Canadian Moonshiners Unite!

Nichevo · Post by **Nichevo** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:13 pm

Just wondering how many fellow Canadians are around.

As a sided note:
I wrote a letter to my MP regarding the legalization of home distilling for personal use. An assistant replied asking for my name and address to confirm I was writing to the right MP. I didn't respond. I have moved from the Prairies to Toronto now, but I want to try again. I figure if a few people write letters it may help to legitimize things.

It is probably a pie in the sky idea, the govt makes way too much money from taxing booze here to give up even a portion of their golden hen, but it may be worth a shot. If New Zealand(commonwealth?) does it I don't see why it would be impossible here.

stillman · Post by **stillman** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:35 pm

It would be nice but I doubt it. My father started me on stillin' and I know a guy that works in a distillery( to be left unnamed). When I started, even my friend at the distillery freaked out. "your are going to go blind and blow your house up". This is the level of ignorance of the general public in Canada. They all talk about trying homemade hooch but few ever have. Canadians in general are sheep to the government and pay taxes for the warm fuzzy comfort feeling.

Nichevo · Post by **Nichevo** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:14 pm

All right who the hell voted for the temperance society! It was a JOKE OPTION PEOPLE!!!

crackher · Post by **crackher** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 10:29 am

No temperance of any kind here!!!!

We just need more Gun and we will have this problem sloved right away

knuklehead · Post by **knuklehead** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:44 pm

I think in time the law will fade away. We have already legalized medicinal marijuana and gay marriage in some places. This law is written but mostly not enforced. I get supplies form a legal operating business that is called "Moonshiner Unlimited" He's got a warehouse full of stills and even has moonshine in a fridge in his show room for samples. I asked if he'd ever had problems with the police, he said nope they do drop by but only when they need supplies. Apparently he'd sold a couple of stills to some police.
I didn't vote in your poll. "vote for NDP, apparently all your options where jokes.

possum · Post by **possum** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:17 am

As a non-canadian, I'm currious about canadian politics, and am reading up on current stuff. With Block Quebeck Party's succesionest stance, where do they stand on legalizing homedistilling for Quebeck ?

Is there a national party with similar stance to USA's Libertarian Party?

It seems with Canada's unitary(parliment based) government, changes could be implemented in Canada faster than in the USA's more clumsy government aparatus, if there was enough popular support.

Thanks

canadianmoonshiner · Post by **canadianmoonshiner** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 12:03 pm

We should get Bob Sebert to run for MP. I would move to his riding just so I could vote for him. All it would take is a few sympathetic fellow MP's to allow him to sneak some legislation inside another bill. Just need to repeal or reword a few paragraphs of existing laws. I have done a lot of reading of the Exise Tax Law and it is contradictory. You can posess a still & use it so long as it is under 23L and registered. Can't sell/barter.. for personal use only. Problem is... how do you register a still without getting 'busted' by the RCMP?

stillman · Post by **stillman** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 3:18 pm

Heh CanadianMoonshiner,

Could you point me in the direction of the article regarding the Excise Tax Law. Just did a lot of searching of the net and it goes in circles.

I did find this link though. The story at the end is pretty funny.

http://www.mackenzieinstitute.com/1997/ ... cohol.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I'm just curious as to how illegal it is and if a certain size still is legal what would the details be.

knuklehead · Post by **knuklehead** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:03 pm

I'd like to see that link to CM. I have read the act and it said "no person shall posses a still" plain and simple. Doesn't make any sense though because you can go to Canadian tire and buy a water distiller anytime you want......then you "posses a still", lol. Can you post a link CM?

canadianmoonshiner · Post by **canadianmoonshiner** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 7:21 pm

Consolidated Statutes and Regulations
Main page on: Excise Act
Disclaimer: These documents are not the official versions (more).
Source: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/E-14/52513.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Updated to August 31, 2004

Part II Distilleries

License fee for a chemical still: 134. (1) Subject to subsection (2), a person to whom a licence to import, manufacture, possess and use a chemical still is granted shall pay to the collector of the district or excise division in which the still is situated a licence fee prescribed by the regulations.

Exception: (2) Any person importing, manufacturing, possessing and using a chemical still, the measured content of which does not exceed twenty-three litres (23 L), or any bona fide public hospital duly certified as such by the Department of Health importing, manufacturing, possessing and using a chemical still of any capacity, may, on registering the still at the office of the collector of the district or excise division in which it is situated, be permitted to import, manufacture, possess and use the still without payment of a licence fee or the giving of a bond, but the importation, manufacture, possession or use of the still without registration shall be deemed an importing, manufacturing, possessing or using of a still contrary to this Act.R.S., 1985, c. E-14, s. 134; 1999, c. 31, s. 83.

