Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

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Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:42 pm

There has been alot of talk about 220V high amp contollers, and I have been talking about building this PWM 220V High amperage controller for some time. So I have it finished, I have done testing with water, while monitoring current flow with an amp probe. Its too cold here to run a mash, and the old lady wont let me do it in the house, so its gonna be a couple months before I can still with it. But I am confident that it works. I have 5 settings in 20% intervals. I have in this one a 25A solid state relay, so it will handle the current most hobby stillers will throw at it. Running wide open my element pulls right around 13A, and my 20% setting pulls 2.5A, 40%-5.1A, 60%-8A, 80%-10.5. I am including pictures of the build and I will post the program I made for the microcontroller. I dont have alot invested considering, and I got most of my stuff from ebay. here is the breakdown:
micro controller: $23
Controller breadboard for circuitry: $8
25A SSR, $20
rotary switch: $4
Box: $4
Heat sink: FREEBIE! (Im sure you can get them cheap, or scavenge from something)
EDIT: Making your own likker.......$PRICELESS! :lol:
Some misc. wire, and electrical supplies
Power supply for the micro controller, I hacked an old cellphone charger. The micro controller runs on 6-14Vdc
I installed a 25A relay, but you can put any SSR in its place for lower amperage, if you like. It just needs to be able to trigger with a 5Vdc 20ma signal. The breadboard is the same size board as the controller and piggybacks right to the top of the microcontroller.
Attachments
cont.4.JPG
Here's the finished product.
cont.3.JPG
Heres the guts all packed in the box
cont.2.JPG
Cover/switch/breadboard, ready to install
cont.1.JPG
Power supply/controller installation
Last edited by MuleKicker on Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby LWTCS » Wed Feb 17, 2010 4:50 pm

I need the meat and potatoes Bri.

Tell us about the payment/layaway plan. :roll:
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:10 pm

here is the program for anyone who cares, Im sure any programmers out there will shake there heads at it. But dammit, it works!
#define SSR 11
#define OFF 13
#define LO 12
#define MED_LO 10
#define MED 9
#define MED_HI 8
#define HI 7
int SS1 = LOW;
int SS2 = LOW;
int SS3 = LOW;
int SS4 = LOW;
int SS5 = LOW;
int SS6 = LOW;

void setup()
{
pinMode(SSR, OUTPUT);
pinMode(OFF, INPUT);
pinMode(LO, INPUT);
pinMode(MED_LO, INPUT);
pinMode(MED, INPUT);
pinMode(MED_HI, INPUT);
pinMode(HI, INPUT);
Serial.begin(9600);
}

void loop()
{
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS5 = digitalRead(HI);

if((SS1 == HIGH) && (SS2 == LOW) && (SS3 == LOW) && (SS4 == LOW) && (SS5 == LOW) && (SS6 == LOW))
{
digitalWrite(SSR, LOW);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}

if((SS2 == HIGH) && (SS1 == LOW) && (SS3 == LOW) && (SS4 == LOW) && (SS5 == LOW) && (SS6 == LOW))
{
digitalWrite(SSR, HIGH);
delay(29);
digitalWrite(SSR, LOW);
delay(115);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}

if((SS3 == HIGH) && (SS1 == LOW) && (SS2 == LOW) && (SS4 == LOW) && (SS5 == LOW) && (SS6 == LOW))
{
digitalWrite(SSR, HIGH);
delay(58);
digitalWrite(SSR, LOW);
delay(86);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}

if((SS4 == HIGH) && (SS1 == LOW) && (SS2 == LOW) && (SS3 == LOW) && (SS5 == LOW) && (SS5 == LOW) && (SS6 == LOW))
{
digitalWrite(SSR, HIGH);
delay(86);
digitalWrite(SSR, LOW);
delay(58);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}

if((SS5 == HIGH) &&(SS1 == LOW) && (SS2 == LOW) && (SS3 == LOW) && (SS4 == LOW) && (SS6 == LOW))
{
digitalWrite(SSR, HIGH);
delay(115);
digitalWrite(SSR, LOW);
delay(29);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}

if((SS6 == HIGH) && (SS1 ==LOW) && (SS2 == LOW) && (SS3 == LOW) && (SS4 == LOW) && (SS5 == LOW))
{
digitalWrite(SSR, HIGH);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}



if((SS1 = HIGH) && (SS2 = HIGH))
{
delay(250);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}

if((SS2 = HIGH) && (SS3 = HIGH))
{
delay(250);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}

if((SS3 = HIGH) && (SS4 = HIGH))
{
delay(250);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}

if((SS4 = HIGH) && (SS5 = HIGH))
{
delay(250);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}
if((SS5 = HIGH) && (SS6 = HIGH))
{
delay(250);
SS1 = digitalRead(OFF);
SS2 = digitalRead(LO);
SS3 = digitalRead(MED_LO);
SS4 = digitalRead(MED);
SS5 = digitalRead(MED_HI);
SS6 = digitalRead(HI);
return;
}
}
Last edited by MuleKicker on Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Wed Feb 17, 2010 5:12 pm

