perceptions

Little or nothing to do with distillation.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
Amadeus

perceptions

Post by Amadeus » Mon Jul 11, 2005 11:55 pm

i posted something that was called

something intentionally inflamitory,

isn't it all about perception to ones own beleifs / what is and what is not right or wrong?

one thing that gets me is that people tend to see one side of things and never see both sides contrary to their own beleifs or parental or society conditioning....how about breaking free of those learned patterns and start thinking and beleiving for yourself?

one can see suicide bombers and the likes of as freedom fighters or terrorist, how about the forces?? are they freedom fighters or terrorist whats so different about killing somebody because you don't like their beleifs or soceity? (besides the suicide)

both sides have killed numerous civillians one side more than the other so who is really the terrorist?

LeftLaneCruiser
Swill Maker
Posts: 230
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:11 am
Location: Fryslân

Post by LeftLaneCruiser » Tue Jul 12, 2005 3:47 am

No matter if we are with you or against you, but we all made a gentlemans agree that there will be NO politics discussed in these forums.

These forums are ONLY for the discussions about distilling and thing related to that. For all other topics ther are so much better places to go.

These forums are a quite anarchistic and very open community where people from a lot of different countries and with very different backgrounds can freely talk about their hobby. Let's keep it that way.

KJH

Brett
Swill Maker
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:31 am

Post by Brett » Tue Jul 12, 2005 4:01 am

Amadeus i asked the thread to be closed myself because i didnt want it to go into politics, when it comes to politics everyone has there own beliefs n they are entitled to them, rule on this bord is NO POLITICS as was clearly stated in that thread, the thread was there to pass on condolences n thoughts to those affected by what happened in london n only for that, in times of crises my thoughts go to anyone affected by it,, But it seems u are a political stirer, keep ya trap shut on politics, if u dont want to pass on ur condolences n thoughts then pls stfu.

Also id like to appologise if i broke the politics rule by posting that thread, i guess i was wrong to think people could offer thoughts n condolences to those involved without diversing into politics.

Lets just leave it be n get back to the good stuff of sittin round the still sippin our brews

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:02 am

LeftLaneCruiser wrote: These forums are ONLY for the discussions about distilling and thing related to that. For all other topics ther are so much better places to go.
KJH
but this is a off topic discussion??

Brett wrote:But it seems u are a political stirer, keep ya trap shut on politics, if u dont want to pass on ur condolences n thoughts then pls stfu.
not a political stirer more of a philospher hoping to see that others see that there is more than one side to every situation.

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:42 am

Well Brett;

If it's good enough for you to be "political" then it's good enough for everyone else.

By political I refer to your ANGLO SAXON WHITE BIAS .

I too have empathy for ALL people who find themselves the victims of the greed and averice of others.

But I don't see you making any postings about the Sudanees, Palistinians Iraquis or any other race; so take your racist bent and shove it dear friend.

But; take care, you don't hurt yourself.

KatoFong
Swill Maker
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:53 am
Location: Brooklyn

Post by KatoFong » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:49 am

I smell troll.

User avatar
Tater
Admin
Posts: 8976
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:19 am
Location: occupied south

Post by Tater » Tue Jul 12, 2005 5:54 am

lets drop this .
I use a pot still.Sometimes with a thumper

Brett
Swill Maker
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:31 am

Post by Brett » Tue Jul 12, 2005 7:46 am

mr guest

if i had been a member of this forum during the times tradegys were reported anywhere i would have offered my condolences n sympathys, no matter what race or religion? u seem to confuse racist n religion quite well. but being as i have no quarral to any race or religion and i have many friends of all races n religions u can call me what u like.

any further trolls will not draw me to reply.

just look in the mirror n keep telling urself

" i am the most beautifull princess, i am the most beautifull princess, i am the most beautifull princess"

Amadeus

Post by Amadeus » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:48 am

Anonymous wrote:Well Brett;

If it's good enough for you to be "political" then it's good enough for everyone else.

By political I refer to your ANGLO SAXON WHITE BIAS .

I too have empathy for ALL people who find themselves the victims of the greed and averice of others.

But I don't see you making any postings about the Sudanees, Palistinians Iraquis or any other race; so take your racist bent and shove it dear friend.

But; take care, you don't hurt yourself.
just because a person doesn't make posts about other races doesn't make them a racist.
you say that you have empathy for all people while i find this condradictory.

can we please get back onto the orginal topic here please.

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jul 12, 2005 8:57 am

i read over both posts and i cant see where Brett has been racist?

he even points out
f i had been a member of this forum during the times tradegys were reported anywhere i would have offered my condolences n sympathys, no matter what race or religion?
and i can only see where he has asked for politics to be kept out of it and tried to keep it polite.

