opening a legal distillery in the U.S.

Little or nothing to do with distillation.

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mikeac
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Re: yep

Post by mikeac » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:40 am

Uncle Jesse wrote:True, but perhaps I can find a distributor who sells online to 50 states.
Not good enough...some of us interested customers are international!!! Worth a road trip though I suppose... :D

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Post by bronzdragon » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:41 am

Have you done the numbers yet as to what your price point per bottle would be? In other words are you shooting for high end pricing or middle of the road?

I read through your website and it appears that you'll be shooting for high end. This means ... what? $25+ per bottle?

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Products

Post by Uncle Jesse » Wed Nov 14, 2007 11:56 am

We're not sure yet on exact pricing. It will vary by product as determined by our costs.

We're looking for people who are willing to spend a bit more to get the hand crafted quality which larger distilleries simply can't match.

Having said that, it's important for us to keep our products reasonably priced. I want my spirits to be enjoyed by the average person who is looking for something a little better.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.

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Post by bronzdragon » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:23 pm

I completely understand production costs etc. I was just hoping that you wouldn't say that it would be too expensive.

Good luck, hope you can get it on the shelves in the swamp states.

~r~
"If it weren't for the alcohol, beer would be a healthfood."

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Post by Samogon » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:22 am

So you have a federal license but not yet state? And therefore there is no product yet, right?

Congrats on your latest progress.

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Post by Husker » Thu Nov 15, 2007 11:35 am

Samogon wrote:So you have a federal license but not yet state? And therefore there is no product yet, right?

Congrats on your latest progress.
Probably now he "only" needs, state, county, city permits. Hopefully those are quicker to get, as it is actually easier to go sit in someones office, until you get service (I have done this at the state level, when I was getting the run around). Hopefully, in a couple months, UJ should be able to legally produce what he needs.

You got your bond already, right? Did you also need a state bond, or are they simply OK with you paying on the quarter (or month), with no bond?

H.

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Post by stoker » Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:44 am

how are things going?
-I have too much blood in my alcohol system-

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Post by Homer » Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:18 pm

need a travaling salesman?

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Post by Butch50 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 4:40 pm

Here is a short article about a startup distillery in Texas. Tito's Vodka

http://www.austinchronicle.com/gyrobase ... id%3A85608" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Post by fatbloke » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:18 pm

Haven't read the full thread yet, but I got to where UJ was mentioning "proof gallons" for bonding/taxation etc.

Now forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I though that 100% proof = 57.1 %abv hence 70% proof being 40%abv.

Or is the "proof" thing different in the US in a similar way that UK/Imperial gallons are 4.55 liters instead of the US gallon of 4(?) liters ???

Right, off to carry on reading

TVM

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Post by tracker0945 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:32 pm

fatbloke wrote:Haven't read the full thread yet, but I got to where UJ was mentioning "proof gallons" for bonding/taxation etc.

Now forgive me if I'm incorrect, but I though that 100% proof = 57.1 %abv hence 70% proof being 40%abv.

Or is the "proof" thing different in the US in a similar way that UK/Imperial gallons are 4.55 liters instead of the US gallon of 4(?) liters ???

Right, off to carry on reading

TVM

fatbloke
I am sure that you will find that the figure for %abv is half of the proof figure.
100 proof = 50%abv
80 proof = 40%abv
70 proof = 35%abv etc.etc.etc.

US or Imperial, makes no difference

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Post by HookLine » Fri Dec 28, 2007 5:43 pm

Actually, it does make a difference. There are at least 3 different definitions of proof, the US, the UK (Sykes), and the Canadian (Sykes 100).

That is why it is always best to use %abv as the measure of alcohol content, as it is the same everywhere.
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ok

Post by Uncle Jesse » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:04 pm

We're almost state licensed. Fingers crossed here.

A Proof Gallon is one U.S. gallon at 100 proof (50% ABV). This is how the Feds tax alcohol. It's different for each State.
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Re: ok

Post by mtnwalker2 » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:42 pm

Uncle Jesse wrote:We're almost state licensed. Fingers crossed here.

A Proof Gallon is one U.S. gallon at 100 proof (50% ABV). This is how the Feds tax alcohol. It's different for each State.
UJ, That seems to me to be as wrong as the tripple taxation to begin with. How can the Feds justify taxing a different state with a different tax, or are you referring to state tax included? Otherwise, it would be a tremendous tax bias and prohibition to some states.
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nah

Post by Uncle Jesse » Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:56 pm

I pay Federal tax and a separate State tax. State tax is per bottle, higher amount of tax for 100+ proof.

Feds tax by the proof gallon.
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Re: nah

Post by fatbloke » Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:18 am

Uncle Jesse wrote:I pay Federal tax and a separate State tax. State tax is per bottle, higher amount of tax for 100+ proof.

Feds tax by the proof gallon.
Well I haven't crunched the numbers for the UK, but it seems that it's priced (for spirits that is) at £19.56 per % abv per hectoliter (that's 100 liters I think), so for a hectoliter at 40% it's £782.40 (US $1564.65) which of course, as we don't have "state tax", still doesn't include the 17.5% VAT (same as sales tax) which is on top of that.

So I haven't sussed out whether it's more £$£$£$£$ or not, but it's damned pricey!

fatbloke
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Post by tracker0945 » Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:45 pm

HookLine wrote:Actually, it does make a difference. There are at least 3 different definitions of proof, the US, the UK (Sykes), and the Canadian (Sykes 100).

That is why it is always best to use %abv as the measure of alcohol content, as it is the same everywhere.
I stand corrected :oops:
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Post by JMF » Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:05 am

I just joined this forum recently and found this thread today. It's been great reading it and I realized I have so much I need to learn. FAST!

