Do we need to believe each other to talk distillation?

[Kareltje]

To stop deranging of my other topic (viewtopic.php?f=16&t=69224), I start this one.
If someone wants another title, like "Are we each others Turing test?" or "Bashing Kareltje!" feel free to change it.

[Kareltje]

Kareltje It was your choice to lie to people on another forum , and again your choice to boast about it on this forum,

It was barely a choice. I liked to tell about it, but only after invitation. I did not boast about the lieing, but about standing upright after a whole day of shit from every part of the country and still keeping up my goods manners.

I can fully understand why some members here no longer take you word at face value, or trust what you say.
I know I never will again

Wise decision imo: one should NEVER trust what people say on face value! I don't!

...here or on the other forums I see you posting on. Ive often wondered what people on those forums would think if they new the cat story.

There is only one other forum I post on, nowadays. I wonder too. Based on an experiment I did I think the people there are much more relaxed and less jumpy than here.

[fizzix]

Most other distillation sites are so relaxed nothing happens for DAYS. That's what I like here.
I get answers and sometimes my shit put in place like NOW.

[Kareltje]

I reckin I have a right to wonder about something .Or have a opinion.Its you who made it plane who he dislikes .

You do, indeed. The formulation of your post (Here is the problem I have with this topic .) made me think your were posting as Admin, not as a co-member. Which makes things completely different.
No-one made it plain who I like or dislike, for I did not say/write that.
Of course I have my preferences, but until now I have no foes. I know Truckinbutch blocked my posts, but I did not block his and I read much of his posts, on or off topic, with pleasure.
As for you, Tater: I do not remember many remarks about distilling, but that might be my bad. As a Admin, I think that you can use some more humour and that you are quite stern in moderating.

But as you posed the question on my other thread: on topic.
There is no way how we can be sure our co-members are who they say they are. We might just be each others Turing tests. Maybe I am not a distiller myself, but my friend is. He only does not know any English and asked me to be his spokesman. Maybe I am a computerprogram, pretending to be a distiller in a far away country. But maybe you are too. There is no way of each other to be sure.

At first this might feel like you are walking on marbles: there is no certainty, no firm ground to stand on. Shattering and frightening. But just like one can learn to stand upright on slippery ice, one can learn to stand upright on a bed of marbles.

Speaking for myself: I am not on HD to find people I like. I am here to learn, discuss and teach about distilling. Everything that is said in that respect, I check with what I already know about distilling, physics, chemics, biology, technics.
All the rest is additional.

[pfshine]

Do you guys hear that? I..I..I think it's....... Yep. It's Dr Phil and Jerry Springer running this way.

[Kareltje]

I think it's unfair to accuse members very fast being a troll. And that's what you do with him. Right or wrong doesn't matter. I remember threads where the admins/mods stopped such behaviour. And obviously the cats story wasn't enough for the mods/admins to call him a troll. Otherwise you would have banned him.
You simply posted here to damage his reputation. When I go to a thread and write "I have a problem with this topic, because the OP wrote 6 months ago ... Do you really want to help somebody like him?" I don't think you will condone it.

I appreciate it that you come to my defense, but do not burn your own fingers. Don't get into problems on my behalf! It is just internet.
To my very surprise, you seem to jump to conclusions about Taters motives.
Both on schnapsbrennen and on HD I know you as a very experienced distiller with wise and solid advice, so this fast interpretations astonished me. And I guess I am a bit less fierce than you are.

By the way: I am surprised about the mood on schnapsbrennen: there is hardly any off topic posting, let alone quarreling. Or do I miss a lot? How do they do that?

[Kareltje]

Most other distillation sites are so relaxed nothing happens for DAYS. That's what I like here.
I get answers and sometimes my shit put in place like NOW.

Do you guys hear that? I..I..I think it's....... Yep. It's Dr Phil and Jerry Springer running this way.

The question is: We all think the poster after the screen name and avatar is who he/she claims he is. And he has the still(s) he/she claims to have. But suppose he/she has lied about his identity and possessions and actions. Or he has lied elsewhere about another subject.
Can we trust his/her posts? Ever again? About any subject?
And if not: what to do?

