Spirit run math

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wpkluck
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Spirit run math

Post by wpkluck »

I placed this in OFF TOPIC, partly because I didn't know where it best fit, and partly to avoid those who are angered by newbie questions. :oops:

I was hoping someone here might check my math. I'm currently working a UJSSM (several generations). I'm working toward filling my new 5 gallon oak barrel, my old 1 gallon barrel, and then have a gallon to sip (while I wait for my sour mash to age, and while I'm making other varieties! :) So you see I'm trying to make at least 7 gallons of product. This is going to take awhile, with a 5 gallon pot!

So for planning purposes, I will eventually have 5 gallons of stripped product, for a spirit run. That product will be at 80p (40% ABV). I want the barrel strength to be 125p. Going straight from the online calculators, it looks like 5 gal of 40% ABV would yield 3 gal of 125p liquor, a combination of heads (>160p)/hearts/tails(<120p). I know everyone's mileage varies. If I plan to oak only the hearts, both my research, and my practice/experience, shows I should only count on 40% (of the 3 gal) of this being drinkable/hearts.

So the math would say that for 5 gallons of charge (stripped), I should get about 1.2 gallons of usable product:
  • 5 gallons charge @80p (x60%) ==> 3 gallons @125p (x40%) ==> 1.2 gallons hearts to oak
So if I'm targeting 7 gallons of finished product to oak, the math says I'll need about 30 gallons of stripped charge:
  • 7 gallons of hearts (/40%) from 17.5 gallons of alcohol @125p (/60%) from ~29 gallons of charge @80p
  • This would also give me ~3.5 gallons of heads (17.5 x 20%) to be used later (for up-proofing or?)
  • and ~3.5 gallons of tails (17.5 x 20%) (toss, or put in future thumper, depending on taste...)
  • and A WHOPPING ~15 gallons of backset (to dispose of)
This seems like a lot of work, with a 5 gallon pot! (UJSSM may be simple, but that doesn't mean it's easy!). Perhaps I've gone off the rails, but if someone wants to look over my shoulder, I'd appreciate it. (And if the question offends you, please feel free to ignore :angel: )

Anyway, I'm committed now! 2nd generation (10 gal) done fermenting, going in the pot tomorrow (along with the 1st gen product - should yield about 4-1/4 gallons of 80p, toward my 29 gallon charge (goal).

NEXT UP: How much time, corn, and sugar needed? :lol:
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

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Re: Spirit run math

Post by Deplorable »

There are two questions here.
The answer to the first question you ask is "it depends". It depends on what you consider hearts cut for your aging cask.
The answer to your 2nd question is also dependent on several factors. Such as potential abv of your ferment, how big your fermenter is, and how fast it ferments.

Fore some reference I can offer my 5 gallon cask experience for single malt.
It took about 9 weeks, 4 back to back ferments of 23 gallons at about 8% abv to get enough wide cut to fill the cask with 63% abv.
192 pounds of barley, 80 pounds of propane and 9 weekends in the garage. That's with a 13 gallon boiler and a 32 gallon fermenter.
So the short answer is "You get what you get".
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by wpkluck »

OK, how much time will this take? This is STRIPPING RUN MATH. Stripping runs (for my UJSSM, anyway) will keep all the heads/hearts/tails, running each batch to an 80p average (which will then go into a final set of SPIRIT runs).

I'm going to assume I can ferment 10 gallons of sugarhead each week (2 sessions with my 5 gallon pot). I also assume my wash will be 9% (based on OG-FG = 0.07). The 1st gen should yield 1 gallon at 80p, as should each generation AFTER the 2nd.

The 2nd generation yield is bumped, because the 1st gen proceeds are added to it:

- 1 gallon @40%ABV (0.4 gal alcohol) added to 10 gallons @9%ABV (0.9 gal alcohol)==> 1.3 gal alcohol in 11 gallons of charge = 11.8% wash, which should yield 1.5 gallons of 80p (seems like a rip-off! :) but that's what you have to do to get a sour mash)

