Is yours really better than commercial?
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- Swill Maker
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I was just told by an old distiller two words of wisdom that have had more impact in my last year than all the knowledge I "thought" I had.
Cut all your booze to 40%-80proof to serve to others, otherwise you will be seen as that moonshiner and not like you are trying to make a product that is comparable if not better than commercial stuff.
Run fast for the first run and taste along the way in order to see what "crap or quality" is coming off. If it tastes good, run it again at that speed, if bad then change it up.
I just did a run that was heaven off the still and it ran about a liter every 15 minutes. I had 3 gallons in 3 hours...done.
I think that with more practice and time I can make something that tastes nothing like any commercial spirit I have ever tasted. Some day, god willing, we might all have a shot (whether we accept or not) at going commercial and will remember the great things we can make and not just try to make a quick buck.
Cut all your booze to 40%-80proof to serve to others, otherwise you will be seen as that moonshiner and not like you are trying to make a product that is comparable if not better than commercial stuff.
Run fast for the first run and taste along the way in order to see what "crap or quality" is coming off. If it tastes good, run it again at that speed, if bad then change it up.
I just did a run that was heaven off the still and it ran about a liter every 15 minutes. I had 3 gallons in 3 hours...done.
I think that with more practice and time I can make something that tastes nothing like any commercial spirit I have ever tasted. Some day, god willing, we might all have a shot (whether we accept or not) at going commercial and will remember the great things we can make and not just try to make a quick buck.
water + sugar + yeast = wine
water + flour + yeast = bread
wine + bread = two things I can make at home
water + flour + yeast = bread
wine + bread = two things I can make at home
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- Master of Distillation
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I've been there before.... great feeling... almost like your cheating, but the proof is in the bottle.I just did a run that was heaven off the still and it ran about a liter every 15 minutes. I had 3 gallons in 3 hours...done.
this is the internet
- Honest_Liberty
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
Thread resurrection!!!!
I just gave my newly ran feintkenshine to friends to have a drink at 72%.
They both couldn't believe how smooth it was for that strength! And I went deeper into tails ~45% abv jar, because it had so much anise.
It's all my feints I've ever made and it's so freaking good even with a bit of heads and tails because I thought the green apple of the late heads smelled wonderful and I didn't get any awful heads tasting notes.
Anyway, Im finding the sloppiness of commercial contributes so much more complexity than when I make strict cuts so I'm going wider and wider with my cuts for aging
I just gave my newly ran feintkenshine to friends to have a drink at 72%.
They both couldn't believe how smooth it was for that strength! And I went deeper into tails ~45% abv jar, because it had so much anise.
It's all my feints I've ever made and it's so freaking good even with a bit of heads and tails because I thought the green apple of the late heads smelled wonderful and I didn't get any awful heads tasting notes.
Anyway, Im finding the sloppiness of commercial contributes so much more complexity than when I make strict cuts so I'm going wider and wider with my cuts for aging
Sweetfeed 100 proof for drinking white
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I find strict cuts eminently more drinkable, but a little bland. I have been exploring more of the late heads and any of the appealing tails to add depth and complexity to things I intend to age, especially on wood.
I just did an all feints (mixed heads, tails and failed flavouring experiments) run and got some good clean booze in my CCVM rig. Early heads were relegated to the foreshots jug but the late heads and what little tails there were actually smell like a head-on collision between my AG whisky and my rum. Those feints I will re-recycle.
I still drink commercial booze but find I'm getting choosy about what, and because my AG isn't ripe yet. I go for styles / types I can't really make myself but continue to enjoy, like Islay Scotches. Other things like vodka and gin the missus and I prefer my product.
I just did an all feints (mixed heads, tails and failed flavouring experiments) run and got some good clean booze in my CCVM rig. Early heads were relegated to the foreshots jug but the late heads and what little tails there were actually smell like a head-on collision between my AG whisky and my rum. Those feints I will re-recycle.
I still drink commercial booze but find I'm getting choosy about what, and because my AG isn't ripe yet. I go for styles / types I can't really make myself but continue to enjoy, like Islay Scotches. Other things like vodka and gin the missus and I prefer my product.
