best electric heating for still?

[SpiffyStump]

Going to be upgrading to a bigger still in the next month or so, I currently use a 8gl still and use a hot plate to heat up the still, it takes about 2 and a half hours to heat up and start running. The still originial came with a straight prong heating prob, I do not remember how long it took to heat up but that it didnt give off as high of a proof as the hot plate did, I also feel that the inner heating elements scortch the mash and if there is any solids in the mash they would burn and stick to the heating element and could be a pain in the but to clean off, but thats why I am here I want your opinion. Do you prefer gas over electric? Do you prefer inner heating elements over outer such as a hot plate? Do you notice a difference in flavore compared to iner or outer heating?

[Jstroke]

For me, there is no difference in taste unless I scorch it. Much easier to scorch electric internal. However it comes down to location, and cost per BTU. Electric for me is much cheaper. For others gas makes more sense.

[SpiffyStump]

For me, there is no difference in taste unless I scorch it. Much easier to scorch electric internal. However it comes down to location, and cost per BTU. Electric for me is much cheaper. For others gas makes more sense.

I would assume the best way to not scorth the mash is to not go over 220 degrees no? what scortches a mash it getting to hot? or getting hot to fast?

[still_stirrin]

For me, there is no difference in taste unless I scorch it. Much easier to scorch electric internal. However it comes down to location, and cost per BTU. Electric for me is much cheaper. For others gas makes more sense.

I would assume the best way to not scorth the mash is to not go over 220 degrees no? what scortches a mash it getting to hot? or getting hot to fast?

Most often a scorch (note how it’s spelled so you can use the search tool for more feedback) is the result of solids in the boiler. And a gas fired (propane or wood as well) can scorch just as easy as an electric internal element. But obviously, since an internal element will be IN the wash/mash, it could scorch quicker.

Unfermented sugars can also scorch in a wash, so ensuring your sugar washes are fully terminal will help minimize this possibility.

Now, does the speed at which you get to the boil affect a scorch? It can. As a wash nears its boiling point, if excessive heat is applied, you can get some burning of the solids or sugars that contact the heat element or the boiler bottom in the case of external heated boilers. Once the boil has initiated, the convection caused by the rising bubbles will stir the mash/wash to keep from concentrating the heat locally.

So, heating to boiling somewhat more gradually can help reduce the likelihood of a scorch even in a mash that isn’t fully cleared before running.

I would think that using an internal element is the best option. But if your mashes aren’t cleared, then with more surface area per watt of power (ULWD) elements are a better option. The energy is transferred over a larger surface, hence the watt density of the element is less.

If using a camp stove or a fish fryer burner, the heat is focused on the external surface of the boiler in a somewhat concentrated area and this can cause local scorching inside the boiler where the surface temperature is hottest.

In conclusion, the proper solution depends on what your input requirements are, ie - type of wash/mash, how clear it is, the boiler design and construction, etc.
ss

[Tummydoc]

I have a 15.5 gallon keg boiler with a 5500 watt ultra low density element run on 240V. I'm not compulsive about clearing a ferment, and ferment in 32 gallon Brute cans. I grind grains to flour. When fermented, the liquid goes in the boiler and the settled grains in a thumper. I start the boiler at 5 amps for 10 min to establish a convection current and then increase power to 15-24 amps. Takes 45 minutes for the boiler to start producing vapor. A little particulate isnt a problem, but a murky liquid from suspended grain will scorch. For spirit runs or reflux the electric is awesome and allows much finer power control than i ever achieved with a cheap turkey frier burner and propane.

[NZChris]

I've burned mash onto an internal element when doing something I knew I shouldn't do, (had starch in the charge).

I've seen fruit burned onto a still heated with gas when the stiller did something I had told him not to do, (let it cool and try to restart without agitating).

The only scorch I've had on a hot plate, (or was it a gas burner?), was when I miscalculated the boiler charge and ran it dry.

To scorch using any type of heating, you have to make a mistake that has been warned about by somebody, somewhere.

