those bastards

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:42 am

this doesnt have anything to do with distilling but im just kinda pissed off.... i have had about 5 of my friends or family mebers die from cancer. they were on medication from mounths to years and they never seemed to be geting better and adventualy they died. but about a mounth ago i came across some info on vitamin b17 and how it got banned from the US after it cured some cancer patients from cancer. some stores would sell apricot seeds(inside the hard shell) because its high in vitamin b17 and if the FDA found out they would go to the store with GUNS

and take the seeds or shut down the store because "apricot seeds have cyanide in them"

but if the store would kill off a certain enzyme that activates the vitamin b17 it would suddenly be ok to sell. i was very confused about why the FDA would want to hide and get rid of cancer curing products and so i starting doing some research. i found out that vitamin b17 is one of the many vitamin and herbs that has been hidden from all of us so that the FDA can keep selling there drugs that do not cure you and you have to buy drugs from them for the rest of your life. theres tribs in south america that have no clue what cancer is because they arent vitamn b17 deprived like all cancer patients are. all around the US the FDA is trying to shut down stores that sell herbs and vitamins that actualy cure people. so next time you see a FDA agent tell them to kiss your ass!!!!!!!

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:44 am

alls you gota do is do is type in vitamin b17 on google and you will get millions of pages about cures for cancer

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:52 am

You're right, Army. The FDA is not interested in what is good for the consumer. There is an herb (Stevia) that is much sweeter than sugar, natural (of course), and cheap. It would be very good for diabetics, weight loss, etc. It has been widely used in Asia, with no health concerns, for many years. But the FDA treats is just like cocaine--raiding shipments with guns drawn, confiscating and all that. Why? Think Nutrasweet. Think Aspartame. Think Big Bucks. Get the picture? Any time there seem to be weird regulatory issues, take Deep Throat's advice and follow the money.

Yttrium · Post by **Yttrium** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:52 am

It would be nice if there really was a simple cure for cancer, but don't get your hopes up.

The history of Laetrile, aka B17
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRel ... trile.html

Here's an interesting page on selling alternative medicine:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRel ... ksell.html
My favorite quote from that page is:

When polio was conquered, iron lungs became virtually obsolete, but nobody resisted this advancement because it would force hospitals to change. Neither will medical scientists mourn the eventual defeat of cancer. Moreover, how could a conspiracy to withhold a cancer cure hope to be successful? Many physicians die of cancer each year. Do you believe that the vast majority of doctors would conspire to withhold a cure for a disease which affects them, their colleagues and their loved ones? To be effective, a conspiracy would have to be worldwide. If laetrile, for example, really worked, many other nations' scientists would soon realize it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:27 am

yea its not 100% affective but it in many cases its cured people. i was reading you have to have alot of other vitamins and minerals for the vitamin b17 to actually work. but the FDA is just out for money they arnt trying to cure people there trying to get their money. if your ever up between 2-6 in the morning theres usually this infomercial on with this guy explaining how the FDA is puting stuff in our food and just out for money. its called "natural cures that they dont want you to know about".

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:47 am

thats me by the way^^^^..... what if there was cures for every disease??? the FDA wouldnt be in buisness and of course they dont want that. so thats why they try to hide and ban all the cures they know of and make everyone think that there trying there best. there isnt cures for everything but there is more cures then everybody thinks. other then just cancer theres so many illnesses that have simple cures for. for example if you take a shoot of vinegar while you have heart burn it will go away instantly because your body doesnt have enough acid so it cant break down food and a certain kind of gas it produces in your stomach that burns. most people think that acid is burning their stomach buts its not. instead of the FDA coming up with a cure for heartburn or acid reflex disease they make a pill that takes up to 4 days to work. the pill gets rid of all the acid in your body and that tells your body to produce more acid and adventualy it does. but what your body really needs is more digeastive enzymes that will balance out the acid in your stomach and CURE you. but the FDA loves money more then cures.

Yttrium · Post by **Yttrium** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:24 pm

Here's another quote from "How quakery sells"
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRel ... ksell.html

Claims of "suppression" are used to market publications as well as treatments. Many authors and publishers purport to offer information that your doctor, the AMA, and/or government agencies "don't want you to know about."

And if the FDA is really out get you, how to you rebuke this?

