opening a legal distillery in the U.S.

[Uncle Jesse]

i shouldn't even mention it cause i don't want to jinx it, but i believe i am going to be in a position to try to open a legal distillery soon. i have the paperwork and most of the equipment. i should have my 10bbl (300 gallon) copper still in about a month. it's basically a larger version of the one i already have which is 10 gallon and on which i learned how to distill.

i hear it takes about 6 months minimum for the alcohol and tobacco folks to get a federal license to me...and that's not to mention the hassles of state and local approval and licensing.

i have all the skill i need, fingers crossed hoping i can make it work in the real world.

nothing ventured, nothing gained...hopefully it will work out and you folks can come visit my legal distillery to talk shop in the future.

[Rebel_Yell]

Congrats!

You just sing out when the open house is gonna be held. You'll get visitors.

[Tater]

cool

[TRANSPLANTED HILLBILLY]

Most excellent UJ. If time and modesty allow, I would be curious to know how much lawyerin' and hours of reading the CFR have been / will be consumed by this endeavor.

Good Luck & Godspeed

Only when you get the opportunity.

[Big J]

That's fantastic, good luck! Let us know when we can buy a bottle.

Cheers,
J

[maze48]

That is really cool . Have you selected a name for your new distillery?

[stoker]

cool indeed

and what will you make? will you use your still for just one drink?

[Pieterpost]

WOW ! Congratulations! You're realizing a dream many of us have ! Personally I would love to work/own a distillery !

[drunk2much]

Congrates.
Are you taking applicantions? ha ha kidding. What type of spirtit are you gunna produce? And where did you land a 300 gallon still (GWkent)?

[The Chemist]

You're a braver man than I!!! Good Luck, and all the best wishes!!

(And I want some of the first to come off, for testing and following through maturation...gratis)

[Uncle Jesse]

the name i've chosen is 'pioneer spirits' and i plan to produce traditional sour mash american whiskies but i'm not sure how they will sell, so i'll be producing whatever the market will bear. many wineries and orchards near me and i hope to take advantage.

[hornedrhodent]

Are you going to have the time to run a distillery as well as administer this site?

[Uncle Jesse]

of course i'll still be around homedistiller.

i leased a building, hired an architect, got property and liability insurance, and opened the company bank account.

i've started the federal paperwork which is a nightmare of minutiae.

[oldpete]

didnt anybody ever wonder where you learned to distill? i mean just kinda funny in my mind how you can be just an average joe and then apply for all the permits to become legit but where did you get the skill from?

[Uncle Jesse]

didnt anybody ever wonder where you learned to distill? i mean just kinda funny in my mind how you can be just an average joe and then apply for all the permits to become legit but where did you get the skill from?

what does it matter?

[drunk2much]

oldpete Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:50 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

didnt anybody ever wonder where you learned to distill? i mean just kinda funny in my mind how you can be just an average joe and then apply for all the permits to become legit but where did you get the skill from?

I have wonder the same thing. How do you go from being a hobbiest in a garage to a legal producer selling to the market and the government doesnt seem to care where ya learned or how long you have been knowledgeable in the field. Which leads me to belive that this whole game of paranoia is some what overdone as long as none of use does anything to stupid. (but then again there is always someone to screw it up for the responsible ones!)

[Uncle Jesse]

i can't believe you guys are so afraid of knowing how to distill. come on! it's not illegal and no knowledge is forbidden to us.

what are they concerned about? losing revenue. unless you're out there selling booze then i doubt you'd raise much suspicion. i dont know about the rest of you but the amounts i produced at home would make it ridiculous to sell any of my product. there just isn't enough of it and the economy of scale is far too small to make it profitable.

[Rotgut]

i wish you only the best and have fun with it(not like one couldnt)

[oldpete]

im not really afraid of the man, im pretty much a libertarian, i got bored i class and build a replica civil war cannon. just kinda view it as odd that if you are willing to pay taxes and jump through hoops your suddenly a friend of the government

[Uncle Jesse]

im not really afraid of the man, im pretty much a libertarian, i got bored i class and build a replica civil war cannon. just kinda view it as odd that if you are willing to pay taxes and jump through hoops your suddenly a friend of the government

so, anyone who gets licensed and opens a legitimate business is a friend of government?

you make no sense, sorry.