[Demy]

I have only experienced with electric, use hot plates, interior elements and steam jacket. The plates are excellent but for limited quantities because they have limited power, the elements are faster and work well if your washing is quite liquid even if turbid, the steam jacket is the best (I have distilled fruit with its pulp) , keep in mind these limits and act accordingly, for example if you make a mash of cereals and you want to use internal elements you have to filter the solid part (even coarsely) to avoid burns, I had some burns in the past and it's a horrendous thing.

[Ben]

I like internal elements, you maximize heat transfer and they are essentially zero maintenance. I run 5500w elements in the 5 gallon brewery, and run them at full tilt until I hit the boil and never scorch anything, just keep all the solids out and you will be fine. You can pick up a brew bag and use it as a filter for your wash, it should filter out just about everything that could cause a scorch. Cheese cloth would probably work too and its available at most hardware stores.

[Deplorable]

I've run both, and only ever had any starches stick to the bottom of the boiler with a turkey fryer, but it didn't burn.
I have a 50L milk can boiler and a 5500W/240V ULWD internal element. Like Tummydoc, I start the boiler on low, about 8A, and after about 10 minutes or so I turn up the power, and it boils just fine with no scorching.
I just stripped 21 gallons of some pretty murky corn mash in two charges, and nothing stuck to the burner. Even running at 5400W, after slowly bringing up the heat, I drained the boiler and the element was as clean as it was before the first charge.

[The Baker]

How murky is okay for corn wash?

I am making a UJSSM with wheat (because I had some, also I can get free wheat but have to work out grinding it);
barley (because they had no corn);
and maize (Corn) because I got a bag later.

It is milky so I poured it into clear plastic 'jugs' (15 litre water containers)
and let it settle for at least a day.
Cleared off a lot of thickish white goop
(a litre or so per) (which I will also let stand...)
but it is a lot of effort.
Is it okay milky, off the fermenter??
It would save a lot of work.

Geoff

[Deplorable]

Geoff
I guess the answer is "it depends".
Honestly, on this last batch of corn I stripped last night, everything that made it through the paint strainer bag when I squeezed it the day before went into the boiler. Normally, I rack off the sediment and leave most of the custard behind. I decided with this run, I'd see what I could get away with without anything sticking to my Dernord 5500W ULWD element. Nothing stuck to the element.
Some say that it's best to clear the beer, to improve taste, others run it all, so I set back a half pint jar of the hearts from the first run that I cleared like I usually do. When I spirit run these low wines I'll set aside a half pint of the hearts for a side by side comparison before blending both runs together to add to the keg that will fill a 5 gallon barrel.

I don't have the most discerning taste buds, so it'll be interesting to see if I can detect a difference in flavor from one process to the next, with the only other difference being one mash got lacto, and the other did not.

My backset that I set aside for the 3rd mash will need to settle out, so I collected an additional half gallon figuring on losing a good portion to sediment.

So I guess "it depends" on how much time you want to spend to clear your beer, how finicky your taste buds are, and how slick your element is.
I reckon as long as you don't leave it sit in the boiler so long that everything settles on the element, you'll be fine.
Only you can deice if you can taste a difference.

[The Baker]

Thanks, deplorable.

Good to get some other thoughts.

Geoff

[Saltbush Bill]

My short answer Geoff,
Let it sit a week or two after ferment finishes, siphon off everything down to the grain bed.....the little bit of yeast you get will not matter.....99% of what you siphon will be a clean yellowish wash....not cloudy.
If it still looks milky its either not finished yet or its not been left sit long enough.

[Deplorable]

My short answer Geoff,
Let it sit a week or two after ferment finishes, siphon off everything down to the grain bed.....the little bit of yeast you get will not matter.....99% of what you siphon will be a clean yellowish wash....not cloudy.
If it still looks milky its either not finished yet or its not been left sit long enough.

SBB, Are you talking strictly sugarheads like UJSSM here? Or do you not take what's in the grains on an AG mash?

[Saltbush Bill]

Talking UJSSM.

[The Baker]

My short answer Geoff,
Let it sit a week or two after ferment finishes, siphon off everything down to the grain bed.....the little bit of yeast you get will not matter.....99% of what you siphon will be a clean yellowish wash....not cloudy.
If it still looks milky its either not finished yet or its not been left sit long enough.