So to get a 29 gallon charge (needed for my 7 gallons of hearts, for ageing and sippin'):
  • Gen 1/2: 1.5 gal of product
  • run 3: 1 additional gal
  • 4: 1 add'l, 3.5 total
  • 5: 1 add'l, 4.5 total
  • ...
  • run 28: last gal (whew!), 29.5 total gallons stripped (and perhaps more importantly, about 30 weeks of time!!!)
Again, simple, yes. Easy, perhaps. Quick? No way! THIS will teach you patience! (PLEASE, someone show me how wrong I am here. Yes, I have a 5 gallon pot, which means I'm stripping 2 times each week...).
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

Run it, X. Thump it, XX. If you get 1.5, well, I think you can do better!
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by wpkluck »

Deplorable wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:55 am There are two questions here.
The answer to the first question you ask is "it depends". It depends on what you consider hearts cut for your aging cask.
The answer to your 2nd question is also dependent on several factors. Such as potential abv of your ferment, how big your fermenter is, and how fast it ferments.

Fore some reference I can offer my 5 gallon cask experience for single malt.
It took about 9 weeks, 4 back to back ferments of 23 gallons at about 8% abv to get enough wide cut to fill the cask with 63% abv.
192 pounds of barley, 80 pounds of propane and 9 weekends in the garage. That's with a 13 gallon boiler and a 32 gallon fermenter.
So the short answer is "You get what you get".
Thanks, Deplorable. I'm basing my cuts on a 20/60/20 split (heads/hearts/tails), but in reality, I'm going to use more taste than ABV. Of course, since it's supposed to be a bourbon, I'll take out any heads >160p. I've been pretty consistent at 9%ABV of the ferment, so that's my assumption there. I have 2 5 gallon ferment buckets, and it usually completes in 4-5 days.

"You get what you get." So true. But I'm a planner; I like to predict the future. I will get what I get, and if I don't have the patience, I suppose I'll abandon the project before the 30 weeks are up (or find a better, faster way!).

Thanks for the comments.
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

Run it, X. Thump it, XX. If you get 1.5, well, I think you can do better!
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by Deplorable »

You want faster? Get a bigger fermenter. Strip more every Saturday, and spirit run on Sunday. Start your next ferment while you tend the still during spirit runs.
5 gallon strips shouldn't take more than a couple hours heat on to recharging and turning heat back on.
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by wpkluck »

Deplorable wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:19 am You want faster? Get a bigger fermenter. Strip more every Saturday, and spirit run on Sunday. Start your next ferment while you tend the still during spirit runs.
5 gallon strips shouldn't take more than a couple hours heat on to recharging and turning heat back on.
I was considering that last night. Let's say I got a 55 gallon barrel for fermenting. Yes, I'd be done in 5-7 days with the ferment. I'm still constrained by my 5 gallon pot. Not only that, I'd have to strip it all right away (5 gallons x 2-3 hrs, x 10 runs), or the wash may go to vinegar. Plus, it wouldn't be a UJSSM (but I get your point...).

So another newbie was asking (on FB) for advice before he started. I've only been in this for about 6 months now, and I told him my only regret was going so small on the pot. 10 gallons, would have been preferrable, 15 gal better. I can always run a smaller batch, but the only lever I have now is time (by running multiple times). I'm sure I'll be upgrading soon...
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

Run it, X. Thump it, XX. If you get 1.5, well, I think you can do better!
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by Deplorable »

Just because you have a 50 gallon fermenter doesn't mean you have to fill it to the top. It also doesn't mean you have to strip it all in one day. That's what 5 gallon buckets and lids are for.
Do 25 gallon ferments. You'll get 20 gallons to strip giving you 5 gallons for a spirit run.
Thats essentially what I conveyed in my first reply.
If you can't strip 20 gallons in a day, it will be fine in clean 5 gallon buckets with a lid until you can. It doesn't turn to vinegar overnight, and it's been debated that letting the beer rest will improve flavors by letting the yeast have more time to clean up.
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by wpkluck »

Deplorable wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:51 am Just because you have a 50 gallon fermenter doesn't mean you have to fill it to the top. It also doesn't mean you have to strip it all in one day. That's what 5 gallon buckets and lids are for.
True, if I keep out the oxygen, I should (theoretically) be able to not worry about spoilage. Good catch.
Deplorable wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:51 am If you can't strip 20 gallons in a day, it will be fine in clean 5 gallon buckets with a lid until you can. It doesn't turn to vinegar overnight, and it's been debated that letting the beer rest will improve flavors by letting the yeast have more time to clean up.
You're right, of course. I realistically can only strip 10 gallons in a day, and I only have one day per week to distill. It never hurts to have more ferment capability. Luckily, I have lots of 5 gallon buckets, so the ferment is an open spigot at this point.