To be effective, a conspiracy would have to be worldwide. If laetrile, for example, really worked, many other nations' scientists would soon realize it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:50 pm

you may be right but why would they shut stores down and try and ban stores that sell helpful products??? they allow people to sell cigarettes but they banned apricot seeds from stores??? vitamin b17 might not cure cancer all the time but it DOES prevent it 100% of the time. and i just came across this site..................http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer/Alkaline.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Cesium has been proven by Dr. A. Keith Brewer, PhD, to get into cancer cells, when other nutrients cannot. The cesium:
1) makes the cancer cell alkaline,
2) limits the intake of glucose into the cell (thus starving the cell),
3) neutralizes the lactic acid (which is actually what causes the cell to multiply uncontrollably) and makes it nontoxic, and
4) stops the fermentation process, which is a second affect of limiting the glucose.

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:12 pm

http://www.cancertutor.com/Cancer/Laetrile.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

other nations might not know about this whole vitamin b17 thing. the FDA made it illegal to say anything other then a drug(not laetrile) can cure,diagnose, or prevent and disease. in order to get a medicine liecense you seriously have to have millions of dollars. they also they keep calling more and more illnesses diseases. so if they think they can make some money off a illness they start calling it a disease and then suddenly only the FDA can write on the bottle of there product that it can cure,prevent, or diagnose a disease so all the actual cures never get revealed. its all about the money. i would support the FDA if hiding certain cures wasnt about the money and about something like the human population being to high(people need to stop having to many fucking kids!). but the FDA is to powerful and cant be stoped and this will probably never end.

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:25 pm

http://www.goodhealthinfo.net/cancer/fo ... _fruit.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Ralph Moss, Ph.D., who was assistant director of public affairs at MSKCC for five years in the mid-seventies, noticed during his time there that the institution’s claim about laetrile’s ineffectiveness contradicted what its own research showed. When he pointed this out, he was fired.

http://www.hwforums.com/2113/messages/1590.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

So how is it that any of us gets cancer in the first place. Is it exposure to cigarette smoking, intense sunlight or perhaps the effect of toxic food additives? Dr. Krebs thinks not. All of the hard biochemical evidence points to the fact that cancer is a simple deficiency disease of vitamin B17, long ago removed from our highly refined, western diets. Krebs postulates that the so-called 'carcinogens' are merely stress triggers that finally expose the B17 deficiency with devastating effect

The implications of these findings are staggering of course. If we managed to control Scurvy (vitamin C deficiency) centuries ago, how is it we cannot do the same for cancer today? The fact of the matter is that we could if our respective governments would allow it. Unfortunately most governments have buckled under the pressure exerted by the pharmaceutical multinationals, the American Food & Drug Administration, and the American Medical Association. All three have mounted highly successful 'scare' campaigns based on the fact that vitamin B17 contains quantities of 'deadly' cyanide; conveniently forgetting that vitamin B12 also contains significant quantities of cyanide, and has long been available in health food shops world-wide.

Yttrium · Post by **Yttrium** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:31 pm

Its not allowed to be sold because it is poisonous. B17 breaks down into cyanide in your body. I certainly hope the government would shut stores down that sell rat poison as a herbal remedy.

Amygdalin was originally isolated in 1830 by two French chemists. In the presence of certain enzymes, amygdalin breaks down into glucose, benzaldehyde, and hydrogen cyanide (which is poisonous). It was tried as an anticancer agent in Germany in 1892, but was discarded as ineffective and too toxic for that purpose. During the early 1950s, Ernst T. Krebs, Sr., M.D., and his son Ernst, Jr., began using a "purified" form of amygdalin to treat cancer patients. Since that time scientists have tested substances called "Laetrile" in more than 20 animal tumor models as well as in humans and found no benefit either alone or together with other substances. Along the way its proponents have varied their claims about Laetrile's origin, chemical structure, mechanism of action, and therapeutic effects [1,2]. Its place in history is assured, however, as a focus of political activities intended to abolish the laws protecting Americans from quackery.

As for the whole cesium thing, here's a site that debunks the whole thing point by point:
http://www.askbillsardi.com/sdm.asp?pg=cal_cancer

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:44 pm

they banned it completly from the US and other countrys. they still let vitamin b12 to be sold in the US which also has cyanide in it, they still let people smoke,drink,get fat, and ect. does it really matter if you take a vitamin with some cyanide in it if your gona die anyways.

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:48 pm

why dont they let people distill their own taxless liquor??? MONEY!!!!!!!
why does the FDA hide and ban herbs and cures??? MONEY!!!!!!