Thanks,

I have read the complete UJSSM thread (around 250 posts...) and spent a lot of thought
trying to understand and simplify the process. Not in fact easy.
(Not to make the process simpler but to set it out more simply.)

I have been trying to follow the given method; this is my first try at a 'sort of' whiskey
and a lot of my rellies like bourbon and stuff...

The somewhat cloudy liquid seems to distil without trouble and does not appear
to cause a problem in the (electrically heated) 3,000 watt still.
But when I see the amount of powdery residue that falls out of the liquid
when it is left stand a few days I am not happy.

The suggestion is made to get the new ferment (including backset) going without delay
so the yeast from the old ferment can activate the new one.

But I think you have the answer.
When I am happy that the ferment is complete I will let it go cold and let it sit for maybe a week,
then siphon off the liquid.

And I will be very surprised if the yeast, having not died but become dormant, does not happily, even eagerly
get to work again on the new ferment in a warm and sugary liquid environment.

Even though the original method suggests otherwise!

Simple is good.

Geoff

[subbrew]

And I will be very surprised if the yeast, having not died but become dormant, does not happily, even eagerly
get to work again on the new ferment in a warm and sugary liquid environment.

Even though the original method suggests otherwise!

Simple is good.

Geoff

I have pitched a lot of yeast slurry from previous beer batches which sat for at least a week after fermentation finished, then spent 3 or 4 day in the fridge cold crashing. I have never had a problem with the yeast starting right back up. Yeast a hardy, as long as kept damp. I have even had a slurry sit in the bottom a mostly empty carboy for a few days and it still starts right back up.

[The Baker]

Thanks, sub.

A while back I got my brother-in-law to save a tiny bucket of the slurry from his home brew beer.
Kept it in the refrigerator a fair while.
Used it to start a sugar ferment and it worked fine, started immediately.

Geoff

[NZChris]

But I think you have the answer.
When I am happy that the ferment is complete I will let it go cold and let it sit for maybe a week,
then siphon off the liquid.

You're not making neutral, you're making a flavorsome corn likker.

I open the spigot and let it filter itself through it's grain bed, returning the first couple of very cloudy pints back into the top of the fermenter, then distilling as soon as I've collected it and getting the next generation going within hours. I've never had it burn onto my elements.

[The Baker]

But I think you have the answer.
When I am happy that the ferment is complete I will let it go cold and let it sit for maybe a week,
then siphon off the liquid.

You're not making neutral, you're making a flavorsome corn likker.

I open the spigot and let it filter itself through it's grain bed, returning the first couple of very cloudy pints back into the top of the fermenter, then distilling as soon as I've collected it and getting the next generation going within hours. I've never had it burn onto my elements.

Okay, Chris.
I have highlighted your special points.
I will try it that way.
Especially since I have already installed the spigot!

Geoff

[Bearddrunk]

I have a 15.5 gallon keg boiler with a 5500 watt ultra low density element run on 240V.

I'm thinking of converting my 15 gallon keg to electric and I was wondering if your element is enough, even for stripping run? Also, what type of power management are you using and why?

Thanks!

[The Baker]

NZChris said (about UJSSM)

I open the spigot and let it filter itself through its grain bed, returning the first couple of very cloudy pints back into the top of the fermenter, then distilling as soon as I've collected it and getting the next generation going within hours. I've never had it burn onto my elements.

Chris, do you let the ferment stand (for say a few days or a week) after the fermentation seems to have about stopped,
or distil it fairly soon??
And do you find it works better if you don't turn the tap on too fast?
My tap is three quarter inch, with a home-made internal filter tube with 70 - 100 x 4mm holes...

Geoff

[NZChris]

Chris, do you let the ferment stand (for say a few days or a week) after the fermentation seems to have about stopped,
or distil it fairly soon??

Not for UJSSM. I distill it at the first opportunity after it goes dead.

And do you find it works better if you don't turn the tap on too fast?
My tap is three quarter inch.

Geoff

No. It soon slows down quite a bit, but I've never had it stop. I often have more than one charge worth in the fermenter and siphon a still charge off the top to get me started while I wait for the rest to drain.