[KatoFong]

I think they're just a little surprised that the government isn't concerned about your ability to use the still. My understanding from what I've read is that one of the major difficulties in opening a legit distillery in America is that to be licensed, you have to own a still, but to own a still, you have to be licensed (in the government's eyes, that is...obviously, it doesn't hold true in practice). It's a bit surprising that, with a catch 22 that big, the government isn't also concerned with your ability to use the still properly.

Which leads me to belive that this whole game of paranoia is some what overdone as long as none of use does anything to stupid.

What paranoia? We're posting about our activities online where anyone can see. Including, if they care, the government. If anyone here is paranoid, posting online in a public forum is a funny way to express it.

[Uncle Jesse]

it's not illegal to own a still. it's illegal to produce potable spirits without a license, however. you have to have your still in place to get it licensed, then they note the serial number. every legit still made by a commercial stillmaker has a serial number on it.

there are many, many hoops to jump through, including a background check, purchase of a bond etc.

[Uncle Jesse]

incidentally, there is a sort of learners permit for distillers. i forget the exact details, but why go for that when the expense isnt much different from a full-blown license?

[KatoFong]

I'm not sure if you're willing or able to disclose this, but curiosity begs me to ask. What, exactly, do you have to go through to open your distillery?

[Grayson_Stewart]

It's not illegal to own a still. it's illegal to produce potable spirits without a license, however.

This topic comes up quite often and there are generally alot of confusing statements made about the legality. This may be due to the numerous countries represented here on the board and even the subsections within those countries like the states here in the US or because of the truly confusing wording and self contradicting statements made by those writing the laws.

I copied the following off the US Code section from Cornell School of Law website:

§ 5601. Criminal penalties

(a) Offenses
Any person who has in his possession or custody, or under his control, any still or distilling apparatus set up which is not registered, as required by section 5179 (a) shall be fined not more than $10,000, or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both, for each such offense.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ ... -000-.html

§ 5179. Registration of stills
(a) Requirements
Every person having in his possession or custody, or under his control, any still or distilling apparatus set up, shall register such still or apparatus with the Secretary immediately on its being set up, by subscribing and filing with the Secretary a statement, in writing, setting forth the particular place where such still or distilling apparatus is set up, the kind of still and its capacity, the owner thereof, his place of residence, and the purpose for which said still or distilling apparatus has been or is intended to be used (except that stills or distilling apparatus not used or intended to be used for the distillation, redistillation, or recovery of distilled spirits are not required to be registered under this section).
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/ ... -000-.html

I'm sure after reading that last sentence in parenthesis there are alot of homemade distilling units made exclusively for water

[Uncle Jesse]

it is perfectly legal to own a still for many uses. ethanol fuel being one of them in california. you need the federal permit but the state doesnt care. also people use stills for perfumes, water and so on.

now, as far as opening a legal distillery there are many, many steps. but to simplify it:

1. city approval including environmental health, fire, food codes etc
2. federal approval including very detailed information about processes etc.
3. state approval

taxes for a distillery are filed 2x/month, make money or not. it is all very complicated and i'm only starting to understand the intricacies while working on the paperwork for the feds.

[LONEEAGLE155]

Jesse I think it is great that you are branching out and after you are up and running I would love to buiy a couple of bottles of pioneer spirit so please keep us updated and let us know how to have them shipped to us put me down for a couple of bottles
JD

[golden pond]

By the way Jesse, are you planing on aging this liquor or selling it as is??

[Enlikil]

I think its awsome that you are going to the next step.
let me know how it all pans out.
I think it would be kool to own a distillary and make like 100 gallons a year hehe and just break even..... would be neat.

[Uncle Jesse]

By the way Jesse, are you planing on aging this liquor or selling it as is??

both. i'll set some aside to age and sell some. i plan to make corn whiskey at first, and to approach local wineries and farmers for brandies. i'm hoping some local wineries might be willing to contract brandy work out to me.

but, whatever the market will bear. if cinnamon schnapps with heart-shaped gold flecks is what sells, well, i'll lower my standards and go for it...