Oh, L-Dubs....... I will hold this for ya as long as you need. No hurrys, and no worries. :D
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby upinthehills » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:38 pm

Its too cold here to run a mash,


You have a programmable heater now though. How about using that? The unit you have looks very useful, I used to have something like that that ran Basic 20 years ago. Ran the heating system for an apartment building on it. This micro controller looks much more useful. Have you found circuits for simple temperature measurement for it yet? You should be able to use a diode or thermocouple for it. Diode would probably be cheaper. There is a great book "The Art of Electronics" that covers all sorts of these things. Also I imagine there's a few here that can whip that stuff up. I made some diode temperature probes years ago for that other project, I wonder if I could find them. They make special chips just for this.

Looks like a National Semiconductor LM34, $2.50 from Digikey, would wire right up to the analog input of that micro controller. It would read from 0 to 100 C at 10 millivolts per degree Farenheit. http://courses.cit.cornell.edu/ee476/labs/s2009/LM34.PDF

They have cheap chips for thermocouples too.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby Kiwi-lembic » Wed Jul 14, 2010 8:25 pm

good stuff Mule
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby leiothrix » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:11 am

Waaaay overkill.

A simple 555 multivibrator would have been easier & cheaper.

A circuit such as:

Image

(from http://www.dprg.org/tutorials/2005-11a/index.html)

Would do the job fine.

If you want discrete control rather than continuous, replace the pot with a rotary switch with a few different resistors hanging off it.
R1 and C1 will have to be adjusted to get the frequency appropriate, but other than that it's a pretty simple circuit.

And for the shaking the head part - I'm not sure what micro you're using - but most of them have a dedicated PWM output function.

Not having a knock, but there are better ways.

edit: Of course the motor part can be replaced by the SSR or element, depending on what exactly you use for Q1.

Rob.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby Kiwi-lembic » Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:28 am

Muelkicker ...Hell ..your one of the the electronic wizz,s in here i reckon ..nice stuff ..like that electricity thing and some electronics ..way cool what you can make it do ..you really got it obviously ..excellent
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby rad14701 » Thu Jul 15, 2010 5:15 am

@leiothrix

Build it... I have several such schematics kicking around but they get pricey and complicated when you convert from schematic diagram to PCB to hands-on construction... Not projects for the feint of heart who know little about electronics...

Plus Mulekicker's controller has a lot of extra bells and whistles...
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:17 pm

Rad is right, most of these are complicated and expensive. This is a bit overkill, but pretty simple, and fairly cheap. I wanted to try to make an alternative to the simple triac, and one that handled alot more current. The watlow control that I have pictured is by far the cadilac of controllers, but way to complicated and expensive for most. Im trying to come up with an inexpensive alternative for high current control. I just built a controller that is infinately variable, 0-100% (with no fancy temp read out though.) It can handle 5500w. (25a 220v) It consists of a phase angle control module (bought on ebay) a 25a burstfire SSR, 24vac transformer, 25kohm potentiometer, a box and misc supplies. when finished, it is a box with a knob. turn the knob up for more power, down for less. If you play yer cards right on ebay, you can build it yerself for around $125.
check out this link:
http://www.nuwaveproducts.com/Datasheet ... rev1.1.pdf
I just built a controller fer walking wolf with this thing. Works great!
like rad said, those without a thorough understanding of electronics/electricity shouldnt try, you will waste alot of money or worse yet hurt/kill yerself or burn something down.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby leiothrix » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:17 pm

I understand about complexity of building a circuit, but not about danger or cost.

The single most expensive component form that would be the SSR at ~$20. The timer circuit itself should cost less than $10. The PCB I used was just prototype board (i.e. a grid of holes with a pad underneath. connections are formed with wire links or solder bridges).

As far as danger goes, the SSR is the only thing near mains voltage. The timer circuit is running of 12V, and would draw a grand total of something like 30mA. It could be built on a breadboard first controlling an LED. If someone is not confident attempting the mains part of the wiring, then that applies to any power controller, being my suggestion, Mulekicker's below, or those light dimmer triac based ones.

And either mine or Mulekicker's is far safer to build than the light dimmer circuits because the majority of the former is low voltage, whereas the latter is all at mains potential.

The controller I built (admittedly for mashing & boiling beer, principle is the same though) consists of a PID temperature controller and the 555 power controller. They both drive a 40A 240V SSR, which I've got running a 3.6kW element.

