opening a legal distillery in the U.S.

Little or nothing to do with distillation.

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madscientist
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Post by madscientist »

Lookin good UJ!!!!
Give us some specs on that head. It looks great. Also how bout the cap? Did you start with a steam kettle or fab from the ground up new?
olcarguy
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Post by olcarguy »

Nice JD Looks like you will soon be in business. Is that a stainless boiler or copper with the stainless cover?
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Still

Post by Uncle Jesse »

I am not the one who made it, I bought it. It's a very thick copper still with a stainless steel or maybe it's a thick aluminum cover. The cover is just set into place and covers insulation which surrounds the still.

The column weighs about 25 or 30 lbs and is solid copper made from one sheet which was bent and tig welded together in 3 sections. As is my preference it's packed with glass, not copper mesh.

The worm and pre-heater are being shipped separately.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.
sketchie
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Post by sketchie »

OMG that is the best personal venture I have come accross yet. When you make it to the big time, be sure to make 1700 limited edition batches for all forum members :wink:.

That would have taken some serious time thought and money. I congratulate you on having the guts to pull something like this off, most people play it safe and get a job. lol Well done. In the meantime, I am happy with my little 5 litre still. :roll: Well it is a personal use still so I dont see the point in anything bigger. :wink:
Fourway
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Post by Fourway »

the recently ammended new york state farm distilleries act designates small distilleries that use primarily new york state agricultural products as a protected agricultrial use... making them exempt from city and county ordinances or inspectors. folks doing what you are doing here in nys answer to the feds and the state liquor authority and nobody else... not even the local fire marshal.

have a look at the legislation, something similar could fly in CA... and you'd be able to tell the city where to stick their retaining wall.
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Dan Call
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What's going on???

Post by Dan Call »

I only today found this thread! This is the most interesting thread on the whole forum if you ask me because this is my goal, to do it legitimately. My consultations with a criminal lawyer about continuing to home distill whilst planning a legal distillery was too chancey, so I took it all apart. I learned from the Smiley book, came here, and have read everything a time or six.

This thread is exactly what I've been looking for. Thanks very much Uncle Jesse for going through all this shit then having the graciousness to actually post about what's going on. I'm a little nervous that Sep. 22 is the last post.....I'm wondering what's going on now....in October. I hope all is well....would love to read an update.
schnell
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gauging

Post by schnell »

how are you gonna do your gauging tank? are you going to measure the weight or the volume?

everyone seems to do the same thing, but do it somewhat different.

it seems that the periodic recertification could be a pain for a volumetric measurement (recalibrating/validating the sight glass) compared to checking a scale (pop a weight on it and go) for weight.

are those hydrometers really NIST certified? the cfr doesn't mention this for the proof hydrometers, but does mention a certificate for the specific gravity hydrometers.

Aaron


Aaron
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answers

Post by Uncle Jesse »

1. I'm going to use weight. I got two NTEP, California State certified scales. If you read the Gauging Manual of Title 27, as I assume you have, you'll see that for volumes over 10 gallons it must be weighed to the nearest half pound, whereas for volumes under 10 gallons it must be weighed to the nearest ounce or hundredth pound, then recorded in hundredth pounds. The Gauging Manual is the last chapter dealing with distilled spirits in Title 27 and should be understood clearly.

2. I paid $200 each to have a thermometer and three of my eleven alcohol hydrometers NIST certified. This cost is on top of the purchase cost so that thermometer ran me about $260 alone! And I have the nice laminated NIST certifications to prove it. On the upside, I won a monthly drawing and got a free indoor/outdoor thermometer for my troubles.
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schnell
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Post by schnell »

yeah, when i imagined pouring liquid 1 liter at a time from a certified graduated cylinder into a tank trying to fill it, each and every time validation is required... well, mass sure looks easier to recertify. just plop a certified weight on it and write down the number. much easier.

I got an NIST hydrometer that's 0-200 proof (yep $300), which is unfortunately not one of the ones described in 27 cfr. So i started looking closer at certification requirements.

The HB instrument ones look like the only manufacturer on the market who makes them according to the circular 555. And they aren't certified. Like you, I'll need to mail them to NIST for a visit if i want the pretty certificate.


Aaron
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almost

Post by Uncle Jesse »

HB Instruments will arrange the certification for you. Just let them know what you need and they will set it up so you can ship the instruments to them to be calibrated.
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Loki
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Post by Loki »

Hey! I am excited for you to find out if your applications went through. It's hard to tell from the pictures, what's the approx size of your plant?

I have a couple of questions:

Are both theft and liability insurance required? How much liability did you take out?

Also, will you be doing your own bottling or outsourcing? I was curious as to what types of sterilizing equipment is involved in doing your own bottling or if that is even feasible at first.
Uncle Jesse
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Update

Post by Uncle Jesse »

If all goes well we should have our Federal license to distill in two weeks.