Prohibition
s 61
19. A person is prohibited from possessing a still or other equipment suitable for the production of spirits with the intent of producing spirits unless the person:
(a) possesses a spirits licence;
(b) has a pending application for a spirits licence; or
(c) [possesses the still or equipment solely for the purpose of producing spirits for the purpose or as a consequence of the analysis of the composition of a substance containing absolute ethyl alcohol.]
Meaning of “pending application”
para 61(b)
20. To be considered to have an application pending, a person must have submitted to the CCRA all information and documentation required to obtain a spirits licence. This includes a fully completed application form L63, Licence and Registration Application Excise Act, 2001, a list of premises to be covered by the licence, and the required security in a form acceptable to the CCRA.
No intent to produce spirits
21. It is not prohibited to possess a still, whether chemical or not, that is to be used for purposes other than the production of spirits, such as the purification of water. There is no licence or registration required under the Act to possess a still for uses other than the production of spirits.

Meaning of “spirits”
s 2

5. “Spirits” means any material or substance containing more than 0.5% absolute ethyl alcohol by volume, excluding wine, beer, vinegar, denatured alcohol, specially denatured alcohol, [fusel oil or other refuse produced as a result of the distillation process] or an approved formulation. Any product containing or manufactured from beer, vinegar, denatured alcohol, specially denatured alcohol, [fusel oil or other refuse produced as a result of the distillation process] or an approved formulation that cannot be consumed as a beverage is also excluded from the definition of spirits.

Hope this helps... section 134(2) is the one that has me confused... I've even downloaded all the forms available but they are all related to the commercial production of spirits. I've found nothing about what is required to register a still. Other than contact info for the CCRA officer responsible for registrations:

c/o Excise Duty Manager
9737 King George Highway, 5th floor
P.O. Box 9070, Station Main
Surrey BC V3T 5W6
Phone: (604) 587-2100
Fax: (604) 587-2162

stillman · Post by **stillman** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:51 am

Hi CM,

This is on the same website. I did access it through your link. In the Excise section.

After reading alot of the Excise stuff, it is pretty clear that you cannot have a still for anything but water. I'll have to figure out how to stop contaminating my water with all that fermented sugar.

OOps So sorry! The good thing is the max is a $500 fine. That's at the bottom.

Here's the link
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/E-14/186496.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

94. Every person carrying on any business subject to excise, or having in his possession or on his premises any machinery, tools, utensils, apparatus or appliances suitable for carrying on any business subject to excise, who

(a) neglects, refuses or omits to make a true and correct return and entry at the time and in the manner required by this Act, or at any time when specially required to do so under the provisions of this Act, of all workshops, apartments, utensils, tools, apparatus, machinery or appliances possessed, occupied or used by or for him, or existing in or introduced into or intended to be used in the premises in which the business is or might be carried on,

(b) makes use of any still, worm, fermenting-tun, mash-tub, tobacco-press, cutting machine, vessel, utensil, closed spirit-receiver, fixed or movable pipe, cock, pump or other appliance or apparatus, or permits any appliance or apparatus to be used in his distillery, brewery, tobacco manufactory, cigar manufactory or bonded manufactory, or other premises subject to excise, which, or any of which, have not been known or reported to the proper officer prior to being so used,

(c) makes any changes therein or additions thereto without duly notifying the collector,

(d) makes, causes to be made or permits to exist any secret, covert or unusual connection or communication between the several parts or compartments of the premises in which the business is carried on, other than as shown on the return or plan made thereof,

(e) allows any pipes, pumps, cocks, conduits, troughs or other means for conducting fluids or other matter from one part of the premises to another or from one vessel to another, other than those that are clearly indicated and made known on the returns, models, diagrams or entries made of the premises or vessels, or other than have been made known to the collector or other than are permitted to be used by this Act,

(f) permits any apparatus, utensils, vessels, pipes, store-rooms or compartments of the premises to be used or occupied otherwise than for the purpose for which they have been entered or returned,

(g) neglects or refuses to designate in the manner required by this Act the contents or capacity of, and the purpose to which, each vessel, utensil, apparatus, pipe, conduit, store-room, workshop or compartment of the premises is applied,

(h) refuses to admit the collector or other officer or his assistants to the premises where any business subject to excise is carried on, at any hour of the day or night when the business is being carried on, or when any act or thing connected with the carrying on of the business is being performed therein,

(i) refuses to admit any officer to inspect any place or premises where any material, utensil or apparatus suitable for carrying on any business subject to excise is placed or deposited, or

(j) does or causes or permits to be done anything, in or about the premises in which the business is carried on, that is intended or likely to mislead any officer in the discharge of his duty or to prevent him from ascertaining the true quantity of the products of the business carried on therein,

shall, for a first offence, incur a fine of not more than five hundred dollars and not less than two hundred dollars, and for each subsequent offence a fine not exceeding five hundred dollars and, for any offence, first or subsequent, a further fine not exceeding one hundred dollars for each and every day on which the offence is committed.