[The Baker]

Kareltje said, 'The question is: We all think the poster after the screen name and avatar is who he/she claims he is. And he has the still(s) he/she claims to have. But suppose he/she has lied about his identity and possessions and actions. Or he has lied elsewhere about another subject.
Can we trust his/her posts? Ever again? About any subject?
And if not: what to do?'

My comment; and I believe it is on topic....

I studied a beginning class in anthropology.
And in order to interact with various communities professional anthropologists told the most outrageous lies; and held this to be righteous.
It actually shocked me.

Geoff

[Kareltje]

Definitely on topic!

I wonder.
What were those lies? To what purpose?
Why did it shock you?

I can imagine an anthropologist lies to believe in the same gods as his subjects. If he doesn't there will be constant discussion about his position and he will be denied admittance to some rituals.
Some years ago there was a journalist who pretended to be a muslim to study life in a muslim neighbourhood.
Some were deeply shocked and felt betrayed, some were more easy.

I think it depends on how close you feel it is to your identity. Religion is not close to my identity, nor is distillation.
Let alone my avatar.

[butterpants]

Most other distillation sites are so relaxed nothing happens for DAYS. That's what I like here.
I get answers and sometimes my shit put in place like NOW.

This

[Tater]

I reckin I have a right to wonder about something .Or have a opinion.Its you who made it plane who he dislikes .

You do, indeed. The formulation of your post (Here is the problem I have with this topic .) made me think your were posting as Admin, not as a co-member. Which makes things completely different.
No-one made it plain who I like or dislike, for I did not say/write that.
Of course I have my preferences, but until now I have no foes. I know Truckinbutch blocked my posts, but I did not block his and I read much of his posts, on or off topic, with pleasure.
As for you, Tater: I do not remember many remarks about distilling, but that might be my bad. As a Admin, I think that you can use some more humour and that you are quite stern in moderating.

But as you posed the question on my other thread: on topic.
There is no way how we can be sure our co-members are who they say they are. We might just be each others Turing tests. Maybe I am not a distiller myself, but my friend is. He only does not know any English and asked me to be his spokesman. Maybe I am a computerprogram, pretending to be a distiller in a far away country. But maybe you are too. There is no way of each other to be sure.

At first this might feel like you are walking on marbles: there is no certainty, no firm ground to stand on. Shattering and frightening. But just like one can learn to stand upright on slippery ice, one can learn to stand upright on a bed of marbles.

Speaking for myself: I am not on HD to find people I like. I am here to learn, discuss and teach about distilling. Everything that is said in that respect, I check with what I already know about distilling, physics, chemics, biology, technics.
All the rest is additional.

I wasn't referring to you in the dislike.I was referring to der wo disliking me .

[StillerBoy]

Do you guys hear that? I..I..I think it's....... Yep. It's Dr Phil and Jerry Springer running this way.

+1

There's lots of bull said everyday.. just have to learn to see the gems that are said now and then..
And to to able to see the gems, you have to have developed experience, and from those gems, one is able to continue his/her development of the hobby..

Mars

[Kareltje]

I wasn't referring to you in the dislike.I was referring to der wo disliking me .

OK, sorry. Arguments withdrawn!

[Pikey]

Kareltje said, 'The question is: We all think the poster after the screen name and avatar is who he/she claims he is. And he has the still(s) he/she claims to have. But suppose he/she has lied about his identity and possessions and actions. Or he has lied elsewhere about another subject.
Can we trust his/her posts? Ever again? About any subject?
And if not: what to do?'

My comment; and I believe it is on topic....

I studied a beginning class in anthropology.
And in order to interact with various communities professional anthropologists told the most outrageous lies; and held this to be righteous.
It actually shocked me.

Geoff

Excelent point Geoff,

I have a relative who is a professional (Expert witness level) psychologist and she routinely lies to her patients (you have to be a qualified doctor as well to operate at her level)

Anyone who has ever complained about anything will be very familiar with the lies "They tell " in order to evade liability and we all routinely lie to our own children - the most disgraceful lies of all ! "Father Xmas" Tooth fairy" " Easter Bunny" - we teach them that lies are perfectly normal parts of everyday life and are quite acceptable. As teenagers, they get quite adept at it -

To quote "Judge Judy" "How do you know when a teenager is lying ? - Her lips are moving ! "

Whenever anyone says to me "I don't lie" - I KNOW I have just met a liar !