----------
Zed
When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
Zed
When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I still like store scotch sometimes but after playing with cuts the past few years I like some of my drink too.i noticed after a year my sugar shine loses its bite and well the all grain I have will be a treat except for the first corn batch I totally over oaked
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason....
- SassyFrass
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I havent bought store bought likker in quite a few years. There may be something on the shelf I like better than mine, idk. I've had store bought when visiting friends houses or other events, but none of that was worth a second look. JMO.
SF
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
By current batch of neutral, watered down to 50% then mixed with 5% maple syrup is just AMAZING. Not too sweet but flavorful.
Nothing like commercial liquor.
Nothing like commercial liquor.
Shit I bought but shouldn't have :
1. Amazon 30L pot distiller
2. T-500 reflux column (good product but expensive)
3. Large 60L stock pot + 2" column
Now using 15.5gal KEG + 5500w electric + fully aircooled reflux condensor and product condenser.
1. Amazon 30L pot distiller
2. T-500 reflux column (good product but expensive)
3. Large 60L stock pot + 2" column
Now using 15.5gal KEG + 5500w electric + fully aircooled reflux condensor and product condenser.
- nerdybrewer
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
My Panela rum after sitting in a once used Bourbon barrel with chunks of red wine staves in it after 3 years is really something.
I keep more than most recommend and let the barrel do it's magic.
Very happy here.
I keep more than most recommend and let the barrel do it's magic.
Very happy here.
Cranky's spoonfeeding:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975
Time and Oak will sort it out.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=52975
Time and Oak will sort it out.
Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
To me, who is very new in relation to others here it is not necessarily the quality of the current product, but rather the knowledge that it is bringing. To know what heads or tails taste like. Is mine better than some, yes. All, no. It is starting to be better than what I am willing to pay for with any regularity. Progress is being made and curiosity and learning are continuing. As such it will only get better.
J
J
If in doubt leave it out.
- Oldvine Zin
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
You have the right attitude,Wait until you taste a 3 year old of your own makingJstroke wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:36 pm To me, who is very new in relation to others here it is not necessarily the quality of the current product, but rather the knowledge that it is bringing. To know what heads or tails taste like. Is mine better than some, yes. All, no. It is starting to be better than what I am willing to pay for with any regularity. Progress is being made and curiosity and learning are continuing. As such it will only get better.
J
OVZ
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
nerdybrewer wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:13 pm My Panela rum after sitting in a once used Bourbon barrel with chunks of red wine staves in it after 3 years is really something.
I keep more than most recommend and let the barrel do it's magic.
Very happy here.
Cheers
OVZ
- Honest_Liberty
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I can't wait to try after 3 years. My plan is to keep what I have now been aging for a month, add this all grain batch I started yesterday and hopefully have enough to fill up a 5 gallon carboy
I think I'll only add 3 sticks per gallon instead of the 4 sticks per T-Pee directions. I know they say one of the 5" sticks per quart
I think I'll only add 3 sticks per gallon instead of the 4 sticks per T-Pee directions. I know they say one of the 5" sticks per quart
Sweetfeed 100 proof for drinking white
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I normally find commercial products too dirty. I want clean stuff.
I had some surprising headaches (surprising given the small quantity drunk) with some Venezuelan rums and with some Italian "wood-aged" grappa. I think when the woods begins to play loud, the rest of the orchestra also must play louder and you end up with too many heads and tails, because of the too much wood.
I have come to the conclusion that US style "wood and gasoline" whisky is not good, and grappa is to be drunk white.
Regarding grappa, the common middle-shelf brands are not overly interesting. Real stuff can be wonderful but we talk about €50 per bottle and real artisanal stuff. I came to the conclusion that proper grappa is something hard to get for normal people at normal prices. Whiskys, I find them interesting also the cheap ones.
Regarding herbal spirits, with the exception of a few brands (bitter Campari in particular, which appears to be exemplary clean, but they are also helped by sugar) I tend to find them too dirty. Even my beloved Mistrà Pallini secco, Fernet Branca, Maraschino Luxardo seem to me to be cut too wide.
