Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Any hardware used in the mashing /fermenting or aging of product

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Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby Single Malt Yinzer » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:20 pm

So part of aging is slowly oxidizing the distillate. With small barrels the distillate can get over oaked faster than the oxidation process can adequately enhance the product. The oaking process can be done other ways with oak fingers/cubes/chips. With that part of the barrel equation removed it allows for isolation of oxidation process. In pursuit of that I've been looking for an ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane. But I can't figure out which one is best for this. I've searched for it but haven't found anything that would be easy to get to test.

Here's a good beer thread with some charts: https://www.beeradvocate.com/community/ ... on.248425/

Goals:
- Oxygen permeability similar to wood (we can test later higher or lower)
- Resistance to high ethanol content (60+%)
- Lowish cost
- Reuseablity (especially if it's costly)

I would ultimately like something I could use to cover a larger jar (a gallon or more) so that I could oak at the same time. I would like it to be a film or thin paper like substance so that it is easy to work with. (Hey if you're going to ask for something might as well ask for all the bells and whistles).

So who can find this magic thing I'm looking for??? Any suggestions for something else? Any ideas for other goals?
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby cob » Wed Aug 16, 2017 4:58 pm

Gore-Tex is claimed to be eptfe, but I have never seen it as a stand alone fabric,

always bonded to another fabric for strength.

I would like to see hard proof that Gore-Tex is actually a pure form of

ptfe in an expanded form before I could recommend it for your purposes.
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby HDNB » Wed Aug 16, 2017 5:01 pm

i don't want to sound sarcastic (ok, maybe a little) but after reading your goals...wood came to mind. :roll:
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby Single Malt Yinzer » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:25 pm

HDNB - ha, yeah I know. But I want to separate the two processes out as the do different thing for creating a flavor profile. I want to be able to choose how much oak flavor I want then remove the oaking sticks. But I still want to let the product oxidize slowly to smooth it out.

Something like this but the lids would let in just the right amount of oxygen:
1451252763489.jpg
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby NZChris » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:05 pm

Don't put so much oak in that you have to remove it.

Leave enough head space in the jar for the O2.
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby cranky » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:00 pm

Get a well used barrel. I want the same thing with my brandy and that's what I I did, found a twice used 5 gallon Balcones barrel and over oaking isn't a problem.
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby heartcut » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:27 am

Onlinemetals.com sells thin sheet teflon. The 0.031" should do what you want and last a long time if treated gently
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby ShineonCrazyDiamond » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:57 am

Start looking at wood lids for jars like Corene makes. Benefit of the breath ability of the wood, but not in contact with the spirit.

I use those ptfe disk with the band of the mason jar (no jar lid, just disk and band). I leave it half way screwed on, and put it in the attic. In the summer I press down on the disk and it gives me an indication of the pressure release it has, and I can make an adjustment if I want. Expand happens, and it expels. Vacuum happens and it pulls air in. When I proof it down after aging, a good week or so in a decanter really drives the last nail, and I get a great whiskey.

Nothing replaces a well timed barrel, though. Nothing.
Last edited by ShineonCrazyDiamond on Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby chickenfeed » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:06 am

Ihave done well with 1/8 white oak it seems to let it breathe well enough and since it's the lid direct contact with your liquor is not necessary
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby Single Malt Yinzer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:10 am

I want to use a barrel but I only make a .5 to 1 gallon a month or so. It would take way too long to fill and age a 5 gallon barrel. I know I don't need to fill it completely.

Chickenfeed- 1/8" oak sound like a good simple solution. I'll have to try it out.

Heartcut - If so that would be a good solution too. I'll get some and experiment.

Thanks everyone!
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby cranky » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:02 am

Single Malt Yinzer wrote:I want to use a barrel but I only make a .5 to 1 gallon a month or so. It would take way too long to fill and age a 5 gallon barrel. I know I don't need to fill it completely.

.5 gallons a month is 6 gallons a year, just saying :problem: 2 years of apples and my barrel still isn't full. If you want to age it, make enough to age and be patient. Alternatively my old way of doing it was to put it in a 1/2 gallon jar with a used stick, probably smaller than most use, leave the lid loose and put it on top of a heater vent in a seldom used room (spare bathroom) over the winter or until I thought it was done. There are lots of ways to make sure the alcohol can breath and ways to oak without over oaking.
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby Single Malt Yinzer » Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:49 am

cranky wrote: and be patient.

images.jpg
images.jpg (10.08 KiB) Viewed 705 times

Actually it's not patients, it's curiosity. I can't stop taking "samples". Stuff doesn't last long that way. If I scaled up it would work better but that's not going to happen anytime soon.
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Re: Looking for: ethanol resistant oxygen permeable membrane

Postby cranky » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:35 am

So turn a little barrel into a well used barrel :ewink: Fill it with a sacrificial product and let that get over oaked, then another until it works like you want.
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