[Edit - c'mon guys get off this guy's back - what did he do ?

In a moment of lowered guard, thinking he was among friends, he related an experience ! - That's all !

Perhaps he was wrong thinking he was among friends ? - I dunno ! ]

[googe]

No we dont need to believe each other to talk distilling, i see people for who they are, if i see they talk shit, i ignore there information, if i see people provide valid information, i listen to them. Saying that, it is hard to not get caught up in situations, and not ignore people when they talk shit or annoy you. As to why im posting here . Through my learning here ive come to learn who i trust and who i dont.

[cede]

Well, I did not followed your life as I do not care at all.
What I saw is that Tater came talking about lying in one thread, and this had nothing to do with the thread. I do not understand why this happened and I think this should be kept in the background in private messages.
He's an admin, he choose to do whatever he felt being right, and everyone can forge his own opinion on this.
Everyone has an opinion about any other people, that's how we are as humans.

I do believe in free speech.
You can lie and I can trust you or not trust you but this is my choice and not anymore your problem as you said what you had to say and it does not belong to you anymore.
Many people in real life and even more on boards have tendencies to lie, and it's human.
There's nothing new here.
I take what I want, I forge my own opinion and I sleep well.

I don't care the truth about lie

[The Baker]

Hi, folks,
I just did this and it disappeared, probably forgot to hit 'submit'.
Kareltje, you asked, 'What were those lies? To what purpose?'.
And then answered your own question very lucidly.

Why was I shocked at the lies of the anthropologists?
I have told the occasional whopper, either to ease a social situation or (shock, horror) to avoid being found out for something maybe very naughty I had done.
But I was raised religious (!) and still firmly believe that to lie is to sin.

Geoff

[kiwi Bruce]

Anyone from Aussie or home can back me up on this...we are the biggest bullshitters on the the planet...IN THE BOOZER! It's expected! If you can't bullshit with your mates, what's the point of going to the boozer! Not just the "one that got away" stories, but the 18 year old hot blond honey you HAD to say NOOO! to, that got away! It's like a running joke...or the liar's bench here on HD. However, when I lived in England or for that matter Germany, it was totally different. There is a correct place for everything. Do I believe everyone on this forum...more so than I believe the mugs on the "Earth worshiping, tree huggers" site, for damn sure. BUT do I DISBELIEVE everyone on this site...no! We have one thing in common...we like to drink, and we like to make what we drink...we can't be all that bad, in my book. So just remember...DRUNKS CAN"T LIE! As the Romans used to say...In vino veritas, in aqua sanitas. in wine is truth, in water health. If you believe that I'll tell you another one!

[HDNB]

.....

[cede]

But I was raised religious (!) and still firmly believe that to lie is to sin.

Sorry about that Geoff but....
Men have invented God, but the opposite remains to be proved.
You might have been raised in a lie ! So do I.

[Pikey]

But I was raised religious (!) and still firmly believe that to lie is to sin.

Sorry about that Geoff but....
Men have invented God, but the opposite remains to be proved.
You might have been raised in a lie ! So do I.

he-he - You got that one in before me !

[nerdybrewer]

Like a very few others here I have actually been fortunate enough to spend some time with other members of this forum in person.
I've found them to be authentic good people, and look forward to whenever we will meet again.
Raise a glass together, break bread - maybe have a little smoked Salmon.
Talk or lie about our recent mash, recent run, how much of a bitch it is to strain out the corn mush.
I like to give others the same length of rope that I feel I need and those HD members I've met are just the best guys around!
Now I've been out of it a bit lately so forgive my not being aware of the controversy, I guess that's probably for the best.
Keep on, keep stillin', be safe!