The PID will bring it to mash temps (~66*C). When I want to boil I flick the switch and it runs at full power until it hits 99.5*C, then using one of the alarms on the PID it turns on the power controller which I have set at ~75%. The PID also acts like a thermometer for the whole time.

I'm not trying to derail the thread, and if it works for you and is safe then it's all good. And that control box below is purty.

Back on topic again:
Is that an Arduino micro that you're using? The main thing I'd criticise about the code (having a programming background) is that you don't need to read the state of the input switches in every 'if' block, as they're just being read and the values discarded by the 'return;'s. The switches are read at the beginning of the loop() function, except you missed 'SS6 = digitalRead(HI);' at the top.

I suppose that I agree that a micro is easy for someone with no electronics background to use. Just straight wires everywhere and dumping the code on it.

Rob.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:42 pm

I am not a computer programmer, I think I mentioned that it is rough, but it worked. Yes, that is an arduino board. Although overkill it worked well, just ask LWTCS, he owns it now. I am not here to get into the guts of computer programming, nor do I claim to be an expert programmer (as I stated in the post with the program) I was simply on a quest to build an inexpensive heat controller capable of handling high current loads. As I think I originally stated in the first posts.
Like rad said, If ya got something better, build it. Show it to us.

Now, back to that, the link I posted to the phase angle controller. It is just that, and the beauty of that is that you can add higher amp ssrs to it if you need more than the 25A that i am using. (dont know who needs more. but hey, its there. ) Crydom makes a good burstfire ssr, and I have been lucky at getting them cheap. on the crydom relays, if the part number ends in -10 then it is burstfire. D2425-10 is the p/n of the 25A 220V relay Ive been using. Then you can buy 25k pots for about a buck a piece on ebay. I then get a 24v ac adapter, hack it apart, steal the transformer. Boom, theres my 24v power source to run the phase controller. The hardest thing I have tried to find is decent heat sinks. I am lucky though, my electrician buddy has been getting them for me off of old VFDs he has at work.
I will try to get a pic of the guts of the new one before I send it off to walking wolf this weekend as Im sure he is eagar to get his new controller. :D I will call this new controller "The sore dick" , as it will be hard to beat. :lol:

As for the PID controller pictured, I could build them for sale, but they would cost a guy $5-600. Maybe more if you want it in a fancy stainless box, like mine :P That one is my baby, and the simple controller I build with the phase control and the pot, does exactly the same thing, without the bells and whistles of "my baby."
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby LWTCS » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:48 pm

MuleKicker wrote: will call this new controller "The sore dick" , as it will be hard to beat.


Hahahahhahahhahahahhahahaaaaaaa falling outta my fucking chair.

Must say Brian,,,that heat sink is is fuggin kickin.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby WalkingWolf » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:49 pm

I sure hope it doesn't show up with THAT written across the front of it. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

For kicks I'd like to see my old lady open the box. I would be on the floor trying to catch my breath. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Fri Jul 16, 2010 3:55 pm

WalkingWolf wrote:I sure hope it doesn't show up with THAT written across the front of it. :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:

For kicks I'd like to see my old lady open the box. I would be on the floor trying to catch my breath. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Ohhh......speak of the devil... :lol: I already have it scribed in buddy.... :lol: I will have a camera in the box to catch the look on her face. " :shock: " :lol: :lol:

Yeah, larry, I was lucky enough to get one of the same for ww's. they are nice.. running high current, you might need to put a small fan on it.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby Kiwi-lembic » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:11 pm

[quote="leiothrix"]I understand about complexity of building a circuit, but not about danger or cost.

The single most expensive component form that would be the SSR at ~$20. The timer circuit itself should cost less than $10. The PCB I used was just prototype board (i.e. a grid of holes with a pad underneath. connections are formed with wire links or solder bridges).

boy ohhh this is definately the tecno post inside this place good stuff guys ..love it
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby LWTCS » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:16 pm

Been watching it like a hawk. When my rig is fully equalized, she don't need much heat. The heat sink is barely room temp warm during the meat of my runs.

And with my capacity she heats up quick, so I'd say she's well within any safety margins. Plus you set the controller up with big ole input and out put cord.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby Kiwi-lembic » Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:23 pm

LWTCS wrote:Been watching it like a hawk. When my rig is fully equalized, she don't need much heat. The heat sink is barely room temp warm during the meat of my runs.

And with my capacity she heats up quick, so I'd say she's well within any safety margins. Plus you set the controller up with big ole input and out put cord.

