Carboy Closure for Aging?

Any hardware used for mashing, fermenting or aging.

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fisics67
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Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by fisics67 »

So, if you were stuck aging/storing finished product (not proofed down) in carboys, what would be best to use as a closure? Do you want something semi breathable? Is the opening big enough to even allow decent breathing? Is there anything gained aging wise if the container is air tight?

At the moment I am asking this with white rum in mind, no wood. But also interested in thoughts pertaining to brown spirits.

I appreciate any thoughts that you might have.

P.S. Lets skip the warnings of glass breakage from bumping, earthquakes, dropping, etc. Unless braking due to pressure changes as temp changes with an air tight bung is likely.
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Expat
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by Expat »

I use regularly carboys (6 at current count) for post barrel storage, also aging. A properly fitted natural cork is all that's required.

Open them up every one and awhile and swish things around to get some extra air in there.
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by 8Ball »

I age in glass jugs & jars. The jugs have corks with a couple of grooves cut into the sides to allow for air/vapor exchange. The jars have ptfe discs under the lids and the lids are loose.
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zed255
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by zed255 »

I have had no issues with just some cloth over the mouth of my carboys, held in place with a rubber band or zip tie around the outside of the neck. No discernible loss in volume and the product gets to breathe, with product at or below the shoulder of the carboy. It also keeps things from getting into the product.
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fisics67
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by fisics67 »

Thanks guys!
tiramisu
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by tiramisu »

I understand storage in glass but I'm not clear on the idea of aging in glass.
Is there any claim that simple aging without wood/carbon improves anything and if so what changes?
fisics67
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by fisics67 »

tiramisu wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:35 am I understand storage in glass but I'm not clear on the idea of aging in glass.
Is there any claim that simple aging without wood/carbon improves anything and if so what changes?
I am new to all of this, but I think I understand some of this. Wood/Carbon has very little to do with "aging". The wood imparts wood flavors and the carbon absorbs some of the more volatile components. Aging though is more about chemical changes within the spirit over time, partly due to micro oxygenation through the barrel. The wood flavoring and the aging processes do not happen over the same timeline.

Feel free to correct me though.
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

tiramisu wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:35 am Is there any claim that simple aging without wood/carbon improves anything and if so what changes?
According to this bloke yes.
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by Rrmuf »

tiramisu wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:35 am I understand storage in glass but I'm not clear on the idea of aging in glass.
Is there any claim that simple aging without wood/carbon improves anything and if so what changes?
Not sure in general, but according to Odin, for gin, yes. He suggests a "marrying" period of 5 weeks after distillation. I have others suggest it doesn't make a difference but, personally I find that it does improve after that first month. ... nothing but glass.
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by tiramisu »

I have had 18 year old bottles of 3 year old scotch and it ain't no better.
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zed255
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by zed255 »

tiramisu wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 12:08 pm I have had 18 year old bottles of 3 year old scotch and it ain't no better.
Two differences between a bottle and aging in glass:

1) A bottle doesn't breathe, where we encourage some exchange when aging in glass

2) There isn't any wood (or otherwise) in the bottle, where there often is when aging in glass.

Bottling basically stops the maturation process. We should fealty be speaking of maturation rather than age.
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by jonnys_spirit »

New make, white-dog, heart-of-hearts, etc does seem to improve with some time in glass. I can understand this with the stresses the spirit has recently been subjected to benefiting from some meld-time.

I suspect that the improvements over the first months dwindle fairly rapidly as the product melds and is increasingly less-and-less as time moves forward as described with the 18yr bottle of 3yr.

With wines we observe a phenomenon described as "bottle shock" where it may be prescribed that you lay your wines down for a rest in the cellar for a month or 24+ before drinking after initial bottling and even after purchase or any shipping. That could perhaps be attributed to either ongoing bottle-aging or resting depending on the time frame?

OEG recommends a five week melding / resting period after cuts. I feel that it's generally recommended to rest your spirits for a similar period after proofing to allow for some time to get over the terrible shock of being mixed with water lol!

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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:59 pm I feel that it's generally recommended to rest your spirits for a similar period after proofing to allow for some time to get over the terrible shock of being mixed with water lol!
Ive read that many distilleries cut from barrel proof back to bottle proof with water over a period of weeks rather than in one big hit for that very reason. Less shock to the spirit in simple terms.....there is a lot more to it than that though.
From my own experience I'm convinced that any spirit that a take at barrel proof cut back and bottle always benefits being left for some time before being drunk. Its easy enough to do a side by side tasting for yourself to be sure.
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by Rrmuf »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue May 11, 2021 1:59 pm OEG recommends a five week melding / resting period after cuts. I feel that it's generally recommended to rest your spirits for a similar period after proofing to allow for some time to get over the terrible shock of being mixed with water lol!

Cheers!
-j
LOL. I *do* think there is some truth in the comment about the shock of being mixed with water. I've actually noticed that my gin warms up a bit when I dilute to drinking strength. I don't think I imagine that since I never drink my distillate when making my distillate. :thumbup:
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Rrmuf , its called an exothermic reaction.......the higher the abv of the alcohol the more noticeable it becomes.
Cutting anything above about 90% back to 40 or so it becomes very noticeable.
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Re: Carboy Closure for Aging?

Post by Rrmuf »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:50 am Rrmuf , its called an exothermic reaction.......the higher the abv of the alcohol the more noticeable it becomes.
Cutting anything above about 90% back to 40 or so it becomes very noticeable.
Thanks, I knew it was something; just not WHAT it was! I found it noticeable cutting back from as low as 80%.
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