Aging in jars w/ mycology filters?

[Benredbeard]

So for the air exchange for aging, another of my hobbies offers some ideas and I'm wondering if anyone else has tried these. If I'm WAY overthinking this go ahead and gimme the nudge, but I have this stuff laying about and the gradual air exchange thing got me thinking!! I understand that they will all contact alcohol vapor, and I'm thinking the first two may pass safety muster.

1) There are filter discs for mason jars that we use in mycology for sterile air exchange. They're made from glass microfiber usually so that they can be autoclaved (inert): https://www.amazon.com/synthetic-filter ... B00UA8H2TE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow.

2) another is sterile foam plugs (I believe, but do not know, that these are polyethelene) and are rated for alcohol laboratory use. https://www.ebay.com/itm/273162768772" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

3) last is Tyvek which allows for gas exchange, but I'm guessing falls into our no-no list.

[Single Malt Yinzer]

DUDE! This is exactly that I have been looking for. But I didn't have the background to know what material would work. The filter disks for the mason jars are perfect. I'm not joking when I say I've been looking for these for like two years. Seriously thanks! Now I can line up some new aging experiments.

It also would be good for open fermenting without risking contamination.

[acfixer69]

SMY unless I missed it I see nothing that says it's safe for our app. I too would like a solution to this for the mason/ball jars.

[Single Malt Yinzer]

With these lids: https://www.amazon.com/ProMaker-Stainle ... B07GPQFYVP" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Then you would just need something to limit how much air exchange there is. A round of SS or PTFE sheet would do. And there would be no synthetics at all in the system to worry about.

[Single Malt Yinzer]

SMY unless I missed it I see nothing that says it's safe for our app. I too would like a solution to this for the mason/ball jars.

The filter lids are glass fiber*. I emailed them to get the SDS (safety data sheet) for the material to see if there is anything mixed in with it.

* I said cellulose before, I was looking at the wrong item.

[Single Malt Yinzer]

PTFE paper: https://www.amazon.com/pur-sheet-Solven ... B0761251CY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[acfixer69]

PTFE paper: https://www.amazon.com/pur-sheet-Solven ... B0761251CY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Now that got my interest. Not the stuff mentioned in the op but I'm going to look at that for a though I just had.

[HDNB]

have you seen these at a LHB shop? i think you could get 3 mason jar lids out of the big round ones.

https://www.amazon.ca/Vinbrite-Crystalb ... ilter+pads" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[JSparrow]

Or https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item. ... emid=23488 (virgin PTFE disks, or cap liners)

Use a hole punch for notebook paper to put how ever many small holes in the disk you want to use to control airflow

Put that on your jar first then a layer of coffe filter over it for dust, etc. on goes the ring and viola !

The PTFE cap liners work great for 38mm gallon jug lids too if your concerned about the seal that is in your lids

[Single Malt Yinzer]

Or:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FXLNLES/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow <- I bought this
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00O3H5RDG/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow <- thinking about this, will decide after I get ^

I don't know if a punch would make good holes in it. PTFE is tough and flexible. It might deform like a plastic bag and not make a hole. I'll give it a go and reply.

[JSparrow]

Single Malt,

The leather punches might note cut clean holes in the PTFE liners because they are designed to cut much thicker material. With punches/dies the thicker the material the more clearance between the punch and die, which then doesn't work so well on thin material.

I've used the paper punch to punch holes in Mason jar lids for this same purpose (airing), it works great for that. Let us know how it works on the PTFE. I'm ordering some of the disks either way, I'll find a way to make a hole

[Single Malt Yinzer]

JSparrow - thanks, I'll see if it works out and report back.

https://www.amazon.com/Stainless-Storag ... B07F6C143W" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Instead of using the mesh lids and PTFE paper, maybe use the above and drill small holes in it. Probably would be cheaper and easier in the end. Just don't use the silicon seals that are included. Use the filter underneath so nothing bad can get in and you should be able to age things well.

What would the appropriate hole size be to mimic the air exchange as a 5/10/15/30/55 gallon barrel? Or more so: Without the worry of over oaking, what is an idea air exchange rate for aging? How much is too much? Actually I'll start a new thread just on that.

[JSparrow]

OOOHhh I like those, good find !

They could be combined with the hole concept and PTFE disks or the original post filter material.

As far as the size of hole to mimic the air exchange for the diff size barrels, I have no idea

I can say that I’ve got a quart of UJSSM in a 1/2 gallon Mason jar that has 1 6mm hole punched in the lid and a coffee filter, and after 60 days there is no noticeable amount of lose. Not very scientific I know, but I know it can breath with minimal evaporation, so I’m thinking it’s at least in the ballpark.

I WILL be ordering the SS lids you found. Those and the PTFE liners make perfect storage vessels I think due to eliminating any and all plastic concerns

I also plan on someday playing with the oak lids for mason jars the Correne came up with.

[JSparrow]

Also just noticed on that same link, they sell “sprouting” jar lids, which are all SS, but the top is SS mesh to allow airflow, those along with the PTFE disks Might make a neat trial too

[Benredbeard]

In mycology we also don't need that much exchange, so these are usually put above an upside-down lid that just has an appropriately-sized hole in it for gas exchange, injection ports or whatnot. Which would also work for our application I would think, since the metal side would be the one facing the ETOH.

[seamusm53]

On this site there is an almost pathologic aversion to plastic coming into contact with product. I get it. (especially since most plastics are either carcinogenic or estrogenic). But unless we turn the jars upside down or on its side is this really an issue?

[Benredbeard]

On this site there is an almost pathologic aversion to plastic coming into contact with product. I get it. (especially since most plastics are either carcinogenic or estrogenic). But unless we turn the jars upside down or on its side is this really an issue?

The consensus is yes. From an "abundance of caution" approach, which I think is defensible, the thought is that the vapor is definitely in contact with lid material. With ethanol being so volatile, there's a potential (if not definite) route for exposure to the dreaded plastic.

[JSparrow]

In mycology we also don't need that much exchange, so these are usually put above an upside-down lid that just has an appropriately-sized hole in it for gas exchange, injection ports or whatnot. Which would also work for our application I would think, since the metal side would be the one facing the ETOH.

That’s exactly what I was trying to convey. A PTFE disk with an appropriate sized hole for the air exchange you want, held in place with one of the SS sprouting lids. Sorry if I muddied that all up.

[Single Malt Yinzer]

By shear luck I figured out what the filters are made out of: Porous PTFE with a fiberglass structure.

https://www.sciencehistory.org/historic ... ert-w-gore" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
https://www.ipeweb.com/index.php/products/about-eptfe" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

If you have a rain jacket that is "breathable" you're wearing porous PTFE - aka GORE-TEX.

So this is food safe and ethanol safe.