast.
Spirit running from a higher abv (like 30% instead of 10%) also produces less smearing which makes for more defined cut points.
Cheers!
-j
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
+1 jonny
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Experience is usually the result of bad judgement..
Experience is usually the result of bad judgement..
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Ok, I understand what you're saying. I appreciate the response. I'm doing a "freedom run" today, started about 8a and the question popped up in my head. Happy 4th!
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
You can also do a so-called “1.5” and strip low wines then top those up with fresh wash and spirit run/fraction that. It’s really helpful to have your spirit run boiler charge sitting at a higher abv (up to 40% for safety).
Happy 4th!
Cheers,
-j
Happy 4th!
Cheers,
-j
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
When you guys say hard and fast on the stripping runs, how are you guys running your dephlegmator and condenser, or are you guys even running them? Dumb question i know but the little things im trying to learn.
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Stripping on a pot still, as fast as your product condenser can handle and still knock down all the vapor. Smear it all to hell, and make no cuts. Strip to a collected ABV of under 40%. Mine usually ends up near 35%.
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
You wouldn’t normally strip with any reflux. You may or may not want to reflux a flavored spirit spirit run. Double distillation pot still would have no reflux.
Cheers!
-j
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Sorry, got hit with a power outage 2hrs ago (nothing new) moments before I was to hit send....
(And no, strips do not involve an RC, its direct drive. (This is where you get to document the top speed of your rig. ) Your choice to take a fores cut or not and how deep you want to strip.
There is no requirement to run it twice. But consider:
The initial (strip run) distillation (~7% -> 30%) separates water from the components we want to keep. The second distillation (spirit run) separates water further and actually compresses those volatiles (30% <--> ~80%), but conveniently presents them in a semi-linear fashion that lets us pick and choose (cuts) the ends which we deem appropriate to discard. A poorly performed spirit run or making less-than-optimal cuts (subjective) can have a tremendous effect on the final spirit's flavor and aroma, but skipping out on the spirit run altogether misses a scale we can use for our personal 'fine tuning'.
Conducting a single run slowly (or 1.5) gets you closer to a double distillation, but in the end, it's whatever you prefer.
.
(And no, strips do not involve an RC, its direct drive. (This is where you get to document the top speed of your rig. ) Your choice to take a fores cut or not and how deep you want to strip.
There is no requirement to run it twice. But consider:
The initial (strip run) distillation (~7% -> 30%) separates water from the components we want to keep. The second distillation (spirit run) separates water further and actually compresses those volatiles (30% <--> ~80%), but conveniently presents them in a semi-linear fashion that lets us pick and choose (cuts) the ends which we deem appropriate to discard. A poorly performed spirit run or making less-than-optimal cuts (subjective) can have a tremendous effect on the final spirit's flavor and aroma, but skipping out on the spirit run altogether misses a scale we can use for our personal 'fine tuning'.
Conducting a single run slowly (or 1.5) gets you closer to a double distillation, but in the end, it's whatever you prefer.
.
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Thanks for answers, y'all. Crystal clear now.
I've been doing both the strip and spirit runs except my first one, i just don't go hard and fast until i get past the pint or so of hearts that i keep. I have all the grain from this batch now ferminting in what was left in the carboys that i didn't distill,(there's a word for it i can't remember) with some sugar and water. I'm gonna crank it up on that run and give it a shot.
I've been doing both the strip and spirit runs except my first one, i just don't go hard and fast until i get past the pint or so of hearts that i keep. I have all the grain from this batch now ferminting in what was left in the carboys that i didn't distill,(there's a word for it i can't remember) with some sugar and water. I'm gonna crank it up on that run and give it a shot.
"To ease the pressures of this world here's the way i got it figured, the thing to do for me and you is to drink lots of good corn liquor"
Buck Owens
Buck Owens
Re: Strip and spirit runs
We don't, but I do it anyway because the first pass tastes like crap compared to the product from the spirit run, plus it's at a better strength for aging etc., plus I'm making my cuts on three or four times the amount of spirit.
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
I guess I'll hold off till next week after i make my next run to do the spirit run so i can have 3+gallons of low wines to run.
