Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

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freebase
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Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by freebase » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:36 pm

The 'usual' colour of distillate intended for barrel aging is the query.

Q1) Does the barrel quickly mask any colour in the distillate?
If you pot still you will see straw coloured distillate regularly.
(even on a non-puke slow run)
Sometimes with the best (IMO) flavour profile.

Q2) Is it customary to barrel age straw coloured distillate?
(And is the colour of the distillate masked by any subsequent barrel aging?)

Or is it preferred to strip, or re-strip any colour, before adding to the barrel.

Is this cut and dried, or open to debate...?
Any input appreciated (as it will save (re)-testing in wood, if someone knows this already...)

Rgds.

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jonnys_spirit
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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by jonnys_spirit » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:40 pm

It’s pretty typical to do a double distillation or strip/spirit runs. Low wines are typically dirty maybe even straw colored. Fractions cut and blended from a spirit run are typically clear.

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stillanoob
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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by stillanoob » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:51 pm

freebase wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:36 pm
Q1) Does the barrel quickly mask any colour in the distillate?
If you pot still you will see straw coloured distillate regularly.
(even on a non-puke slow run)
Sometimes with the best (IMO) flavour profile.

Q2) Is it customary to barrel age straw coloured distillate?
(And is the colour of the distillate masked by any subsequent barrel aging?)

Or is it preferred to strip, or re-strip any colour, before adding to the barrel.
Pretty new at this but my pot still has never put out any straw colored product. A little cloudy if I run deep on a stripping run but no color at all. If it is straw colored it must have puked or there has to be a problem with the still.

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Deplorable
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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by Deplorable » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:57 pm

I've yet to have any cloudy product come out of my still aside from tails, and never has anything been straw colored. I've not yet experienced a puke.
Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.

freebase
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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by freebase » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:06 pm

Not talking about cloudy, which as you suggest, almost always happens around and below 40% ABV.

The straw colour i mention is at 65% ABV, and above, and is transparent.
It is not an artefact, or a fault, but is part of the 'method'.

Fermenting on grain, straining prior to still run.
(No mash clarification prior, good head space)

Havn't checked yet whether it (the straw colour) filters out (probably)
But i don't like filtering...

Rgds.

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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by SaltyStaves » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:25 pm

You can get yellow distillate without puking. Foam ups will leave deposits on the side walls of the boiler/riser after the foam settles down. Then vapour will contact those deposits and carry over.
Double distillation sorts it out.

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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by NineInchNails » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:10 pm

Generally speaking, your stripping run comes out clear aside from tails which is cloudy.

Your spirit run should always come out crystal clear aside from tails.

You make your cuts, air it out 1-2 days and barrel it. The barrel is what imparts color and additional flavor.

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Chauncey
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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by Chauncey » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:22 pm

I have never heard of this outside of what saltystaves and others said.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by Saltbush Bill » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:39 pm

If its straw colored , something weird is going on .....all distillate that leaves the still will be clear .....unless its puked or some how else become contaminated.

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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by seabass » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:43 pm

My strips are always straw colored. Even darker if it's got dark specialty malts in it. I atribute it to entrainment. I also get debris and foam up the riser. Spirit runs are always clear until tails. I also only do all grain, so there will be more foam than a sugar based wash.

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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by zed255 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:04 pm

All my AG strips have had a straw color. Interestingly, after a day sitting the color went away. I also get dark oily flecks as well that a paper towel will filter out. AG really smuts up the inside of the still with an oily residue that looks dark metallic in sheen.
Last edited by zed255 on Wed Sep 23, 2020 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by seabass » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:16 pm

zed255 wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:04 pm
All my AG straps have had a straw color. Interestingly, after a day sitting the color went away. I also get dark oily flecks as well that a paper towel will filter out. AG really smuts up the inside of the still with an oily residue that looks dark metallic in sheen.
It gets nasty. Even my hydrometer gets covered in brown silvery crud.

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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by MartinCash » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:09 pm

I always get yellowish fores when distilling rum. I've always blamed it on small droplets of molasses that get produced during the stripping runs, re-dissolving on the first stream of product. Obvoiusly I only clean the still every so often.

Usually by the time I'm into the late heads the distillate is colourless.

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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by Demy » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:58 am

With an alembic it could happen even if it will usually be clear. It could be due to too much filling of the boiler, too much heat. If you don't have strange smells and the taste (diluted) is good I think there is no problem.