I am in the process of starting up a artisanal/micro-distillery / brewery /winery up here in Maine. I'm doing this on a relatively low budget out of my savings. So I partnered up with a local winery in late November '07 and this is making the application process go through a lot faster. What is great is that they have all the wine making equipment and the facility. We have a separate space for the distillery that has large windows looking in from both the winery and an upstairs event center so folks can also look down and see everything, especially the stills; while events, special wine pairing dinners, weddings, etc. are going on

I also have a deal with a local brewery to make our mash and ferment it under my supervision, so I am saving on my up front equipment costs. This way I can get started much faster and with less capital investment. Down the road I can buy equipment as needed.

I got one of the Brewhaus PSII High Capacity 30 liter stills to use for experimental batches.

I ordered one of the Colonels stills (I was number 46 on his waiting list), the 60 gallon Georgia Ridge with the additional Ozark Mountain head so I can do pot distilling as well.

http://www.coppermoonshinestills.com/id25.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

It's the same as my avatar

This should be good to start with. I plan on doing rum, eau de vie, and maybe an apple or maple syrup vodka to start out so I can get some immediate sales, plus whiskies and fruit brandies of various types to age.

I am currently a food and beverage writer who focuses on spirits and food business consultant. I have worked as a brewer and hard cider maker in the past. We just finished fermenting our fist two 250 gallon batches of English style dry cider which we will age for around 6-8 weeks before bottling. But this is my first try at distilling. I am a total newbie jumping right in to it. I took a workshop at Cornell University on artisanal distilling in early Dec.

I have been reading just about everything I can on this site and several others and have visits lined up to several distilleries to do some hands on training before I start on my own. I anticipate that everything will be up and running by June 1st at the latest.

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Post by cannon.co.tn » Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:22 pm

Congrats and good luck JMF!

You're living the dream that many of us have here.

I think that most of the commercial distilleries are running plate-fractioning stills rather than true pot or reflux-fractioning stills so you should be a pretty unique setup.

Please be sure to post info on here as soon as your app. goes through, I'm sure there are plenty of folks here who are interested in tasting your results.
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Post by wineo » Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:02 pm

Some of us ole boys could make some really good stuff in a setup like that.Someone needs to set things strait on how good the commercial guys could make it if they really wanted.GO GET IM!

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Post by RadicalEd1 » Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:36 pm

UJ, just saw this thread and gave it a good read! Fascinating topic.

Please tell me that you'll be selling a few cases of white dog! Please?

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Good Resource

Post by Dan Call » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:12 pm

I too have been following this thread with great interest. And hats off to Uncle Jessie for getting it done and showing us all how in the process. I want to see Uncle Jessie change his avatar to include a Ferrari at some point soon.

Ian Smiley recommended that I go to this web site for resources for the micro distiller.

If you go here:

http://www.distilling.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


There's some good industry resources. If you click on the "2008 Conference" link and click on "Craft Whiskey Distillers" you'll see a list of craft distillers. This conference is in April, happening at Louisville and somewhere in Indiana. I'm going to try to go and, if nothing else, support Uncle Jessie and get to meet him in person. He may not appreciate me saying thing, but must of us know anyway, he's "Piooner Spirits" on there.

This, to me, represents the new age of micro distilling, where the little man with the guts can do it like the big buys, not to mention whoop em' up real bad with quality. The next phase is happening now, the artisan distillery is the new micro-brewery, Vodka is the hot item, but is giving way to boutique rums. I'm ready to see some serious Bourbons that give Julian Van Winkle III and the Beam boys a run for their money. It can be done. I'd like to be one of the one's who helps do it, too.

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Post by schnell » Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:25 pm

well, I'll see ya in Lousiville then...

Our permit was issued yesterday to Sunshine Spirits, Inc. of New Mexico.

Thanks to the folks, several here, who helped us get into the business as well.

Look forward to meeting those of you who can attend.

Aaron

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ok

Post by Uncle Jesse » Sat Jan 26, 2008 7:40 pm

Received my State permits today. Now for the final city inspections and then I'm legal to distill.
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Post by HookLine » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:01 pm

So, UJ, is part of the conditions for your pemits that you don't associate with known lawbreakers and otherwise disreputable characters, ie us? :wink:
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Post by Dnderhead » Sun Jan 27, 2008 8:31 am

Lawbreakers? we just talk about it hear-- no law against that is there?



It's illegal to make liquor privately and
make water publicly

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Post by rad14701 » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:12 am

Dnderhead wrote:Lawbreakers? we just talk about it hear-- no law against that is there?

It's illegal to make liquor privately and
make water publicly
In some areas just talking about "it" could be considered conspiracy, especially if someone who you talked about it with actually did "it"... Here in the US these days you're guilty until proven innocent, not innocent until proven guilty... Everyone breaks one law or another during their waking hours so it doesn't do much good to worry about such things... But legalities are a debate best left to another forum topic...

Anyway, I guess some minor congratulations are in order, Uncle Jessie... Just a matter of time now... Good luck with final inspections... :wink:

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Post by big worm » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:01 pm

just read thru this thread...totaly cool i want some of your hand crafted products.
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Post by Uncle Jesse » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:25 pm

The Fire Marshall for the City of Chico came by today to inspect our operations. He has to look up the maximum amount we can store on site given our sprinklers and so on, but he gave me the nod to start working on my 10 gallon still "Old Tippy."

So, this weekend I will be running my first batch of legal spirits! Now I can do my final recipe development on the 10 gallon still.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.

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Post by Butch50 » Tue Feb 05, 2008 4:42 pm

Congratulations for a hard won victory!! :D
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