Thanks again for explaining it to me
Thanks again for explaining it to me
"To ease the pressures of this world here's the way i got it figured, the thing to do for me and you is to drink lots of good corn liquor"
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
I heated up my still slow, tossed 4oz of heads and cranked the gas up, it was mostly cloudy after the first ½ gallon, ran this down to 30%. It cleared up on the spirit run, yielded 1 gallon, collected down to 100pr. I still have about a gallon of low wines that wouldn't fit in my 5g pot and was contemplating 2nd spirit with all of it.
"To ease the pressures of this world here's the way i got it figured, the thing to do for me and you is to drink lots of good corn liquor"
Buck Owens
Buck Owens
Re: Strip and spirit runs
I have a 5G pot. I fill it with 3.5G and strip until I have a gallon of low wines between 20-30%. My spirit runs are normally 4G of low wines + a half gallon of feints from the previous spirit if its the same recipe. If not, I’ll toss in a half gallon of reserve wash/wort.Corn Cracker wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:16 am I heated up my still slow, tossed 4oz of heads and cranked the gas up, it was mostly cloudy after the first ½ gallon, ran this down to 30%. It cleared up on the spirit run, yielded 1 gallon, collected down to 100pr. I still have about a gallon of low wines that wouldn't fit in my 5g pot and was contemplating 2nd spirit with all of it.
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Iv read about stripping runs. I believe the separation run cannot be higher than 40% abv because of a flash point. I'm very nervous and haven't tried this yet. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Do you meant spirit run ?.......unlikely that you will get accurate answers if you don't use the correct terminolgies for things.
Glossary here ......https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58100
Glossary here ......https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=58100
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Bradster,
The caution re: 40% ABV is to keep the product in the boiler as stable as possible to minimize the potential for fire/explosion. If you are just going to run a single strip and then a sprit run, odds are good that you'll be below 40% to start the spirit run.
When you take your wash (or beer), it will have a ~10% ABV, so no problem there. When you start running your strip with a pot still, heads will come off in the 60% range, depending upon your still design. You should run it until the output from the condensor is 20% or less. But you are collecting into a single vessel.
At this point, the total volume should have an ABV of 40% or less.
You can take that first strip and then do a spirit run, but many of us will strip 3 batches of wash (since you are only getting at max 25% of the volume you started with after the strip) and combine all three for the spirit run in order to end up with more final product. Three batches of 35% just makes a bigger volume of 35%. But good practice is to always check the ABV of your boiler before you start the spirit run. Safety First!
The only time you might have an ABV way above 40% is if you're doing multiple spirit runs. For example, I make a neutral by distilling my product 4X: a number of washes together to make a single strip is 1X. Then I do 3 spirit runs one after another, each one selecting just the middle hearts, and discarding heads and tails. Now my boiler has 60-65% ABV, and I then cut it down with water to under 40%.
The caution re: 40% ABV is to keep the product in the boiler as stable as possible to minimize the potential for fire/explosion. If you are just going to run a single strip and then a sprit run, odds are good that you'll be below 40% to start the spirit run.
When you take your wash (or beer), it will have a ~10% ABV, so no problem there. When you start running your strip with a pot still, heads will come off in the 60% range, depending upon your still design. You should run it until the output from the condensor is 20% or less. But you are collecting into a single vessel.
At this point, the total volume should have an ABV of 40% or less.
You can take that first strip and then do a spirit run, but many of us will strip 3 batches of wash (since you are only getting at max 25% of the volume you started with after the strip) and combine all three for the spirit run in order to end up with more final product. Three batches of 35% just makes a bigger volume of 35%. But good practice is to always check the ABV of your boiler before you start the spirit run. Safety First!
The only time you might have an ABV way above 40% is if you're doing multiple spirit runs. For example, I make a neutral by distilling my product 4X: a number of washes together to make a single strip is 1X. Then I do 3 spirit runs one after another, each one selecting just the middle hearts, and discarding heads and tails. Now my boiler has 60-65% ABV, and I then cut it down with water to under 40%.
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
That's awesome.Wow. Lots of good info here for me. I will try it. Making sure to water down to a safe.level. yes it's all about being safe. Thanks so much.
I drink so much now,on the back of my license it's a list of organs I need.
Re: Strip and spirit runs
hi, im a beginner and also have questions on this topis.
this is my first post in this forum (after my welcome message) and ive read so much and done some runs but still have questions and i hope they arent tooo dumb!
I have an 10L copper still. It has a column thats removable and after using it with the column and doing some reading i decided to take the column off and try it as a pot still. can i add photos here for reference?