I'm starting to figure out the details of the State licensing procedures.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.
Dan

Post by Dan »

Please do online sales, I'm sure all of us want a pint or 3.
blanikdog
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Post by blanikdog »

Dan wrote:Please do online sales, I'm sure all of us want a pint or 3.
Now there's a good posting.

blanik :)
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Post by cannon.co.tn »

any news?
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Progress

Post by Uncle Jesse »

Well folks, here is what a Federal Basic Permit to distill looks like:

Image

Now for the State, the paperwork is in progress.
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.
cannon.co.tn
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Post by cannon.co.tn »

Congrats! 5.5 months! Look like a trip to chico is in order!
I make my own beer
and wine
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for 'shine
bronzdragon
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Post by bronzdragon »

I'll order a couple of bottles of the first commercial run!

~r~
"If it weren't for the alcohol, beer would be a healthfood."
mtnwalker2
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Post by mtnwalker2 »

I want several cases, sighned and numbered labels. Please put me on the schedule sheet.

Heck, UJ you could presell a lot and recover costs of startup.

Like an author selling books and sighning and autographing it. Since you are so sincere and dedicated to this, and basically almost a done deal, give us the opportunity to support you and have a touch of history here. Give your followers first chance, and a personalized label as well.

Looking forward to it.
> "You are what you repeatedly do. Excellence is not an event - it is a
>habit" Aristotle
modul8
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Post by modul8 »

Congrats UJ!!!

Would love to be able to get my hands on some of this when available!
Give me an indication of what it SHOULD taste like and try, try and try again to replicate :wink:
partsbill
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Post by partsbill »

Its been really great following you on this adventure!! Great CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

I'd also like to get in on the bottle or 3;....way over here on the east coast.
cannon.co.tn
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Post by cannon.co.tn »

mtnwalker2 wrote:I want several cases, sighned and numbered labels. Please put me on the schedule sheet.

Heck, UJ you could presell a lot and recover costs of startup.
Unfortunately California has a pretty strict 3 tier system and won't allow UJ to sell directly unless he sets up a retail store as well. Even in tasting rooms spirits makers in California have to buy their own spirits from a distributor.
I make my own beer
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Some hits the still
for 'shine
Uncle Jesse
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yep

Post by Uncle Jesse »

True, but perhaps I can find a distributor who sells online to 50 states.
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cannon.co.tn
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Post by cannon.co.tn »

let us know when you have a CA distributor I'll start pestering K&L and Beltramos as soon as you are set up.
I make my own beer
and wine
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for 'shine
bronzdragon
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Post by bronzdragon »

In my state, I could not get a shipment from a wine or liquor manufacturer. However, I can, and have, had shipments I ordered come in through a local wine/liquor shop. Then I just go over there and pick it up ... buy a six pack to support the shop and head out.

~r~

p.s. be sure and put it in a cool bottle that we can reuse!
"If it weren't for the alcohol, beer would be a healthfood."
mtnwalker2
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Post by mtnwalker2 »

bronzdragon wrote:~r~

p.s. be sure and put it in a cool bottle that we can reuse!
Maybe the first case for drinking. second case for history, classic bottles and great labels, third shipment in a big ole barrel for years of ageing. Weekly shipings to top it off though. I like to share with the angels.

Others ship from CA, so it can be done. Where theres a will theres a way, and UJ, you already have proven that statement.
Laws aren't made to be broken, but can be used when understood.

Sure would love to buy that label, posted on a keepsake bottle, for historical purposes, filled with a historical element. Or whatever it takes to skin the possum. It can be and has been done. I still want a couple of cases. Go on ebay, and you will have to get another 4o plus kilns and fermenters to match, and hire half of Mexico to help you.

Jokeing and sincerity aside, good luck and very best wishes.
> "You are what you repeatedly do. Excellence is not an event - it is a
>habit" Aristotle
schnell
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congradulations!

Post by schnell »

Tell us your trademark and I'll hassle the local spirit shops to try and carry it out here as well. They're getting to carry a decent selection of microdistilled spirits since i keep hounding them.

Looking forward to my first taste...

Aaron
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Post by grainhopper »

What a great marketing Plan.

Everyone in the forum ask for UJSM in their respective areas liquor stores.
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Post by OldManP »

Hell yeah...even those of us in government jobs which travel the world will be able to help..I'll just hassle every liquor store in every city i move too! UJ...let me know if you need a sales representative. I would love to apply as would almost every person here. In my line of work---a lot of people consume adult beverages. Even part time, I'm open for hire...

I wasn't kidding, but if you think I was then here's a serious question--

After you make it professionally, please tell me this site will remain up and we will all still be able to benefit and that the Fed's or media won't pry into our forum/lives and remove our beloved hobby from our whereabouts...(that's iffin' y'all are doin' it in a place that ain't legal of course)?

Congrats and G'luck UJ....remember...world wide sales rep right here for ya!
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Pioneer Spirits mail list

Post by Uncle Jesse »

If you'd like to subscribe to our mail list to receive news and product info from the distillery, send email to:

announcements-request@pioneerspirits.com

and in the body of the message put the word:

subscribe

Enjoy
If only the best birds sang, the woods would be silent.
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