I'm a disciple (and certified Jonah) of Dr. Eli Goldratt. He was a physicist (now deceased). He wrote THE GOAL, and a lot of other business books related to process flow. His big concept was The Theory of Constraints, which basically said you can't improve the output of any system without alleviating 'the constraint', which is the single process bottleneck. (It is of note that the bottleneck can move around the system, based on what you improve, inputs, etc... But that's a story for a different day...)

Since I can ferment in any number of buckets (even now I'm fermenting 2X my distilling capacity of 1 day per week). My constraints (at this time) are the pot size, and the amount of time I can dedicate to distilling (a fixed number at 1 day per week, around 8 hours if I'm lucky). It appears the he only thing I can actually vary/alleviate is the pot capacity.

Not that this will save me ANY time in the actual distilling (you're right, I can strip 5 gal in 2-3 hrs, 10 gal in 5 hrs or so - the SPIRIT runs take 4-6 hrs alone), it only saves me time in switching over ferment buckets. If I'm doing one ferment bucket at a time, I set up once. If I'm going to run more, I have to set up again. With a larger pot, I save the setup time (That's another Dr. altogether, Dr. Shigeo Shingo.... Yeah, I'm also a Lean Master, another story, for another day...). (This tells me that quick release fittings will help in this department...)

That's what these conversations are for! I appreciate the input, it's making me stick to the actual analysis, and my process management roots.
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

Run it, X. Thump it, XX. If you get 1.5, well, I think you can do better!
It's EASY to make good liquor. It's even EASIER to make bad liquor!
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by 30xs »

I’m not sure your heat source, but a 15.5 keg with a 5500 watt element would allow you to strip three times the wash in a single pass and I’m usually done in 2-3 hours. If your condenser can keep up I’d say go bigger on both boiler and fermenters.

Let’s just use a hypothetical example.
100 gallons wash equals 5 gallon aging stock.
5 gallon pot 25 strips is 50-75 hours
15 gallon pot 8 strips is 16-24 hours

I’m not saying that you can’t do it with a small setup, but it could become a task rather than an enjoyment having such a large goal. Aging smaller amounts on wood in jars could make it simpler until you upsize and you’d have aged liquor by the time the small pot had finally made enough to even fill the barrel.
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by Deplorable »

Well, as a lean master, you can continue to ask why until you arrive at the true root cause and alleviate that. There are many tools in the lean tool box to use. Seens the best for your predicament is the "fish bone" or Ishikawa diagram.
Efficiency improvements are many, and in lean thinking, playing "small ball" will yeild good gains, but picking the low hanging fruit of efficiency of scale also needs to be considered.
Determine the outcome you desire, identify your constraints and eliminate them, removing the biggest rocks first. Moving on to the smaller rocks.
In my case, the efficiency of my still was the biggest constraint. So, I built a more efficient still and cut my stripping times in half and my spirit run times by almost 30%. It also reduced my cooling water usage by nearly 50%.
Now I can focus on yeild, and the effects of fermentation on my keep cuts is the first thing I'm focused on.
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by wpkluck »

Deplorable wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:55 am Well, as a lean master, you can continue to ask why until you arrive at the true root cause and alleviate that. There are many tools in the lean tool box to use. Seens the best for your predicament is the "fish bone" or Ishikawa diagram.
Efficiency improvements are many, and in lean thinking, playing "small ball" will yeild good gains, but picking the low hanging fruit of efficiency of scale also needs to be considered.
Determine the outcome you desire, identify your constraints and eliminate them, removing the biggest rocks first. Moving on to the smaller rocks.
In my case, the efficiency of my still was the biggest constraint. So, I built a more efficient still and cut my stripping times in half and my spirit run times by almost 30%. It also reduced my cooling water usage by nearly 50%.
Now I can focus on yeild, and the effects of fermentation on my keep cuts is the first thing I'm focused on.
Deplorable, you totally get me. We should have a drink sometime! I certainly have to work on still efficiency, and I have to also work on volume loss (short ferments, yielding less than a full 5 gallons. - An extra ferment bucket will certainly take care of that!). Efficiency of scale can partly be addressed by reducing setup times (I have to do the math!).