Guest

Post by Guest » Tue Jul 12, 2005 11:18 pm

Bret;

You have been a member for at least a day;
During the last 24 hours 30,00 people in third world countries have died due to either the actions or non actions of the west. (united nation figures)

10,000 of those have been children who have died through hunger or the fact they don't have clean drinking water.

The withholding of retro viral drugs by first world nations, because they have a patent on them and demand a profit which the sufferer in a third world nation can not afford as they may only have an annual income of $10.00; I see as terrorist behaviour of those phamacutical giants.

You might know and have lots of friends of various races and creeds, but I bet they all live in your first world cosy little country and have incomes and life styles akin to yours.

Sorry but they do not rate in the equation of which I am speaking.

You only see the "terror" when it is on your front step. The fact that 4 guys with $50 worth of explosives can unsettle your comfortable little existence and make a mokery of the billions of dollars worth of armument and defence that the first world sets itself up with must really rile the west.

So yes I do see your comments as racist based. You by your own admision do not see the things of which I speak, otherwise you would have posted, offering your condolences to the parents of those 10,000 children.

So now you have all had your little knee jerk reaction at my comments and justified your indifference, I bid you all farewell.

The Chemist
Trainee
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:29 pm
Location: Louisiana

Post by The Chemist » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:11 am

guest, I'm sorry that you think we're so horrible. Honestly, we dont try to be. For years we've tried to stay out of other states' business, but it just doesn't work. I think if the rest of the world hates us so much, they should quit taking our money, quit selling us their oil, mind their own business and tale care of their own people.
Purposeful motion, for one so insane...

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Jul 13, 2005 12:53 am

OK chemist, I'll play your game just alittle longer.

My friend I'm assuming you are an American. I have visited your country and found it a delightfull place and enjoyed the people I have met there.

How ever your statements are a little off the mark. I see no evidence of your country trying to keep out of other states business. Take the current invasion, "weapons of mass destructions', didn't exist

The rest of the world does not take your money. firstly, if Japan and China were to call on their current holdings of US bonds, you don't have the liquidity to pay. you would default and be bankrupt.

Secondally if you read the book referred to earlier you will be come aware of the deceit used by your country to entice third world countries in to accepting your "loans" and the debt spiral they then can't escape.

"Selling you Oil". do some research and find out the true facts how the US has controlled the Arab oil empires.

"Mind their own business, and take care of their own" my friend I assure you they would love to, but the debt cycle prevents it.

How do you think the West has such a high standard of living, if it is not by the degredation of the lives and enviroment of third world countries.

The Chemist
Trainee
Posts: 966
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 1:29 pm
Location: Louisiana

Post by The Chemist » Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:18 am

Touche, Anon. Perhaps you know what you're saying. Pesonally, I don't agree with what "my" president is doing. I wish we could get rid of him today. But freedom comes with a price, and many don't seem willing to pay it. If those who want to fight would stand up and do it, not hide in schools, mosques, and behind women,--maybe they would have enough honor to talk to.

I'm done, unless you want to PM me.
Purposeful motion, for one so insane...

amadeus

Post by amadeus » Wed Jul 13, 2005 1:54 am

Anonymous wrote:OK chemist, I'll play your game just alittle longer.

My friend I'm assuming you are an American. I have visited your country and found it a delightfull place and enjoyed the people I have met there.

How ever your statements are a little off the mark. I see no evidence of your country trying to keep out of other states business. Take the current invasion, "weapons of mass destructions', didn't exist

The rest of the world does not take your money. firstly, if Japan and China were to call on their current holdings of US bonds, you don't have the liquidity to pay. you would default and be bankrupt.

Secondally if you read the book referred to earlier you will be come aware of the deceit used by your country to entice third world countries in to accepting your "loans" and the debt spiral they then can't escape.

"Selling you Oil". do some research and find out the true facts how the US has controlled the Arab oil empires.

"Mind their own business, and take care of their own" my friend I assure you they would love to, but the debt cycle prevents it.

How do you think the West has such a high standard of living, if it is not by the degredation of the lives and enviroment of third world countries.
guest how do you know that all those facts are true or not just properganda?
the statement you have just said looks pretty biased, there are things that all countries around the world can do but won't because out of fear of what others might do.
if we all as in our countries started to take responsbilities for their own actions and instead of blaming others we would be heading in the right direction.

Guest

Post by Guest » Wed Jul 13, 2005 2:31 am

The Chemist wrote:Touche, Anon. Perhaps you know what you're saying. Pesonally, I don't agree with what "my" president is doing. I wish we could get rid of him today. But freedom comes with a price, and many don't seem willing to pay it. If those who want to fight would stand up and do it, not hide in schools, mosques, and behind women,--maybe they would have enough honor to talk to.

I'm done, unless you want to PM me.