Consistency with commercial whisky I find pretty decent, but not so with cheap grappa. Cheap grappa is a lottery, one bottle can be surprisingly good, so you take note of the brand, and the next bottle is quite different in taste and quality and much worse. The industrial names are much more consistent but also not very interesing. I came to the conclusion that the big guys make a huge mixing between lots, so as to average out differences, while the small guy undergo the same product variation that we go through, especially for fruit distillates such as grappa. It's easier to have a uniform supply of grains, it is much more difficult to have a uniform supply of fruit or fruit derivatives.
I had some surprising headaches (surprising given the small quantity drunk) with some Venezuelan rums and with some Italian "wood-aged" grappa. I think when the woods begins to play loud, the rest of the orchestra also must play louder and you end up with too many heads and tails, because of the too much wood.
I have come to the conclusion that US style "wood and gasoline" whisky is not good, and grappa is to be drunk white.
Regarding grappa, the common middle-shelf brands are not overly interesting. Real stuff can be wonderful but we talk about €50 per bottle and real artisanal stuff. I came to the conclusion that proper grappa is something hard to get for normal people at normal prices. Whiskys, I find them interesting also the cheap ones.
Regarding herbal spirits, with the exception of a few brands (bitter Campari in particular, which appears to be exemplary clean, but they are also helped by sugar) I tend to find them too dirty. Even my beloved Mistrà Pallini secco, Fernet Branca, Maraschino Luxardo seem to me to be cut too wide.
Consistency with commercial whisky I find pretty decent, but not so with cheap grappa. Cheap grappa is a lottery, one bottle can be surprisingly good, so you take note of the brand, and the next bottle is quite different in taste and quality and much worse. The industrial names are much more consistent but also not very interesing. I came to the conclusion that the big guys make a huge mixing between lots, so as to average out differences, while the small guy undergo the same product variation that we go through, especially for fruit distillates such as grappa. It's easier to have a uniform supply of grains, it is much more difficult to have a uniform supply of fruit or fruit derivatives.
- Honest_Liberty
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
Birro- I haven't tried grappa. My ancestral spirit is Slivovitz and I haven't had one that was anything but horrible.
My issue with commercial whiskeys is the acetone. It ruins the nose immediately and especially compared to my all grain bourbon mash, it's not even close. But my cuts when super tight are almost all corn on the nose. I'll see about this recent recipe but I'm worried I won't get the complexity with tight cuts after 3 years on oak.
I've decided to put a real slight addition of late heads where it cuts into hearts and deep into tails down to maybe 40%.
The difficult part for me is the patience. I'm 37. I'm confident my recipes are plenty good based on drinking them white, but the aging, that's years!
I suppose if I don't like stuff I can blend it or re run it, but storage and the time, you know?
My issue with commercial whiskeys is the acetone. It ruins the nose immediately and especially compared to my all grain bourbon mash, it's not even close. But my cuts when super tight are almost all corn on the nose. I'll see about this recent recipe but I'm worried I won't get the complexity with tight cuts after 3 years on oak.
I've decided to put a real slight addition of late heads where it cuts into hearts and deep into tails down to maybe 40%.
The difficult part for me is the patience. I'm 37. I'm confident my recipes are plenty good based on drinking them white, but the aging, that's years!
I suppose if I don't like stuff I can blend it or re run it, but storage and the time, you know?
Sweetfeed 100 proof for drinking white
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
You think you have a problem?Honest_Liberty wrote: ↑Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:08 am Birro- I haven't tried grappa. My ancestral spirit is Slivovitz and I haven't had one that was anything but horrible.
My issue with commercial whiskeys is the acetone. It ruins the nose immediately and especially compared to my all grain bourbon mash, it's not even close. But my cuts when super tight are almost all corn on the nose. I'll see about this recent recipe but I'm worried I won't get the complexity with tight cuts after 3 years on oak.
I've decided to put a real slight addition of late heads where it cuts into hearts and deep into tails down to maybe 40%.