Stripping time reduced by half is impressive! I only have a few runs under my belt, but I keep good records. I'll pay particular attention to that now. Cooling water - what a bitch! I don't have access to a constant stream, so I have to use ice. I was buying it (sure, it's cheap, but a cost nonetheless). I have an extra freezer, so I make my own now. As I scale up, I'll use more, and have to solve for that when it becomes a the constraint. Good to know I'm not the only one considering that.

Thank you, my friend!
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

Run it, X. Thump it, XX. If you get 1.5, well, I think you can do better!
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Re: Spirit run math

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30xs wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:43 am I’m not sure your heat source, but a 15.5 keg with a 5500 watt element would allow you to strip three times the wash in a single pass and I’m usually done in 2-3 hours. If your condenser can keep up I’d say go bigger on both boiler and fermenters.

Let’s just use a hypothetical example.
100 gallons wash equals 5 gallon aging stock.
5 gallon pot 25 strips is 50-75 hours
15 gallon pot 8 strips is 16-24 hours

I’m not saying that you can’t do it with a small setup, but it could become a task rather than an enjoyment having such a large goal. Aging smaller amounts on wood in jars could make it simpler until you upsize and you’d have aged liquor by the time the small pot had finally made enough to even fill the barrel.
30xs - I know we've had a run-in in the past, I appreciate the considered response.

My heat source is propane, on my 5 gallon pot. Sounds like you're saying electric is the way to go. Certainly more controllable, I'll give you that. Did you ever use flame?

In order to strip 3x the wash, I'll need to put an opening at the top of my (pre-fab North Georgia - forgive me, I'm a noob!) pot. That would allow me to keep her running without having to break down between charges.

On the stripping runs, I haven't had issues with the condenser (are you talking the ice consumption?) - no puking into condenser or thumper - plenty of head space). Your numbers seem to make sense to me (understanding that noobs will be less efficient in both yields and time - something to shoot for).

The aging is a good call. I have a few wood spirals. They do the job much faster. I have a gallon bbl, it seemed a lot slower. I have to then assume my new 5 gallon bbl will perform even slower. That's why I'm targeting 7 gallons (5 new bbl, 1 old bbl, 1 for testing/stick/flavors/sippin').

Thanks!
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

Run it, X. Thump it, XX. If you get 1.5, well, I think you can do better!
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by Deplorable »

On the subject of cooling water, I watched a video(shared on this forum) where the guy used a small chest freezer sealed at the seams, full of water. He turns it on the day before he begins running to freeze about half the water. Then just leaves it running through the run. I thought it was pretty ingenious.
It provides a constant supply of cold water, no need to tend to ice, and only one vessel rather than a freezer full of ice vlocks to transfer to a barrel of water.
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Re: Spirit run math

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Deplorable wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 11:17 am On the subject of cooling water, I watched a video(shared on this forum) where the guy used a small chest freezer sealed at the seams, full of water. He turns it on the day before he begins running to freeze about half the water. Then just leaves it running through the run. I thought it was pretty ingenious.
It provides a constant supply of cold water, no need to tend to ice, and only one vessel rather than a freezer full of ice vlocks to transfer to a barrel of water.
Interesting. I’m on Offerup now, might be able to solve that for under $100. Would be money well spent!
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

Run it, X. Thump it, XX. If you get 1.5, well, I think you can do better!
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by jonnys_spirit »

If you want to be more efficient with the still you have at the moment you could up your fermenter to a 32 gallon brute pretty easy so you don't have to wait as long to do the next ferment and you could use your buckets to hold unrun beer.

Doing 3-4 full strips charged with wash/beer then a full charge of low wines is the most efficient time and product output wise. If you;re going for efficiency with the goal to make five gallons of hearts then strip hard and fast enough times to charge your boiler (and thumper) with low wines...

As you point out it takes a lot of beer to make whiskey. I get somewhere between 2-3 gallons of 125pf from about 50 gallons of beer so running about 100 gallons total and maybe even a little more (drinking stock) you're looking at about 20x+ strip runs in a five gallon and 6-8 spirit runs.. Sound about right?