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:55 pm

http://www.alternativehealth.co.nz/arti ... toring.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Pharmaceutical
drugs are not intended to cure diseases. According to health insurers,
over 24,000 pharmaceutical drugs are currently marketed and prescribed
without any proven therapeutic value (AOKMagazine 4/98). According
to medical doctors associations, the known dangerous side-effects
of pharmaceutical drugs have become the fourth leading cause of
death after heart attacks, cancer and strokes (Journal of the
American Medical Association, JAMA April 15, 1998 )
Millions of people and patients around the world are defrauded
twice: A major portion of their income is used up to finance the
exploding profits of the pharmaceutical industry. In return, they
are offered a medicine that does not even cure.

Chemotherapy is an invasive and toxic treatment able supposedly to
eliminate cancer cells. Unfortunately though, its ferocious chemistry
is not able to differentiate between the cancerous cell or the
healthy cell and surrounding healthy tissue. Put simply, chemotherapy
is an intravenously administered poison that kills all living matter

chemotherapy=toxic
vitamin b17=toxic
vitamin b12=toxic

why is vitamin b17 the only one that is banned???

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:57 pm

if i mysterioursly disapeer or am never heard from again from revealing the truth i just wanna tell you now its been a good debate

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:02 pm

www.whale.to/cancer/quotes.html

"Two to 4% of cancers respond to chemotherapy……The bottom line is for a few kinds of cancer chemo is a life extending procedure---Hodgkin's disease, Acute Lymphocytic Leukemia, Testicular cancer, and Choriocarcinoma."----Ralph Moss, Ph.D. 1995 Author of Questioning Chemotherapy.

"A combination of laetrile, Gerson, enzymes and Coley type vaccines would cure over 95% of cancers."---Frank Hourigan, co-author with Dick Richards, M.D. of The Good News on Cancer.

"This (Coley’s toxins) is really an effective treatment and it an OUTRAGEOUS crime of the century that we at MSK were able to cure cancer a 100 years ago that they can't cure today."----Ralph Moss http://www.sumeria.net/canc/rmoss.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

"Medications are palliatives. They are not designed to cure the degenerative diseases of the body."----F. Batmanghelidj, M.D.

"My opinion, however, is that they (herbs) are superior 95% of the time to any pharmaceutical drug!"---Dr Willner, M.D.

level Joe · Post by **level Joe** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 7:32 pm

USarmy21;
Guns kill, cars kill, beef kills, sex kills, sunlight kills, loved ones kill, fire kills, water kills, and anything else you can think of (hell even ignorance). You are on this planet with only one ending DEATH. If you think eating something is gona save your life, do it, smoke it, drink it, make it at home

.
You have the moral right to do what makes you happy but all the conspiracy talk dont sound fulfilling to me. So I tend to be of the mind that the rest of the world is not trying to kill me for their own gain. Im gona have sex, drink, smoke, own a gun, not take my vitamins, and make babies if I want (lots of them) and teach them that you get back what you put out there. If someone (Im not trying to imply you) is a crazy paranoid person then yes, people are out to get them every where they turn, because the mind will see all kinds of reasons to make it justifiable and real.
Bud, I would give you the shirt off my back if I thought you needed it and Im not saying the world is fair but I know that most all of the people are not evil (misguided maybe but not evil).
You can break my post down point by point, quote this or that. You are more than welcome. I just have to stand up, some of those health care people are family/friends.

Yttrium · Post by **Yttrium** » Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:00 pm

There is a difference between being banned from being sold as a drug, and being a controlled substance. Cocaine & LSD are controlled substances, meaning that you can't buy them without filling out some paperwork with the DEA.

To sell something as a drug, you have to provide the FDA with a huge amount of data, show in clinical studies that it works, etc, etc. The typical time it takes for a drug company(Eli Lilly, Merck, etc) to fulfill all these requirements is around 7 years. When drugs are advertised, the side effects must also be listed...Although I really think Cialis would advertise that 4 hour errection without the government requiring it. There are even limitations on which types of drugs can be advertised. Only "lifestyle" drugs (viagra, prozac) can be advertised on television. You won't see pharmacuetical companies advertising cancer or AIDS drugs on TV.

Now, most of the stuff we have been discussing doesn't fall into the controlled substance catagory or the drug catagory. For instance, it is perfectly legal to sell rat poison, it is legal to buy rat poison, you can even ingest as much rat poison as your heart desires, but unless rat poison makes it through the FDA's screening process, you can't market&sell rat poison as a drug.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:30 am

B-17 was used in russia in the 1800's to prevent and slow down cancer. And is still used in many countries, so it is on a global level.
There is also evidence that it can aid in hypertension(although the wrong dose can cause severe hypotension). And, there is evidence that it can help with many types of sever arthritis.

