Element and controller questions

[Wburns]

Hi everyone! Long time lurker and fairly experienced distilled here. Finally decided to take the plunge and get away from heating my 15.5 gallon keg pot still with a turkey fryer propane burner and convert to an immersion heating element. I understand how to install the element but I have one problem: I'm a complete novice when it comes to wiring and such.

So I have two questions: what kind of difference in heat up times is there between 120v controller systems and 240v systems? ( I'm in the US). For my 15.5 gallon boiler running 10 or so gallon charges would Mr. P's harbor freight setup work? Do I even need to go 220v or use two elements like the Mr. P setup for a keg pot still?

The second question is which design of controller should I go with as a first timer with limited electrical knowledge. I've been browsing these forums for days now and the variety of designs and wealth of information is making my head hurt lol. Basically what I'm seeking is a "here dummy, buy these parts and assemble them as shown" kind of how to guide. I found several controller set up how to's on here but as a novice to electric heating I have no idea which one I should go with. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[acfixer69]

Well to the first question 110v elements are limited to 15 to 20 amp standard house circuits. The 220v circuits are typically 30 and 50 amp electric dryers and electric stoves. So 110v is limited to a roughly 1500watt element and 220v on 30 amp will easily handle a 5500watt element. Almost 4 times as fast for heat up.
Second if going 220v the easiest and good value is the still dragon kit. For 110v I guess a router speed controller would work. I would go the 220v route and never look back.

[Wburns]

First off thanks so much for replying! The reason I was interested in using regular house circuits was so I didnt have to unplug my dryer to use the outlet lol. So my only question about the still dragon kit is whether that's enough heat sink for the job or should I plan on upgrading that to a pc processor cooler?

[sambedded]

So my only question about the still dragon kit is whether that's enough heat sink for the job or should I plan on upgrading that to a pc processor cooler?

It depends. For 240V 5500Watt heater you need to provide an unrestricted air flow for passive cooling - place a heatsink outside of box, or make a lots of holes underneath and on top of your box. Or you can have a smaller vents and a fan inside a box.
For 3000-4000 Watt 240v heating element medium sized vents are enough. You can just do some temperature measurement during a run. Don't let heatsink be hotter than 70-80C (160-175F)

[acfixer69]

First off thanks so much for replying! The reason I was interested in using regular house circuits was so I didn't have to unplug my dryer to use the outlet lol. So my only question about the still dragon kit is whether that's enough heat sink for the job or should I plan on upgrading that to a pc processor cooler?

The reason I spoke in general household circuits is to alert you whats available if you have space in the breaker box you can run a new wire to what ever you want at any amp that's available. If that is the case I guess I don't have a clue what you are asking.

[greggn]

For my 15.5 gallon boiler running 10 or so gallon charges would Mr. P's harbor freight setup work?

I strongly suggest you avoid using a router speed controller (RSC). They are simply not designed for the long duration runs that we experience and many (myself included) have had them literally melt while in use.

... and yes, mine melted *after* having made the heat sink modification.

Since that disaster I have built two controllers using the Auber SSVR. Very easy to assemble, very reliable, very durable.

http://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_ ... cts_id=332" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I used Auber, many use the SD kit ... same technology only using SSVRs from different manufacturers. Be sure to use the appropriately rated device (25A or 40A) for the heating element you choose.

[StillerBoy]

what kind of difference in heat up times is there between 120v controller systems and 240v systems? ( I'm in the US). For my 15.5 gallon boiler running 10 or so gallon charges

The answer to your question will be found on this thread..

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=74053

Mars

[Expat]

For 3000-4000 Watt 240v heating element medium sized vents are enough. You can just do some temperature measurement during a run. Don't let heatsink be hotter than 70-80C (160-175F)

Wow, that's definitely the far upper limit for temp, shockingly hot I would say. The MTTF for parts running near that is going to be very short.

For interest, I checked the temp on my heatsink during my stripping run last night, pretty steady at 31C/88F. Disclosure, I'm using the heat sink on the outside approach.

[Pesty]

The difference is hours of your life.

220 is two 110 lines with a neutral return.

240 is two 110 lines with no neutral return and is specificly designed for resistance type appliances. Water heters and clothes dryers.

You want to unplug your dryer and use that 240 outlet with a basic SCR or SSR controller. Both are readily available in the electric section complete with links to parts and how to builds.

[Oldvine Zin]

The difference is hours of your life.

220 is two 110 lines with a neutral return.

240 is two 110 lines with no neutral return and is specificly designed for resistance type appliances. Water heters and clothes dryers.

You want to unplug your dryer and use that 240 outlet with a basic SCR or SSR controller. Both are readily available in the electric section complete with links to parts and how to builds.