The difficult part for me is the patience. I'm 37. I'm confident my recipes are plenty good based on drinking them white, but the aging, that's years!
I suppose if I don't like stuff I can blend it or re run it, but storage and the time, you know?
I was born in 1941.
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
Yes mine is better. Just ask me I will tell you. LoL
My 9 year old all bran and UJSSM is pretty damn fine. Just saying.
My 9 year old all bran and UJSSM is pretty damn fine. Just saying.
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CM Still Mods
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Fu Man
Mr. Piss
That's Princess Piss to the haters.
- goinbroke2
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I already gave my 2 cents back in 09 on page one of this thread.
Going forward 12 years I’d like to “add” to my previous comment.
A lot of people... actually every other distiller I know (9) all use turbos and air distillers and then use essences to cover the taste/copy a commercial. The smell and taste is the same but there is no mouthfeel at all, it’s flavoured water. Everyone goes on about how good mine is but no one is willing to build an actual still or go through the process of cuts etc. Had many arguments with guys who are adamant that carbon and filters etc take everything bad out and if I’m not using filters, there’s is cleaner.
So, I don’t care anymore. You can’t fix stupid and you can’t change the mind of someone who doesn’t want to learn. I give the analogy of cutting up an orange, squeezing all the juice out, straining all the seeds and pulp out and voila, orange juice.
They take dirty ditch water, add some tang Orange crystals, voila, orange juice....
So is mine better? Of course it is, I can drink all night and not get a hangover. But do I even care anymore? Not really, wife likes mostly neutral in mixed drinks so a lot of the whisky I have has been sitting for a few years.
Life is good, lots of cheap, good liquor handy...
Going forward 12 years I’d like to “add” to my previous comment.
A lot of people... actually every other distiller I know (9) all use turbos and air distillers and then use essences to cover the taste/copy a commercial. The smell and taste is the same but there is no mouthfeel at all, it’s flavoured water. Everyone goes on about how good mine is but no one is willing to build an actual still or go through the process of cuts etc. Had many arguments with guys who are adamant that carbon and filters etc take everything bad out and if I’m not using filters, there’s is cleaner.
So, I don’t care anymore. You can’t fix stupid and you can’t change the mind of someone who doesn’t want to learn. I give the analogy of cutting up an orange, squeezing all the juice out, straining all the seeds and pulp out and voila, orange juice.
They take dirty ditch water, add some tang Orange crystals, voila, orange juice....
So is mine better? Of course it is, I can drink all night and not get a hangover. But do I even care anymore? Not really, wife likes mostly neutral in mixed drinks so a lot of the whisky I have has been sitting for a few years.
Life is good, lots of cheap, good liquor handy...
Numerous 57L kegs, some propane, one 220v electric with stilldragon controller. Keggle for all-Grain, two pot still tops for whisky, a 3" reflux with deflag for vodka. Coming up, a 4" perf plate column. Life is short, make whisky and drag race!
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I'll resurrect this thread when my spirits have aged long enough to say one way or the other. I will say that the white dog I've drank was all better that the crap they call white dog at the liquor store.
My hearts from a reflux feints run are very satisfying at 45 to 50%.
My hearts from a reflux feints run are very satisfying at 45 to 50%.
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
About a year ago I compared my year-old sticks-in-glass aged wheat bourbon to Makers Mark, another wheated bourbon. The MM had a much 'thicker' oak profile, while mine wasn't as saturated. But the complexity in mine far outweighed the almost 'bland' narrow-flavored Makers. I'm about to fill my first once-used 5gal bourbon barrel with a higher-rye bourbon, and look forward to seeing what that's gonna produce in a year (or two).
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I am bias and of course drinking your own is going to taste better. It’s like fishing much better than I can get in the store. Knowing this more than once with close friends and family members I have done blind taste tests and I am guessing close to 9 out of 10 times mine was chosen over the commercial product.
Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I don't think it's very hard to beat commercial (in your own opinion) once you figure out what components you like and don't like. I hate heads and I can taste heads in most commercial whiskey, so I leave them out of mine. So on and so forth. It would be harder to please the masses but nobody is trying to do that. I think mine is better than any commercial, but like Bushman said I'm probably a little biased.
Plain ole pot rig.
- Honest_Liberty
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I despise the nail polish of heads in every commercial bourbon I've ever had. But in my own aging process so far, but having just a c-hair of them never fully develops the typical bourbon style. Maybe I need to let it all age longer
Sweetfeed 100 proof for drinking white
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
- Oldvine Zin
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
Stay safe
OVZ
Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I recently listened to an interview with a large distillery head distiller and it came up that spirits final destination was to turn into acetone. The subject was about the popularity of really old whiskey. Sure wish I could remember where I heard it.. podcast i thinkHonest_Liberty wrote:I despise the nail polish of heads in every commercial bourbon I've ever had. But in my own aging process so far, but having just a c-hair of them never fully develops the typical bourbon style. Maybe I need to let it all age longer
- Honest_Liberty
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I hope you find it, as I would like to give it a listen
Sweetfeed 100 proof for drinking white
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
This must have been what I read.Honest_Liberty wrote:I hope you find it, as I would like to give it a listen
https://www.thedailybeast.com/stop-wast ... ts-too-old
- Honest_Liberty
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
well, that was about the only decent article I've read from the Daily Beast. I almost didn't read it because I said I would never read anything from that rag ever again.Getsmokin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:36 pmThis must have been what I read.Honest_Liberty wrote:I hope you find it, as I would like to give it a listen
https://www.thedailybeast.com/stop-wast ... ts-too-old
But, that was an interesting and insightful article. I'm going to call BS on this though:
And on the other side? “Too much wood extraction, first,” he said. “You’ve gone through the red and toasted layers, and now you’re getting those raw wood notes. You’re getting more oxygen, and you’re getting acetone. It’s one of the last stages of the degradation of complex organics. That’s where that nail polish remover [aroma] comes from.
I think the acetone comes from their continuous column process and maximizing profit, not from aging. I can't think of a single commercial bourbon I've ever had that didn't have acetone punch me in the nose from jump.
Sweetfeed 100 proof for drinking white
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
That is a very interesting article! Thanks for sharing. I was never a big fan of extremely old bourbon and now it all makes sense. I thought I was the odd man out or just didn't have a "sophisticated palate".Getsmokin wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 4:36 pmThis must have been what I read.Honest_Liberty wrote:I hope you find it, as I would like to give it a listen
https://www.thedailybeast.com/stop-wast ... ts-too-old
Plain ole pot rig.
Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
Agreed. Can't argue with chemistry and science. I do believe bourbon goes downhill after a certain point though.Honest_Liberty wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:50 pm I think the acetone comes from their continuous column process and maximizing profit, not from aging. I can't think of a single commercial bourbon I've ever had that didn't have acetone punch me in the nose from jump.
Plain ole pot rig.
- Honest_Liberty
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Re: Is yours really better than commercial?
I tried some 20 year old bourbon. it was AWFUL. it was a gift from our realtor after he closed on our third house in 6 years, making, I dunno, probably 30k off us alone (Screw Denver market. outrageous). Old Orphan Rhetoric 20 year. straight acetone, so maybe there is a point to that distiller but I just figured it was rot gun uncut filth that they let go for 20 years hoping it would clean up and then sell for $150 or whatever.River Rat wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:08 pmAgreed. Can't argue with chemistry and science. I do believe bourbon goes downhill after a certain point though.Honest_Liberty wrote: ↑Wed Feb 10, 2021 5:50 pm I think the acetone comes from their continuous column process and maximizing profit, not from aging. I can't think of a single commercial bourbon I've ever had that didn't have acetone punch me in the nose from jump.
It. Was. AWFUL.
EDIT: jiminy pete! $449! oh man, I could have stocked my bar something serious for that scratch
Sweetfeed 100 proof for drinking white
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste
All grain bourbon for testing my patience
Whatever else is left goes to the Homefree, because, I hate waste