I don't think it is any major conspiricy, but it does raise some questions for me.....If the US gov. knows that there are benefits to using b-17, why is it still illegal. I underrstand that too much of it, and not being taken with the proper digestive enzymes can hurt and/or kill someone, but then again so can vicodin,and hundreds and thousands of other things(including water). The only sense I can make out of it is that someone wants to keep it out of the hands of the public. I think that doctors should be able to perscribe it under close supervision for certain ailments.

~pothead

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:46 am

well sorry if i seem paraniod but i was just making a point. but tell me why would the FDA want to pass a drug that sometimes cures in low stage cancers,slows down the growth and prevents cancer???

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:48 am

and pretty much any drug you take will have a sideaffect. B12 has cynaide in it why isnt it banned???

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:52 am

you can support the FDA and health care people all you want but when you get cancer i wouldnt relie on them to much. you would be trying all that you can to live and their drugs aint gona make you live there just gona numb the pain.

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:19 am

yttrium tell me why do you support the FDA??? and luckly for the FDA you happen to be a good debater. but the FDA seemed like good people to me just trying to help people but if you think about it none of their drugs actualy cure people. scientist did a study on anti depressent drugs and the reports show that 2 of the FDAs drugs and a well known herb did NOTHING to help with depression.
i know death is natural but if you look back in history there were very little cases of people geting diseases like they are today. its from the foods we eat. we arnt geting the right vitamins and minerals and that just destroys your body and sometimes results in stuff like cancer and scury. scientist has proven that not being vitamin b17 deprived you cant get cancer.

Its not allowed to be sold because it is poisonous. B17 breaks down into cyanide in your body. I certainly hope the government would shut stores down that sell rat poison as a herbal remedy.

vitamin b12 gets broke down into cyanide too. why isnt it banned from the US??? many things have pioson in them but the FDA still allows people to sell the product. and if you have cancer whats it really gona matter if your taking pioson??? chemotherapy piosons your body why do doctors still use it on cancer patients??? because its not as affective as vitamin b17.

The Chemist · Post by **The Chemist** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:33 am

Oh, a little cyanide never hurt anybody

(little is key here). Last week there was an article on the CNN website about a college kid who died from drinking too much--WATER. Seems it screws up the ionic balance and causes heart attacks. Who would have thunk it? BAN DIHYDROGEN MONOXIDE!!

Post by **Uncle Jesse** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:53 am

how many people you know have died from too much water?

cyanide is very poisonous.

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:42 am

methanol is VERY piosonous. ITS CAN BLIND YOU OR EVEN WORSE KILL YOU!!! im sure we all heard stories about how deadly home distilling is becuase of methanol and "deadly fussel oils". when i first started up in distilling i was scared to death of methanol and fussel oils. this is one of the few sites that told the real story. other sites would say that homemade wine will kill you if you dont have a special highly advanced filter to get rid of all the bad stuff and home distilling was even more dangerous. yes homedistilling came be dangerous just like cyanide but we are all still here just like all those people who took those deadly vitamin b17 pills are. cyanide can kill you in a certain dose but how much is the deadly dose??? how much were those lucky cancer survivers given???

i bet you a million bucks that if scientist did a study about natural herbs compared to the FDAs drugs they would find out the herbs did a much better job at healing. iv heard many stories of athlets almost lose their career because of messed up joints but they took a natural herb remedy and it HEALED them and not just numb the pain. your body cant heal its self if you dont have all the right vitamins in your diet. i been taking vitamin c for years now and in the past maybe 4-6 years i havnt even had a cold.

Post by **Uncle Jesse** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:11 am

believe me, if herbs did the jobs drugs do, then the pharmaceutical companies would have patents on the herbs.

Post by **Tater** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:24 am

I personaly dont belive in the FDA or much else our goverment does either.However i do belive that anything that works would bes worth to much to be kept a secret.

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:40 am

then how do you explain all the stuff i said and quoted before??? why is vitamin b17 banned from the US??? why can you only buy apricot seeds that still have cyanide in them but the important enzymes gone??? in order for the FDA to make money they have to be selling drugs. if they started selling herbs and stuff that cures and prevents diseases they wouldnt be making any where near as much as they are now. do some reasearch and you will see.

USarmy21 · Post by **USarmy21** » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:43 am

tater you are right. if eveyone stoped dieing then the human population would be crazy. but the FDA isnt banning stuff because all of that they want their money.