I use it on a gas burner which is a little difficult to control temp on but im managing.
when it comes to temperature, Ive read about the different boiling points of acetone, methanol, ethyl acetate, ethanol, 2-propanol, 1-propanol etc
for safety im over cautious and keep the still below 78deg C and discard roughly the first 200m.. i taste it to decide when to stop collecting and get between 100 and 250m on different occasions (and i really dont know why).
When it comes to collecting the ethanol im now trying to be super careful to only collect between 78 and 82 degrees so as not to include the 2-propanol. this is on my stripping run...and it makes my stripping run take hours!
I noticed that i can hold the temperature in this range but once the ABV gets to about 50% the temp wants to climb.
So after trying to hold it and struggling i decided to let it go and collect it separately as Isopropyl.
I noticed after dilution to 40abv i havent really lost much volume compared to other runs even though in the past ive collected down to 30abv.
soo the question... Am i being over careful or is this what everyone usually does?
my friends and i have been drinking the stripping runs diluted to 40abv which tend to come off in the 60abv range. Everyone thinks it tastes great haaahaha but having done more research i definitely want to get better at making a cleaner product.
If question is dumb happy to be directed to reading that i have missed.
ive read this thread and see people saying "hard and fast" stripping runs but does hard and fast still mean keeping it in the 78-82deg C range or is it ok to collect 2-propanol in my stripping run to be cleaned out in the spirit run?
thanks
this is my first post in this forum (after my welcome message) and ive read so much and done some runs but still have questions and i hope they arent tooo dumb!
I have an 10L copper still. It has a column thats removable and after using it with the column and doing some reading i decided to take the column off and try it as a pot still. can i add photos here for reference?
I use it on a gas burner which is a little difficult to control temp on but im managing.
when it comes to temperature, Ive read about the different boiling points of acetone, methanol, ethyl acetate, ethanol, 2-propanol, 1-propanol etc
for safety im over cautious and keep the still below 78deg C and discard roughly the first 200m.. i taste it to decide when to stop collecting and get between 100 and 250m on different occasions (and i really dont know why).
When it comes to collecting the ethanol im now trying to be super careful to only collect between 78 and 82 degrees so as not to include the 2-propanol. this is on my stripping run...and it makes my stripping run take hours!
I noticed that i can hold the temperature in this range but once the ABV gets to about 50% the temp wants to climb.
So after trying to hold it and struggling i decided to let it go and collect it separately as Isopropyl.
I noticed after dilution to 40abv i havent really lost much volume compared to other runs even though in the past ive collected down to 30abv.
soo the question... Am i being over careful or is this what everyone usually does?
my friends and i have been drinking the stripping runs diluted to 40abv which tend to come off in the 60abv range. Everyone thinks it tastes great haaahaha but having done more research i definitely want to get better at making a cleaner product.
If question is dumb happy to be directed to reading that i have missed.
ive read this thread and see people saying "hard and fast" stripping runs but does hard and fast still mean keeping it in the 78-82deg C range or is it ok to collect 2-propanol in my stripping run to be cleaned out in the spirit run?
thanks
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
The short answer is that you can't control the temp of the wash in the boiler......you can only control how much power/ energy you apply to it. Or another way, how hard it boils.
Yes you are over thinking it.
There is a very good link around that I can't access atm, it's by Zumergy Bob.....it explains very well......maybe someone else will post it up for you.
Yes you are over thinking it.
There is a very good link around that I can't access atm, it's by Zumergy Bob.....it explains very well......maybe someone else will post it up for you.
Re: Strip and spirit runs
hey saltbrush bill
thanks for your reply.
yep i get that i can only control how big the flame is on the gas, my still has a thermometer set into the head but i accept that its not exactly reading the temp of the wash... i guess its reading air/ steam temp in the head.
thanks for the note that im over thinking though haha i didnt really over think it in the begginning and was happy just to do a bit of reading and a bit of experimentation and have at it. just wondered if i was slowly poisoning my friends when i read that isopropyl changed phase at 82degrees. guess there might not be tonnes in the wash to start with. having fun with my new hobby. thanks for your advice
thanks for your reply.
yep i get that i can only control how big the flame is on the gas, my still has a thermometer set into the head but i accept that its not exactly reading the temp of the wash... i guess its reading air/ steam temp in the head.