[thecroweater]

Well Charlie ole son to answer the title question, Yes there needs to be an element of trust for a forum to work. I don't need to believe you are who you say you are or that you care to much for me but I need to know your information is what you know or strongly believe to be the truth and the reasons why. When I say you I mean anyone not particularly you personally. I don't particularly care so much about ya pussy forum antics although it did raise an eyebrow, I do care much more about the accuracy about information posted specific to distillation and if I think something is misleading I will question it or if I know it to be wrong will denounce it and do all I can to discredit such fallacies. Making a fine drink is challenging enough for new chums without misleading crap wasting their time and money. I have come to understand and except you are not a fan of myself and my style, I'm well aware you are not the lone ranger there (although I'm not aware you have called for me to be banned yet so that's a plus I guess ). I pretty much am who I seem to be as those many that have met me can for better or worse attest, trust is built by character and if it can't be then by collaborating facts. I read as many posts as possible as you should expect from a mod but I did to a slightly lesser degree before being a mod and have found even ppl who's knowledge I have less faith in sometimes have a lessen worth the learning, even a broken clock is right twice a day .
You related a story where you pretended to be someone you weren't then were dismayed your trust was questioned yet you did so surely knowing that would be the consequence on a whole I like reading most of your posts as they seem to be factual . On facts I would like to ad kiwis bullshit way more than Aussies and double checking their yarns is not unwise

[Kareltje]

the croweater wrote:

I have come to understand and except you are not a fan of myself and my style,

That definitely is not true! I had the impression we exchanged some jokes, even.

Very interesting how a whole range of opinions takes shape!
And still some sort of common opinion about distilling.

[MoonBreath]

Its fairly easy to decipher the posers from the real McCoys..
Mostly arguing other folks methods and equipment design, while never postn pics or anything else experience related personal contributions..Or nonconfirmed self believed methods..While never posting detailed information,
No recipes either, mostly posting off topic with information gleaned from others hard work and research, often posting others links/threads, while critiquing them through web info, not actual application and production.
Always posting common pics from other sites, claiming as theirs..Always claiming success.
Then when caught (because there is NO Way to fake), they go to other forums that accept that fraud.

[sltm1]

I just read this whole thread and all I can say is.....there's 10-15 minutes I just wasted that I'll never get back.

[jb-texshine]

I just want to take this time to stand up and say that I am the real Slim Shady and that why I don't have an avatar is so no one will recognise me...

Karel,I gotta say, I don't blame you for trolling the cat people. It's just too fun and so easy,lol!

Shady,out.

[Mike6090]

There are a lot of new guys like me that don’t know anything. We don’t even know that we don’t know so it’s important to remember your teaching us. Should I trust you? I as a student should always verify everything anyone says. The thing is thought you could hurt people. Are you ok with that? I would not be. Somethings you just don’t joke about. Some things you can and inside jokes can be pretty funny.

Something to consider.

[Kareltje]

There are a lot of new guys like me that don’t know anything. We don’t even know that we don’t know so it’s important to remember your teaching us. Should I trust you? I as a student should always verify everything anyone says. The thing is thought you could hurt people. Are you ok with that? I would not be. Somethings you just don’t joke about. Some things you can and inside jokes can be pretty funny.

Something to consider.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

That indeed is a serious point: teaching people who want to learn.
But even then lying is inevitable. When you first start to calculate they tell you 2 minus 3 is impossible. Some classes later it suddenly is possible, because we invent negative numbers and debts , but then they tell you the root of a negative number is impossible. Later they invent i: the root of -1. And so on. The most important thing I learned at university was the question: Can it be true what they try to make me believe?
But I agree with you: a teacher or instructor should never lead his student to harm or danger.

Whether people are hurt is a more complex matter, because that is for a large part their own doing. The same words I said made one person laugh, one other sad and another other afraid. Not my fault, but the result of their own processing these words.

[heynonny]

I have learned over the years to take everything with a grain of salt. I dont think anyone, anywhere, purposely lies, (on forums, that is), but I sometimes might doubt the competency of some posters. Some questions I have seen, everywhere, make me wonder what they are doing 'there'. Where did they get that notion?? I sometimes think 'this dude should definitely NOT be doing (whatever). Some posts I would not offer any help/suggestions as when things go south, so to speak, some how some way, it would be my or anyone else who tries to help, our fault. On several forums I have people on my 'ignore list'. NOT HERE!! I dont know if one can even do that here.

I donno, this make sense?

-hey-

had another b-day, I'm 71 yrs young!