Question Regarding Application for Permit

[Stringduster]

I love this forum and the never ending knowledge it provides to the distiller community. So thank you all!

I am currently in the process if getting our license. My brother owns a brewery in Indiana and we are slowly but surely going to expand and open a distillery. We received the application back and was asked to list my brothers residence. Herein lies the problem...He went through a divorce and is in the process of looking for property to build a house, so he is currently living with my parents...in Michigan. We are thinking we do not want to put a Michigan address on an Indiana application, assuming it might open a big ol' can of worms. So we are thinking of using my home address in Indiana saying he is living with me. My only caution is that I am the distiller so I have all my "gear" in my garage where I mash out and and run it. If we put my address, do I have to worry about excise coming to my property unannounced? I have never sold any product (and won't until 100% legal), just experimenting different recipe's for family and friends to try but don't want to take any unnecessary risks. Is this a legitimate worry? I just want to be 100% legit so I can get all my equipment to the brewery and start experimenting legally.

Any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated! Cheers!

[LWTCS]

I'd call the TTB and ask them. They are actually quite helpful.
Word your question accordingly.

Michael Stephenson
Office #513-684-2463

[Single Malt Yinzer]

Try asking at: http://adiforums.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

For the address issue: There is a larger audience of pro distillers at ADI along with consultants. I'm assuming that something like this has happened to one of them.

My only caution is that I am the distiller so I have all my "gear" in my garage where I mash out and and run it.

Several issues here: TTB will not allow you to have a distillery on a residential lot unless there is a separate building and distance of normally 50 feet between buildings. They may also ask to have a fence put up to physically separate the spaces. If your garage is attached to your house it is highly unlikely that you will get a license.

do I have to worry about excise coming to my property unannounced

Yes. They don't need a search warrant and you cannot refuse. While on site inspections are rare it does happen.

[LWTCS]

Look,,, your going to have to touch base sooner or later.
Your going to have to grow up and make a move if this is indeed what you are going to do.
Call the TTB and get it straight from the horses mouth. Then email them so that you have it documented with a time signature. They are pretty forgiving about the equipment being on sight as long as you are engaged in the application process.

If you are not ready/prepared to engage with the actual oversight body, then you are not ready to start a distillery.

[Stringduster]

I'd call the TTB and ask them. They are actually quite helpful.
Word your question accordingly.

Michael Stephenson
Office #513-684-2463

Thank you. I will give him a call!

[Stringduster]

Try asking at: http://adiforums.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Thanks I will check this out

For the address issue: There is a larger audience of pro distillers at ADI along with consultants. I'm assuming that something like this has happened to one of them.

My only caution is that I am the distiller so I have all my "gear" in my garage where I mash out and and run it.

"Several issues here: TTB will not allow you to have a distillery on a residential lot unless there is a separate building and distance of normally 50 feet between buildings. They may also ask to have a fence put up to physically separate the spaces. If your garage is attached to your house it is highly unlikely that you will get a license."

The distillery will be located at the same commercial property as the brewery, not my house. However, I didn't want to move my setup over there until the application has been approved and license granted.

[Huffy2k]

The distillery will be located at the same commercial property as the brewery, not my house. However, I didn't want to move my setup over there until the application has been approved and license granted.

That's actually another can of worms as you will have to deal with TTB's rules regarding alternating premises.

I don't think the Feds would actually care what your brothers current address is, I wouldn't be too concerned about that. You can always change your DSP after he finds a permanent address in Indiana. That said, I'd reach out to TTB for advice and/or post the question on adiforums.com. There are a couple ex TTB guys there that often provide very useful advice.

[LWTCS]

That's actually another can of worms as you will have to deal with TTB's rules regarding alternating premises.

There is no issue with alternating premises.

@stringduster,
Your not going to be inspected until all of your requisite equipment is in place.

[bluefish_dist]

The way the ttb application process goes, you should have all your equipment prior to applying for your permit. you will have to put serial numbers on all the boilers and condensers as they have to be registered with the ttb. Listing them on your application is effectively registering them.
The background information you provide needs to be correct as they will do a background check and look at your finances. They want to know if you are a criminal and where you get your money.

[LWTCS]

The way the ttb application process goes, you should have all your equipment prior to applying for your permit. you will have to put serial numbers on all the boilers and condensers as they have to be registered with the ttb. Listing them on your application is effectively registering them.
The background information you provide needs to be correct as they will do a background check and look at your finances. They want to know if you are a criminal and where you get your money.

+1
How ever you can also give them a purchase or invoice number if your equipment is being manufactured. Again,,,creating a relationship with your regional TTB rep/agent will help insure a smooth transition into the legal distillery.

[Huffy2k]

There is no issue with alternating premises.

I thought it required additional paperwork and red tape to navigate.

[LWTCS]

There is no issue with alternating premises.

I thought it required additional paperwork and red tape to navigate.

It would if he was actually going to use dual locations. But he is not. The distillery will be located at the Brewery.

[Fraser]

I have my DSP located on the same parcel of property as my family's winery, which also includes their residence. All separate buildings separated by more than 100 feet, which I believe was non-negotiable.

I should mention that at first my TTB officer wanted to deny my application on the merits that a DSP cannot be located on the same property as a residence. He said that the TTB can define "connected" to a private residence as existing on the same parcel of land. Maybe it wasn't smart of me but I pushed back pretty hard and told him that logic makes no sense to anyone. They ended up approving my application, but just be prepared to deal with some nonsense.

I also would caution you against volunteering to the TTB that you're engaging in any sort of unlicensed distilling activities.

If I were you I'd make sure your local municipality is agreeable to the use of your land for a distillery. They often have the most power to restrict your activities there by demanding you meet a high bar on fire codes, which can be pricey.

[EagleCliffs]

Yes, the TTB will deny permits when the distillery is connected to a residence via a yard. However, the yard mentioned in the regs is a loose collection of interconnected buildings, as in a port yard or a mill yard, not grass. It is under the fire safety codes. Push back when the separator is lawn rather than an industrial yard and you can get your permit approved.