You can certainly recycle feints and mix low wines with wash or some combination but you're still going to need to run all the beer to get low wines so might as well run it as hard and fast as you can then spirit run and cut the low wines.

Recommend to save fractions you choose as your feints cut for a dedicated all feints run...

For drinking stock in the meantime consider keeping some white hearts of hearts for immediate use...

Cheers!
jonny

EDIT:
I realized that you might not have storage capacity for five gallons of low wines so would recommend 3 gallon carboys or similar. I started off making wine and have quite a few and find them to be invaluable for clearing beer, low wines storage, and feints storage... More containers though they seem to accumulate lol..
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by wpkluck »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:21 pm As you point out it takes a lot of beer to make whiskey. I get somewhere between 2-3 gallons of 125pf from about 50 gallons of beer so running about 100 gallons total and maybe even a little more (drinking stock) you're looking at about 20x+ strip runs in a five gallon and 6-8 spirit runs.. Sound about right?

You can certainly recycle feints and mix low wines with wash or some combination but you're still going to need to run all the beer to get low wines so might as well run it as hard and fast as you can then spirit run and cut the low wines.

Recommend to save fractions you choose as your feints cut for a dedicated all feints run...

For drinking stock in the meantime consider keeping some white hearts of hearts for immediate use...

Right on, jonny! :thumbup:
jonnys_spirit wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:21 pm I realized that you might not have storage capacity for five gallons of low wines so would recommend 3 gallon carboys or similar. I started off making wine and have quite a few and find them to be invaluable for clearing beer, low wines storage, and feints storage... More containers though they seem to accumulate lol..
Actually, I've been picking up 5 gallon glass carboys for about $5 each, on OfferUp, whenever I get a chance. They're getting rarer and rarer, as plastic water bottles are now the norm. Gonna get worse, as no one is really in the office now! I can store about 30 gal of low wines, and if I SPIRIT as I go, storage won't be an issue. But as you point out, the containers are getting to be an issue in my garage! :ebiggrin:
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

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Re: Spirit run math

Post by SaltyStaves »

wpkluck wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:14 am
So for planning purposes, I will eventually have 5 gallons of stripped product, for a spirit run. That product will be at 80p (40% ABV).
I wouldn't be targeting 40% ABV for my pot stilled UJSSM low wines. Especially for maturing. Even for enjoying neat, I'd be stripping longer than that.
My least successful UJSSM came from 40% ABV low wines. It was both a little harsh and boring.

Generally I'll add a couple of litres of fresh wash to the low wines, which dilutes them even further. More often then not, they are in the high 20 to low 30's for the spirit run.
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by SomethingObscure »

Deplorable wrote:On the subject of cooling water, I watched a video(shared on this forum) where the guy used a small chest freezer sealed at the seams, full of water. He turns it on the day before he begins running to freeze about half the water. Then just leaves it running through the run. I thought it was pretty ingenious.
It provides a constant supply of cold water, no need to tend to ice, and only one vessel rather than a freezer full of ice vlocks to transfer to a barrel of water.
That was me. https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 15&t=82080

A really great way to keep constant coolant temp.

Cheers SomethingObscure
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by wpkluck »

UPDATE: Ok, so we all know there is a difference between theory and practice. In reality, these are the numbers...

10 gal of 9% wash. Added 1.7 gal of 80p, hydro'd out FG 1.00 (from 1.09), so 11.7 gal of 11.6%. Should give 3.2 gal @ 80p. It gave 2.3 gal, at 112p (which is right on the money, conversion-wise). Seems efficient enough (squeezed a few other OZs out for testing purposes). Clear as a bell, ready for a spirit run. Proofed down to 80 for the spirit run, the 3.2 gal should give ~30 oz of hearts, but pending a full 5 gal spirit charge.