AMEN

Brett
Swill Maker
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:31 am

Post by Brett » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:05 am

Tell me guest if ur so high n mighty, what are u doing to help these third world countrys? other than being analy retentive and calling people u dont have a clue about racist.

I actually give money to registered charitys to help people (including children) in third world countrys and they take a regular donation straight from my bank account every month.

Sure i could do more, maybe i could fly out there, set up a tent n give them all the food n medicine i can get my hands on, but at the same time i have my own life to live and a job i must go to, if i dont work how can i keep paying to the charitys, maybe in ur little world money grows on tree's, but if u wake up u will see most people must work for a living to be able to just about support there own familys and children.

amadeus

Post by amadeus » Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:12 am

Brett wrote: Sure i could do more, maybe i could fly out there, set up a tent n give them all the food n medicine i can get my hands on, but at the same time i have my own life to live and a job i must go to, if i dont work how can i keep paying to the charitys, maybe in ur little world money grows on tree's, but if u wake up u will see most people must work for a living to be able to just about support there own familys and children.
thats right you have to help yourself before you can help others

AkCoyote
Swill Maker
Posts: 223
Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:49 pm
Location: Alaska USA

Post by AkCoyote » Sat Jul 16, 2005 1:34 pm

After reading the last 'non-political' thread and now this, I'm compelled to add my 2cents worth.

I'm an American and proud to be so. My ancestors were here in 1737 and fought in the Revolutionary War as well as many wars to follow.

The United States is far from a perfect country but we are the longest lived Representative Republic to ever exist. Our freedoms are guaranteed, not granted, by our Constitution and many have fled the tyrany of there own countries to seek the freedoms and opportunities that this country has to offer.

As a nation, we have given more in lives and money than could ever be re-paid. And for what? We give billions to third world countries only to have it siphoned off by corrupt regimes. When ever there is a major disaster, we are the first to send aide. When a disaster strikes this country, many in the world cheer, as if we are getting what we deserve. For all of the money that we have sent to the middle east, muslims danced in the streets as the twin towers fell.

The current war against Islamic fanatics won't be over in any of our lifetimes and is the greatest threat to ever confront mankind. It's not just America that they want to destroy, but our entire western civilization as we know it. The Koran is filled with passages about killing the 'infidels' and other non-believers and this is precisely what they aim to do. And for those of you who have not yet been attacked? Rest assured that your time is coming. It's only a matter of time.

As I said earlier, we are not a perfect nation nor a perfect people. What we ARE however, is the one power on earth that acts as the anchor and provides stability for the rest. So be very careful of what you wish or ask for. For if we go down, the rest of you will surely follow.

AkCoyote

ginzo
Bootlegger
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:09 am
Location: Florida

Post by ginzo » Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:10 pm

The Chemist wrote:Touche, Anon. Perhaps you know what you're saying. Pesonally, I don't agree with what "my" president is doing. I wish we could get rid of him today. But freedom comes with a price, and many don't seem willing to pay it. If those who want to fight would stand up and do it, not hide in schools, mosques, and behind women,--maybe they would have enough honor to talk to.

I'm done, unless you want to PM me.
I am sorry, Chemist, but what you just wrote makes no sense. It's feel-food "kick-ass" country-music jargon, but it means nothing.

What you basically tried to say before was "beggers can't be choosers". Real easy to say when you are lucky enough to live in a country that doesn't have to beg/

That being said, the United States is one of the least generous nations in the world. Our bydget for foreign aid is 1/10 of 1 percent of our annual federal budget. Other countries with less to give give much more than we do (Italy is a good example).
Do not speak- unless it improves on silence.

Guest

Amadeus

Post by Guest » Sat Jul 16, 2005 7:15 pm

i find it funny that people think that they live in a free country that is still bound by rules and restrictions if it were truely that you were a free country there would be no need for rules and the likes of. everybody would be living in harmony and such as, everybody taking responsibility for their own actions and desicions.

also was the world more stable pre-american times? there is also the possibility if america falls the world would become even more stable.

nobody ever ask america to butt in on others issues the impede themself on other countries and beleifs.

my sister often says
"deffinition of insanity is repeating the same choices and desicions and expecting a different outcome."

i am not anti american and not for islamic culture but what i am is a peaceful person and hope to see the day that everybody can live without large scale fighting, or even fighting in our own countries, to see countries living in harmony, but doubt that will happen anytime soon.