thanks for the note that im over thinking though haha i didnt really over think it in the begginning and was happy just to do a bit of reading and a bit of experimentation and have at it. just wondered if i was slowly poisoning my friends when i read that isopropyl changed phase at 82degrees. guess there might not be tonnes in the wash to start with. having fun with my new hobby. thanks for your advice
Re: Strip and spirit runs
So yeah, don't overthink to much. It's a pretty common thing as the abv decreases the temperature increases. It sought of shows how you can't control a still by temp as the temp will be what it is going to be, pots are very tactile stills run them by sight, touch, taste and smell. All of those compounds may or will be present throughout your run and if they are in your run and you are using a tried and true recipe then they are in everyone's run and you use Kiwis guide to cuts you'll be drinking similar to most, so try not to overthink it.
Good luck
Good luck
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
+1 SporacleSporacle wrote: ↑Sun Dec 26, 2021 5:03 pm So yeah, don't overthink to much. It's a pretty common thing as the abv decreases the temperature increases. It sought of shows how you can't control a still by temp as the temp will be what it is going to be, pots are very tactile stills run them by sight, touch, taste and smell. All of those compounds may or will be present throughout your run and if they are in your run and you are using a tried and true recipe then they are in everyone's run and you use Kiwis guide to cuts you'll be drinking similar to most, so try not to overthink it.
Good luck
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Brilliant!
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Iota ..here is the link that you need to read ~~~~~> http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/Re ... gMyth.html
You really want to get into the Nitty Gritty of it then read 40 or 50 of the threads in this link.
app.php/googlesearch?cx=012980085383122 ... itesearch=
There are more if you use different search parameters.
You really want to get into the Nitty Gritty of it then read 40 or 50 of the threads in this link.
app.php/googlesearch?cx=012980085383122 ... itesearch=
There are more if you use different search parameters.
Re: Strip and spirit runs
Hahaha that magic boiling myth is great thankyou!
And thankyou for the reading list, i read through a lot of the posts in the first thread from this website about why you cant control a still with boiler temperature. Great info! i understand now about the wash being a mixture with its own boiling point that changes as the composition of the mixture changes! im so greatful for this homedistiller forum. its so valuable to have access to all of your knowledge and experience.
And thankyou for the reading list, i read through a lot of the posts in the first thread from this website about why you cant control a still with boiler temperature. Great info! i understand now about the wash being a mixture with its own boiling point that changes as the composition of the mixture changes! im so greatful for this homedistiller forum. its so valuable to have access to all of your knowledge and experience.
Re: Strip and spirit runs
Quick question on low wines. Just finished my first stripping run of 5 gallons of an apple wash. My question is if I end up after my next two stripping runs with 3.5 gallons of low wines at 30% Abv approximately how much of final product should I end up with ? The reason I’m asking is 2 gallons will cover my element by 1/2 inch. I don’t want to put to little in and expose the element during the spirit run.
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
Its math. 30% of 3.5 gallons is 1.05 gallons of ethanol. The rest is water and other stuff. You'll need a little more in the boiler to ensure you dont expose it since you are going to collect about 1.5 gallons on the run.
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
It's simple.
Given an 8 gallon still a strip run takes about 3 hours not including heat up time and a spirit run take about 11-13 hours.
So if you have 20 gallons of wash to distill you can do 2.5 slow spirit runs at 28-33 hours total run time. Or you can do 2 fast strip runs and a spirit run, which is a total run time of like 17-19 hours.
Plus the later method probably allows for better cuts cause a small fores/heads cut as well as a bunch of water can be removed from the initial stripping run.
Given an 8 gallon still a strip run takes about 3 hours not including heat up time and a spirit run take about 11-13 hours.
So if you have 20 gallons of wash to distill you can do 2.5 slow spirit runs at 28-33 hours total run time. Or you can do 2 fast strip runs and a spirit run, which is a total run time of like 17-19 hours.
Plus the later method probably allows for better cuts cause a small fores/heads cut as well as a bunch of water can be removed from the initial stripping run.
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Re: Strip and spirit runs
I too, over analyzed the slow single run process till I finally broke down and did a full double distillation. The double run is long, minimal 5 hours but watching 160 proof drop out for over three hours convinced me this was the only way to fly.
The quality difference is awesome.
The quality difference is awesome.