???
220/240 whatever it takes, it's all 240 here in the US, the Euro's have 220, ONE hot and a neutral

OVZ

[Pesty]

Whoops my bad.. yes 220 is a single hot with a neutral

[NineInchNails]

I would go 240V if you can.

As recommended previously, check your breaker box and see if you have an opening for a 240V breaker. If you do then it's really really easy to add another circuit. I would then focus on how you run the wires from the breaker box in a safe manor to be of use to you. For instance a 240V outlet in the wall, a dangling cord with a plug to plug into, etc...

Depending on your home and where your breaker box is ... you could run wire down into your crawlspace, over to a wall you want a 240V outlet and up the wall to the new outlet. You have lots of options.

For a very first controller ... I'd just go with a basic Still Dragon controller. You will learn a lot and get a lot of experience setting up this system from scratch. Later you might want to upgrade to one of those Auber Instruments controllers. Auber controllers are a bit more expensive, a bit more complicated and a few more things to know before you build.

There are limits to the length of wire you can run vs Amps & gauge of wire. Just Google it and you'll find wire gauge charts.

[amdamgraham]

Can someone who has built the Auber controller with exterior heat sink post a picture of your completed unit? I am looking to build one (240v for 30AMP) but I'd like it to be safely mounted or contained.

[greggn]

Can someone who has built the Auber controller with exterior heat sink post a picture of your completed unit? I am looking to build one (240v for 30AMP) but I'd like it to be safely mounted or contained.

Below are Gen1 and Gen2 controllers built with the Auber 25A SSRV. I did not use a fan in either build so I mounted the heatsink external to the box. Stable as a rock.

[MtRainier]

FYI, if you do go with a still dragon controller (The cheapest option, I think), and you're running it at 120V, you should plan to switch out the 500k pot with a 250k pot so you have control over the entire range.

I put a still dragon controller kit in line with an extension cord so I could regulate temperature on a 120V hotplate. It doesn't even come on until you get halfway up the dial with the potentiometer. They said that's because I'm running 120V and advised switching out the pot for that case.

At 120V you're going to wait a while to get a boil in your keg boiler. Once you're running, it will be fine, though. You'll be fine running with just the 2000W of power you can generate with the 120V heater in 15g. No speed runs, but you're not paying a salary or anything, so you got the time.

[sambedded]

For 3000-4000 Watt 240v heating element medium sized vents are enough. You can just do some temperature measurement during a run. Don't let heatsink be hotter than 70-80C (160-175F)

Wow, that's definitely the far upper limit for temp, shockingly hot I would say. The MTTF for parts running near that is going to be very short.

From a BTA41 triac datasheet - Operating junction temperature range -40C to + 125C. (That triacs are often used at SSVR-40).

[Hoosier Shine9]

I have the StillDragon controller. I have fat hands (size 14.5 ring) so I got the large box.
it has easy to follow instructions it took me about an hour to put together. & I do not have "lots" of electrical experience.

We have a gas dryer so the 240 outlet is unused.
I have my Table saw on that circuit but a different outlet.
Would NEVER be running & using the saw at the same. Therefore not concerned about overloading the circuit.

I drilled a bunch of holes on the sides (2 or 3 on each side) and have a small "personal" fan that blows across/through the controller.
Running 240v using a single 4500w(the store was out of 5500w) on a 15.5g keg with a 12.5 to 13g charge at 8-10% abv.
From about 65f to 180f in the keg takes about 30 minutes. it takes another 15-20 minutes to get the top plate of 6 to be flooded and in full reflux.
45 to 50 minutes from room temp to full reflux.
then I drop power & hold reflux for 30-45 minutes.
decrease my water flow to pre-condenser & start taking product.
about 2.5 to 3 hours later I am done.

If I were doing it again right now. I would do it the SAME way except I would have gone to the other store & gotten the 5500w.

good luck
added a 0 to the 550....oops

[Oldvine Zin]

I have the StillDragon controller. I have fat hands (size 14.5 ring) so I got the large box.
it has easy to follow instructions it took me about an hour to put together. & I do not have "lots" of electrical experience.

except I would go with the 5500 W element

OVZ

[NineInchNails]

Can someone who has built the Auber controller with exterior heat sink post a picture of your completed unit? I am looking to build one (240v for 30AMP) but I'd like it to be safely mounted or contained.

This is an Auber PID Unit 120V with the Heat Sink on the exterior. A PID Unit is nearly identical to build as a 240V Auber Power Regulator.





Since these pics were taken, I've installed an RTD Sensor connector. If you plan it out right, you could make a very compact controller.