Brett
Swill Maker
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:31 am

Post by Brett » Sun Jul 17, 2005 3:57 am

i am not anti american and not for islamic culture but what i am is a peaceful person and hope to see the day that everybody can live without large scale fighting, or even fighting in our own countries, to see countries living in harmony, but doubt that will happen anytime soon.
]


AMEN to that, i am not anti anything only anti-war, peace is what we all want :D

Unfortunatly i dont believe that anyone will ever live in a truly free country, we will always have someone telling us the rules and what to do as this is human nature, there is always someone that will struggle and fight and try to lead people for there own gain, power n greed. Imagine the difference if when all these leaders that want war had to go to war themselves, u think there would be so much fighting. Better still if they want to pick a fight they should do it direct (leader to leader) iv always thought of war as playground tactics, they send there little army to do there bad work, shame we cant make a new rule, u pick a fight u finish it urself n leave everyone else out of it, The world would be a more peacefull place.

ginzo
Bootlegger
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:09 am
Location: Florida

Post by ginzo » Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:47 am

You'll find that all wars are about business.
Do not speak- unless it improves on silence.

Brett
Swill Maker
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:31 am

Post by Brett » Sun Jul 17, 2005 7:10 am

wars are for politics n religion

KatoFong
Swill Maker
Posts: 466
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:53 am
Location: Brooklyn

Post by KatoFong » Sun Jul 17, 2005 9:16 am

"It's capitalism!"
"It's politics!"

Stop! You're both right. War is about power. About people who don't have it wanting more. Or people who do have it trying to keep it. Or some weird bastard child of the two where someone with power just wants more. Sometimes power takes the form of money. Sometimes it takes the form of religious dogma. Sometimes it's land and sometimes it's regime change. But it always deals with power, power, and more power.

Ever get the impression that this thread has become a place for people to say to each other the things they really want to say, but have been avoiding talking about because of ettiquette? I, for one, am glad for this thread's existence--even here--because it's obviously on everyone's mind and, as long as we keep things civil, open discourse is the only thing that's going to make this world better. Might as well happen here, too. Just keep it civil, folks. And keep the snide, the sarcastic, and the self-righteous down to a minimum.

ginzo
Bootlegger
Posts: 106
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:09 am
Location: Florida

Post by ginzo » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:45 am

Brett wrote:wars are for politics n religion
That's really the simple answer. The fact is, that money (and conversley land and power) is at the root of all wars.
Do not speak- unless it improves on silence.

Brett
Swill Maker
Posts: 381
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 6:31 am

Post by Brett » Sun Jul 17, 2005 10:51 am

true

level Joe
Swill Maker
Posts: 216
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 3:26 pm
Location: By the Great Lakes

Post by level Joe » Sun Jul 17, 2005 6:17 pm

Can we teach a lion to eat grass?
The Garden of Eden is long gone.
Is it power or survival or something deeper?
If it wasn’t for the life and death of the men and women before us, none of us would even be talking. Doing right and wrong and the inability to always know the difference is the price we pay to be human, bar none.
Salus populi suprema est lex. [L.] The safety of the people is the highest law.

rkidtech
Novice
Posts: 67
Joined: Sun May 08, 2005 12:20 am

Freedom

Post by rkidtech » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:54 am

Hi Brett,
Freedom is a relative thing. Someone like Grizzly Adams who struck out into the wilds of frontier America had true freedom, or about as close as anyone is ever going to get to real freedom.
But he still had to eat so that entailed having to hunt and follow certain rules and regulations in order to obtain food. Certain set procedures had to be followed in order to stay alive. This was mandatory when I did my jungle survival training. So ok these are self imposed rules but at the end of the day they are still rules.
When Grizzly Adams came out of the wilderness he adhered to basic rules of society in order to interact with them, bartering for basic things he needed i.e. the latest practical guns that he could afford, gun powder, salt, coffee, etc.
If you don’t following basic rules and set down procedures of society in the country you live, you get into trouble real quick.
Britain and America are not perfect democracies by any means but in the world as a whole they are as close as any country are gonna get. What other countries in the world can you set up your own religion, slag off the current ruling party, tell your head of state publicly that he stinks and is running things all wrong and they can still leaves the building in one piece (maybe not the flavour of the week but still be alive.
There was a case recently where a royal navy seaman while still in the navy who was a Satanist and took the navy to court saying the navy stopped him practicing his religion and won his case and was allowed to continue his religion on board ship. In a less tolerant country the same guy would be put to death straight away.
So ok we may not be perfect. But if some one wants to play chicken on the railway crossing that’s his choice. As long as they don’t impinge on the rest of society and as democracies he can and has the choice to do it.
As I say freedom is a relative thing. Someone’s freedom is someone else’s’ heresy. Scruples are what we all know to be right in the far recesses of our brains. I have always told my two adult daughters. Never take, or do things to the extreme and that the rules of society may not be perfect but they are as close in law to your own scruples as you are going to get.
So live as free as you can and don’t get caught. So as the pointy eared Vulcan says “live long, drink the pure stuff and prosper. (I think that’s right, well I think it should be right)

Geoff

Post Reply