The backset went back in (about 2 gal per bucket), and now on to Gen3 (happily bubbling away - pretty frantically actually). Didn't add any new corn this round - seemed to be a lot of accumulation, reducing future stripping volumes - just pulled off the grey corn, and left about 2" of yellow at the bottom of the buckets). Added 7# shug each, container of oyster shell (pH looked low, but hey, testing with my hot tub strips, which only tests down to 6.2! The oysters won't hurt, and if they can't help, well, the frantic bubbling shows there really isn't an issue there). The ferment seemed slow last time, I think because the SG was so high (1.09). Added water this time, to reduce the SG to 1.7, seems to be working great.
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

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Re: Spirit run math

Post by bilgriss »

I'm a little late to the discussion, but I've found that the best way to know what you get is measure it AFTER you're done.
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by wpkluck »

bilgriss wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:30 am I'm a little late to the discussion, but I've found that the best way to know what you get is measure it AFTER you're done.
No question about that. But predicting what you could or should get, then comparing with results, allows you to change the process to improve for next time.
- The Doubler (5 gal pot w/thumper)

Run it, X. Thump it, XX. If you get 1.5, well, I think you can do better!
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by SmokyMtn »

wpkluck wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:13 am
bilgriss wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:30 am I'm a little late to the discussion, but I've found that the best way to know what you get is measure it AFTER you're done.
No question about that. But predicting what you could or should get, then comparing with results, allows you to change the process to improve for next time.
I know your occupation. And it seems you really enjoy crunching numbers, maybe more than distilling? I hope you don't burn yourself out worrying about all this math and what if's. Outside looking in, seems exhausting and stressful. Another approach might be to go by the recipe. Let nature and science do their thing. And quit worrying. You're gonna end up with an ulcer.

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Deplorable
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by Deplorable »

SmokyMtn wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:13 pm
wpkluck wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:13 am
bilgriss wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:30 am I'm a little late to the discussion, but I've found that the best way to know what you get is measure it AFTER you're done.
No question about that. But predicting what you could or should get, then comparing with results, allows you to change the process to improve for next time.
I know your occupation. And it seems you really enjoy crunching numbers, maybe more than distilling? I hope you don't burn yourself out worrying about all this math and what if's. Outside looking in, seems exhausting and stressful. Another approach might be to go by the recipe. Let nature and science do their thing. And quit worrying. You're gonna end up with an ulcer.

You hobby how you want. Relax and enjoy
OP has been pretty quiet lately 🤔 has he already succumbed to the ulcer?
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by Not sure »

OP broke down a LOT of math
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by Badmotivator »

I know I’m late to this party, but I have a couple of suggestions for wpkluck that might help:

1. You should shorten your spirit run times by running them at high power. I know that it is basically orthodoxy that spirit runs have to be run slower on a pot still, but I am a die-hard heretic. My research (page 12 of this thread with chartzengraphs) showed that slow spirit runs cost you lots of time for very very little benefit. In a long thread I summarized the results of my experiments this way:

“An ideal pot still will put out the same distillate whether you run it fast or slow. A real world pot still has some passive reflux, ranging from insignificant to small but significant. If your Reflux Ratio (heat loss divided by your heat input) is around .2 or higher you will get noticeably higher initial ABV and separation (though not nearly as much as one plate adds), and slightly wider or better tasting hearts. There is usually a severe time penalty for getting that. A thumper or a plate with active reflux is a far more time-efficient method of widening hearts and shortening run times. The more you chase passive reflux, the more you ought to think about switching to multiple-stage distillation. “

2. If you haven’t already, take a look at “badmotivator barrels” (Thread on HD). I know you have a 5gal to fill, but going forward you’d probably benefit from having a really great way to properly age smaller quantities. I’d advise skipping that 1gal barrel altogether.

Hope that helps. BTW, I get the math and planning thing and admire your diligence. :)
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by NormandieStill »

Badmotivator wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:12 pm 1. You should shorten your spirit run times by running them at high power. I know that it is basically orthodoxy that spirit runs have to be run slower on a pot still, but I am a die-hard heretic. My research (page 12 of this thread with chartzengraphs) showed that slow spirit runs cost you lots of time for very very little benefit. In a long thread I summarized the results of my experiments this way:
I'm glad you still stand by your research. I read that thread from start to finish a few weeks ago and planning on doing my own tests in the future. Interestingly a traditional Calvados distillery that publishes their method from A-Z, talks about running the hearts faster to carry over more flavour, but my pot still doesn't even begin to resemble theirs so I don't know how well it applies.
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Re: Spirit run math

Post by Butch27 »

The OP needs to filter through the knowledge here on the site. There are ways of getting this done more efficiently for both time and cooling water. It looks like he has gone AWOL but really all he has to do is look. He is spending too much time crunching numbers and fretting over that rather than working on solving the problem.
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