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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by freebase » Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:48 pm

The reason for asking...
was that on a batch a while ago (an intended 'stripping' run) one of the jars (Jar#2 @ 1L) was just too good to mix in.

Purely for sport, I had already decided to run the stripping run very slow...
This was useful and brings into play the question of whether 1 run or 2...

Jar 2 was a definite straw colour, and was a knockout.
55% ABV straight off the still on a strip, and noticeable.
The smell and taste was immediately out of the ordinary.

This could easily have gone straight into a barrel.
Just need another 30 stripping runs...of exactly the same mash bill & conditions...doh!

Incidentally, out of 60L mash, and 2 separate (25L) strip runs, 2 very specific (1L) jars were almost identical.
The 2nd 1L jar (on both runs); overtly straw coloured and aromatic.

The Mash Bill :
No cook method.
Container required, 60L plastic tub.

In a 25L boiler, bring to the boil 15L backset (from the previous (within 24hrs) all grain/on grain fermented stripping run) + 10L water

In the 60L tub, add 6Kg Flaked Corn.
Add the boiled backset.

In the boiler, bring to the boil another 25L water.
When boiled, add to the tub.

Leave to steep for 1 1/2hrs.

Test temp.
Add cold water to bring the temp down to 68ºC (and bring the level to allow headspace for yeast krausen in tub)

Add 3.6Kg Crisp Rye Malt
...stir in and dissolve solids.

Add 1.6Kg Maris Otter Malted 2-row Barley.
...stir in and dissolve solids.

Note : Mash Bill is : 54% Corn /Maize / 32% Rye (Malted) / 14% Barley: 2-row (Malted)

Stir with sterilised paddle.

Cover and leave (overnight, outside (if cold) if possible)

Measure O.G.
The original was around 17% Brix (+/- 1.068)

Using a sterilised container, remove 1L mash.

For the yeast starter :
In a (sterilised) 5L jug, add the 1L mash.
Add 2tsp sugar (Cane, dextrose, etc)

Add 35g Yeast (Dried Baking Yeast)
Mix well and leave for 10 mins.
Monitor closely; If activity evident, stir and leave another 10 mins.

Add yeast starter to tub.
Agitate well.
Seal tub, and roll tub around for as long as you can.

Then add airlock and leave for at least a week...

Fermented on grain.

(Using several smaller tubs)...
Decant the contents of the tub into a bag strainer, 10L at a time.
Squeeze out all the liquid.
Add 25L to the still and proceed.
50% power (approx 1KW input power)
Staged hold (for 15 mins) at <78ºC to drive off the unwanted.
Then half power run...
1st 100-150ml discarded as foreshots.

Then 1L jars used for collection.
2nd jar was the best...

0.5L jars would have been better on reflection, but you can't unboil an egg.

Excellent.

The rest went on to a spirit run...

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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by Clamsmasha » Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:12 pm

I get it on occasion if I spirit run rum too fast with dunder. I take it as evidence of a puke, but luckily it usually happens in the heads portion....then I turn down the power a bit.

It’s very black and skanky so a tiny bit turns the spirit yellow.

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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by Chucker » Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:26 am

My strip runs this year have all been straw colored. The wash has been very dark, though, from using some roasted barley in the mash. I have a sight glass mounted low so apart from some foaming on the first run of the season have not had issues since. For a strip run I really don’t care and take it all the way down to cloudy.
The 2nd run of the batch (low wines, feints, residual wash) are always colorless, clear, white spirit.

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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by bluefish_dist » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:34 am

Running my plated column, almost all spirits are clear after the still. The ones that have not been clear were porter beers that I distilled. Some color came across. I assume that is because they are such a dark fermentation that the distillation process can’t remove all the impurities. Btw the chocolate porter made a great whiskey.
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RC Al
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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by RC Al » Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:44 am

On a side note an Aussie got a nobel prize in 2015 for unboiling an egg :D
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The Baker
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Re: Is White Dog always 'white' or straw...?

Post by The Baker » Sat Oct 17, 2020 9:06 pm

RC Al wrote:
Sat Oct 17, 2020 7:44 am
On a side note an Aussie got a nobel prize in 2015 for unboiling an egg :D
I exploded some eggs once; let the water boil away...

Geoff
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