R.S., c. E-12, s. 92.

decoy · Post by **decoy** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:35 pm

crackher wrote: No temperance of any kind here!!!!

We just need more Gun and we will have this problem sloved right away

That is the kind of comments that enforces the goverments view that rednecks with guns make shine, and when a coment like that gets in the papper multiply the government view by 1000+ times...

then the distilleries get on the bandwagon with it will kill you and make you go blind and sterile and the whole situation is set back another 10-20 years..

knucklehead has hit the nail on the head.. it will just take time.

I think in time the law will fade away. We have already legalized medicinal marijuana and gay marriage in some places. This law is written but mostly not enforced. I get supplies form a legal operating business that is called "Moonshiner Unlimited" He's got a warehouse full of stills and even has moonshine in a fridge in his show room for samples. I asked if he'd ever had problems with the police, he said nope they do drop by but only when they need supplies. Apparently he'd sold a couple of stills to some police.
I didn't vote in your poll. "vote for NDP, apparently all your options where jokes.

here in Australia i belive its against the law to own a still larger then 5L or somthing but i have never heard of anybody being convicted.

we just need to introduce it to more people secretly and as the numbers grow eventualy one or more of these people will get into power and be more and more tolerant till it becomes leagal for personal use.

cheers..

stoker · Post by **stoker** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 10:01 am

start up a trade with the americans in guns for your 'coup d'état'
it's the most logical way, as the state is a pain in the ass of the homedistiller

i have no problem with being illegal, (if i never get caught)

canadianmoonshiner · Post by **canadianmoonshiner** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 11:41 am

True, but the state also provides (with my tax money) reasonable comfort to sit at home & do this stuff. ie. Law enforcement provides a deterrent to anyone wanting to take what I have, even though it is done under their noses. I am not completely lawless... I obey the good laws. For me its a question of ethics & morality not law.

stoker · Post by **stoker** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:15 am

BUSTED

a man with a semi large still is busted
(click on the link, on that site, for the whole text)

stoker

Nichevo · Post by **Nichevo** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:48 am

I finally understand now, you temperance voters get all the chicks!

Those ladies have nothing to worry about, I have to say that it would take a damn near lethal dose of liquor to get my lips on those beauties.

TEC · Post by **TEC** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:27 pm

Nichevo,

That picture looks closer to a circus side show than a group of ladies.

rectifier · Post by **rectifier** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:58 pm

Option 6: Everyone will end up distilling or buying from a friend, but the government will never catch on enough to legalise it. Call it "the marijuana option".

Distilling is not likely to be legalised anytime soon. Tax revenues that jack up a $2 vodka to $28 are worth far too much to our government, and I only expect it to get worse in the short term.

In Victoria where I went to university for a few years they recently passed a law mandating minimum prices ($3/alcohol unit = 1 shot or beer) in bars, to discourage people from getting drunk downitown.
The effect - excessive predrinking has people already hammered while waiting in line to get in, they buy maybe 1 drink in the bar, less fun for them, less profit for the bar, sad faces all around.

On the plus side I haven't met anyone who wasn't interested in trying homemade liquor, short of those who don't drink at all. The only thing is that when asked, most of these people wouldn't think of making their own because "they aren't smart enough" or "are scared of methanol".

I have met a total of 4 other distillers at parties now, which isn't bad. Like me though, they all had a chemistry background. If only people could be told that the chemistry knowledge involved in actually running a still is negligible...

Post by **Tater** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 6:01 pm

Fokes in old days made it simply by knowing if ya do this ya get that.

rectifier · Post by **rectifier** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 7:00 pm

Exactly what I'm getting at. I try to tell people it's a simple process you can follow, boil it, throw this out, drink that and toss the rest, but they just say stuff like "Simple to you, you're a chemist".

Perhaps they are just lazy and would rather drink my booze than make their own.

TEC · Post by **TEC** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:39 pm

I think you're on to something Rectifier, easier to drink yours...

Also, you really need to enjoy this as a hobby otherwise it is much simpler to just run to the liquor store.

FireH20 · Post by **FireH20** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:08 am

stoker wrote:BUSTED
a man with a semi large still is busted

Aw, some of the agents got their clothes dirty.

The article sort of answered a question I asked in another topic, about fermenting in an Igloo cooler http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1912 This guy didn't just ferment in them, he stored his liquor in them!

