Just a few questions for the more experienced.

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armor99
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Just a few questions for the more experienced.

Post by armor99 »

Hello everyone,
I am an engineer by trade, so research and reading is something that comes natural for me when starting a new hobby. I had no idea there would be so very much to learn. But I am enjoying the process. My ultimate goal is to produce a nice Irish Whisky that I and some friends can enjoy. Strangely enough, I do not actually drink much, but needed a hobby, and this will occupy my time, and check the "engineering" boxes that I need. :lol:

I have read lots of posts in the forums, and completely binge watched many of the the "Still IT" series on Youtube (Jesse is really great...) It seems to me that I REALLY need to get all of my ducks in a row before I even consider starting. I am in the process of buying equipment, and right now, I am figuring out in order what I will need, and when to do it. Once you start a mash... you are sorta "on the clock" so to speak. Cannot wait for weeks for "oh I forgot that....part". Below are just some of the things I have been thinking about.

1. I have a 10 Gallon brew/ferment pot from Anvil. Great to be able to do both in one container, less chance for contamination that way.

2. I will be using the BIAB method. I can easily see myself missing the mash temp needed, and having to heat up the kettle again. There is a metal insert I can purchase for the inside of the kettle to keep the bag off the bottom (so would not melt it). Can I leave that inside of the kettle while fermenting? Does that hurt anything, or should I fish it out before pitching the yeast, and sealing the kettle for fermenting.

3. The kettle I have, has one of those 90 deg tube bends in it on the inside, so not only can I drain it into my still, I can also decide where it is rotated inside the kettle. I am guessing with the tube straight up, It will leave a gallon? or so in the kettle. I am thinking this would leave enough space on the bottom of the kettle for the yeast and other particulates to fall out of the wash, and settle on the bottom below where the drain tube will pull from? Is this a good way to think about it, or should I just save myself all sorts of problems, and drain with a siphon from the top, and look for a color change in the wash?

4. I fully understand how important cleaning a new still is. I will be using a 5 gallon copper alembic still, and will use citric acid wash, 50/50 water vinegar stripping run, and then a sacrificial alcohol run. I was planning on using the cheapest Vodka I can find. So do I need to use just the Vodka in the still proofed down to less than 40% ABV for safety, or should I do a 50/50 thing again with the Vodka. And for both the vinegar and alcohol run, how much in the boiler should I use to clean a 5 gallon pot? How long should I let each run go?

5. I understand that mash will just not last forever in my fermentor. Are low wines more shelf stable? If I find myself lacking time to do a spirit run, can the low wines sit around for a while in jars waiting for me to run them?

6. With the amount of loss I will have, I am thinking I probably want to aim for a wash total volume of 8 gallons. So two runs of 4 gallons (closer to 3.5, a gallon left on the bottom of the kettle) in the 5 gallon still. And that still leaves me some head room in both the fermentor, and the still. I have been looking and could not find a calculator to figure out how much grain and how much water to yield a wash size of 8 gallons. Could be I was just not seeing it, and probably varies by recipe (grain selection etc.) Have not gotten to the recipe yet.

Thanks so much for the help, I hope these questions were somewhat thoughtful, and not a waste of peoples time.

Armor
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Stonecutter
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Re: Just a few questions for the more experienced.

Post by Stonecutter »

Just by Looking at this heading I can tell I’m not qualified to answer your questions …however

Pics of the still would be great.
Your fermentation protocols will evolve. I know you’re an engineer but Spend as little money as possible in the beginning.
Just proof the vodka down to 40 you’ll be fine no need to go 50/50 you could proof a little below (40) to be safe.
Experience with washing and mashing is the best way to learn. Just by looking through the tried and true recipes you’ll find patterns.
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Oatmeal
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Re: Just a few questions for the more experienced.

Post by Oatmeal »

I had a batch of sweetfeed wait for a year to be run...low wines should last be pretty shelf stable for a while.

Might be educational to ferment out a sugar wash to run as your sacraficial.
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subbrew
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Re: Just a few questions for the more experienced.

Post by subbrew »

2.I assume the bottom screen is good quality stainless (Anvil makes good products). If so you can leave it, it is made of the same thing as the pot you put it in.

3. That "90 degree tube bend" is the exact thing to use. You can open the kettle and drain then rotate the pipe down until you start to see yeast, grain, trube or whatever you don't want in your still.

4. I would dilute the vodka even farther, down to 15% or so. you are just cleaning and the product will start out at 60% or so, plenty to clean. It will be more like what you see in a stripping run so help you to start learning your still.

6. It is common to produce enough mash/wash to do three stripping runs before doing the spirit run. So with a 5 gal still that would be 12 gallons or a bit more to account for loss (if doing on grain ferments, some is left, etc.) At a normal 6 to 9% wash/mash, three stripping runs will give full amount for the spirit run. 8% on 12 gallon is .96 gallon of potential alcohol. If your low wine come out at 25% that is almost 4 gallons of low wines for the spirit run.

I don't know your engineering discipline but once the chemistry and microbiology of the fermentation is done, distilling is mostly just a heat transfer equation. The you get the cuts, that is the art part that makes me scratch my head, not much data.
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NZChris
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Re: Just a few questions for the more experienced.

Post by NZChris »

A fermenter three times the volume of the still is handy as it provides up to four stripping runs worth of wash.

I start with what I want to make, then reverse engineer what I have to do to make it. Part of that process is researching suitable materials for the build. Nearly all of the materials I thought would be ok for seals were advised against by the industrial gasket supplier that did that part of my research for me and that only left me with PTFE, so my build was designed to use PTFE. (My small stills use flour and water paste).
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NZChris
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Re: Just a few questions for the more experienced.

Post by NZChris »

5. They pretty much will if they are airlocked.

If my grain or grape low wines or feints are going to be sitting for a long time, I throw in a toasted, charred, oak domino because it can't hurt and I can.
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Tōtōchtin
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Re: Just a few questions for the more experienced.

Post by Tōtōchtin »

@NZChris putting wood in that low % would it not pull out a higher % of tannins then if you wait, if that flavor does not cross over distilling why do it.
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NZChris
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Re: Just a few questions for the more experienced.

Post by NZChris »

Tōtōchtin wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:33 pm @NZChris putting wood in that low % would it not pull out a higher % of tannins then if you wait, if that flavor does not cross over distilling why do it.
I'm distilling it, not drinking it.

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Re: Just a few questions for the more experienced.

Post by contrahead »

armor99 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 7:25 pm
5. I understand that mash will just not last forever in my fermentor. Are low wines more shelf stable? If I find myself lacking time to do a spirit run, can the low wines sit around for a while in jars waiting for me to run them?
Don't put the cart before the horse. I can see that your all enthusiastic about distilling in particular, but in the bigger picture you first need a wash or mash that contains decent ethanol. Don't blow this off, you might find that achieving happy, consistent ferments was harder than you thought. People that already know how to make beer or wine, have a leg up.

A mash can last for weeks in a fermentor sometimes depending upon your sanitation (and temperature like the cold conditions now). Keep the bacteria away. You can move an undistilled ferment from the fermentor and store the liquid in sanitized plastic jugs for a couple weeks if you want. Just make sure and keep an eye on the jugs; if they swell up then loosen the caps and bleed off the pressure. Low wines have a decent and forgiving term of shelf-life.
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