Post by **golden pond** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:11 am

tater wrote:Fokes in old days made it simply by knowing if ya do this ya get that.

Tater, almost sounds like you're talking about me

And yes that pretty much is me, I know what works and don't work but don't know how or why and sure don't know how to explain some of it. I sure been learning alot about the hows and whys since I came on these forums but still sticking with the way I make mine.

Post by **Tater** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:12 pm

And myself as well along with my dad grand pa and so on with rest of the kin who made it . Went to refrigeration school in mid 70ds and when they got to condensing part of an ac it clicked and I then learned the theroy.And like you GP when i first found this sight 4 years ago i went and tryed thermostats and checked temp.And then went back to doing it like I was showed.Except for the hydrometer I can read a bead but hydrometer is easy.Sorry about getting off topic of post

possum · Post by **possum** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:39 pm

I might not be Canadian, but I know a pretty face when I see one. Maybee I should join the temperance society. Hubba Hubba. As you can see from my Avatar/symbol/portraite, I am a handsome fellow. The children I could sire among the temperance society would be just too beautiful for words.

But seriously, I recognise one of those ladies. I belive the lady on the right was a famous hachet wielding tavern destroyer. I forget her name, but I belive she was a U.S. citizen.

madman01 · Post by **madman01** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:42 pm

im 100% canadian born timmins ont now reside london starting on my own still project

Seanjohn19 · Post by **Seanjohn19** » Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:55 pm

stillman wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:35 pm It would be nice but I doubt it. My father started me on stillin' and I know a guy that works in a distillery( to be left unnamed). When I started, even my friend at the distillery freaked out. "your are going to go blind and blow your house up". This is the level of ignorance of the general public in Canada. They all talk about trying homemade hooch but few ever have. Canadians in general are sheep to the government and pay taxes for the warm fuzzy comfort feeling.

I couldn't have said it better

tiramisu · Post by **tiramisu** » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:02 am

I think the real problem with any law change is that the number of people that would actually care is so low that there would be no one to take the bill forward to parliament and no motivation to vote for or against it. If the change was rolled up in some kind of omnibus bill it might pass but who has the interest in moving something like this forward? If there actually was a debate then zoning, safety, inspection, etc etc for small business and for personal consumption then the big alcohol companies that have people on payroll to fight against you making your own alcohol would jump in and come up with a hundred reasons why it is a terrible idea.

Post by **Expat** » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:11 am

tiramisu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:02 am I think the real problem with any law change is that the number of people that would actually care is so low that there would be no one to take the bill forward to parliament and no motivation to vote for or against it. If the change was rolled up in some kind of omnibus bill it might pass but who has the interest in moving something like this forward? If there actually was a debate then zoning, safety, inspection, etc etc for small business and for personal consumption then the big alcohol companies that have people on payroll to fight against you making your own alcohol would jump in and come up with a hundred reasons why it is a terrible idea.

Correct on the first part, the number of people who want to do it is Low. I think you're incorrect about the second part, ALL the politicians (except for those with a libertarian leanings...perhaps) would vote against it because of the MASSIVE tax revenues generated by liquor sales monopoly. No government ever created that actually wants to lower its tax base...

tiramisu · Post by **tiramisu** » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:40 am

Expat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:11 am
tiramisu wrote: ↑Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:02 am I think the real problem with any law change is that the number of people that would actually care is so low that there would be no one to take the bill forward to parliament and no motivation to vote for or against it. If the change was rolled up in some kind of omnibus bill it might pass but who has the interest in moving something like this forward? If there actually was a debate then zoning, safety, inspection, etc etc for small business and for personal consumption then the big alcohol companies that have people on payroll to fight against you making your own alcohol would jump in and come up with a hundred reasons why it is a terrible idea.
Correct on the first part, the number of people who want to do it is Low. I think you're incorrect about the second part, ALL the politicians (except for those with a libertarian leanings...perhaps) would vote against it because of the MASSIVE tax revenues generated by liquor sales monopoly. No government ever created that actually wants to lower its tax base...

I think you are substantially overestimating the tax revenues lost from distilling for home consumption in Canada.
Home distilling for a household would not result in any kind of meaningful loss in tax revenue.
I would venture to guess that the increased tax revenues from buying distilling hardware and supplies would offset it in most cases.
Not much different than being able to grow 4 pot plants in your basement.

Home Distiller

Canadian Moonshiners Unite!

Is it possible to change the remnants of the prohibition laws that still exist in Canada?

Canadian Moonshiners Unite!

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Re: Canadian Moonshiners Unite!

Re: Canadian Moonshiners Unite!