"Cant beat Horsepower" ..why wouldnt ya .........
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby leiothrix » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:23 pm

MuleKicker wrote:I am not a computer programmer, I think I mentioned that it is rough, but it worked. Yes, that is an arduino board. Although overkill it worked well, just ask LWTCS, he owns it now. I am not here to get into the guts of computer programming, nor do I claim to be an expert programmer (as I stated in the post with the program) I was simply on a quest to build an inexpensive heat controller capable of handling high current loads. As I think I originally stated in the first posts.
Like rad said, If ya got something better, build it. Show it to us.


Regarding the programming bit -- I'm not a programmer by trade but do a fare bit of it in my job (SysAdmin). I haven't used an Arduino, I've got one laying around and haven't had a chance to do anything with it. If the Arduino uses standard C scoping rules the 'high' setting will never be read in as SS6 is only read in the 'if' blocks before being discarded. I'm guessing that because it's a micro C scopes don't apply though. I'm just trying to help here, not knocking at all.

Pics of my controller below. This feels like a thread hijack, but I since I was asked by the OP. Oh - and as far as better goes, at the end of the day they both do basically the same thing.

IMG_4364.jpg

IMG_4365.jpg

IMG_4366.jpg


Bear in mind this is for beer, rather than a still.

On the left is the PID controller. This brings the HLT up to mashing temps and holds it there.

The knob in the middle is a switch, and selects between PID, Off and PWM control. The knob on the right is % power out.

PID functions as a thermometer even when it's not controlling the SSR, so I can always tell what the temp is.

One of the alarm outputs on the PID is used to turn on the PWM. I.e. when the switch is put in to boil mode the element gets full power. When the temp gets above 99.5*C the alarm relay trips which turns on PWM output.

I haven't been trying to put down your controller, I just think (and you even said as much) that using a micro where a 555 would do is overkill. On the other hand, if it's easier for you/others, and it works and is safe, it doesn't matter.

Rob.

edit: fixed pictures.
edit2: Re scoping rules - SS1-6 are declared as globals, so that whole bit above about scoping was a bit pointless. The rest still stands.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:15 pm

Kiwi-lembic wrote:
leiothrix wrote:I understand about complexity of building a circuit, but not about danger or cost.

The single most expensive component form that would be the SSR at ~$20. The timer circuit itself should cost less than $10. The PCB I used was just prototype board (i.e. a grid of holes with a pad underneath. connections are formed with wire links or solder bridges).

boy ohhh this is definately the tecno post inside this place good stuff guys ..love it


Actually the most expensive component of "the sore dick" :lol: (i think the name will stick!) is the phase angle controller. At $60US. A burstfire ssr @$20 is a good deal. But you can find them if you look hard enough.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby LWTCS » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:32 pm

Sore dick,,,tee hee.

You need help sun :lol: :lol:

Never thought I'd be asking a feller named mulekicker for a sore dick.

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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby WalkingWolf » Fri Jul 16, 2010 7:37 pm

Now L-Dub'ya
Dat man he got a new baby at home and you know itz'while fore him and the missus can have relations. Don't go pokin fun at no feller on a long dry spell. :wink:
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Sat Jul 17, 2010 4:32 am

LWTCS wrote:
Never thought I'd be asking a feller named mulekicker for a sore dick.


Holyshit...... when you put it that way......... sounds baaaaaad.... :shock:

Oh.......... and dry spells?????????? I could tell you about dry spells........ :?
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby WalkingWolf » Sat Jul 17, 2010 5:51 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

MuleKicker
I got five yung'uns at home. Aint much you can tell me 'bout "dry spells" that I aint already been through. Have faith my brutha, the rains will come again. :D
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:39 am

Its funny you say that. . This is my first, everyone told me "get it while you can" I laughed...... Now I understand. :cry:
5 youngins??? your a brave man. Im wondering if I want 2.. :lol:

Here are the pics of yer new toy man. 25A 220V infinately variable Phase angle controller.......Otherwise known as the sore dick :oops:
Attachments
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The package deal.
DSC020521.JPG
The cooling system
DSC020511.JPG
The guts
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby WalkingWolf » Sat Jul 17, 2010 6:56 am

Soon to be "Proud Pappa" of a new infinately variable Phase angle controller. 8)
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby rad14701 » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:07 am

Nice work, Mulekicker... Looks like you've got the 220/240 volt controller nailed down...
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby LWTCS » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:13 am

Brian, I need mine with a cone or domed shaped cover so that I may at least fondle and fiddle with something titty shaped :?

Seriously, nice unit.

Will there be a problem installing the power cords in an in-line or linear fashion?

8------------@-----------8
Last edited by LWTCS on Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Sat Jul 17, 2010 7:15 am

LWTCS wrote:Brian, I need mine with a cone or domed shaped cover so that I may at least fondle and fiddle with something titty shaped :?

Seriously, nice unit.


Would a "C" cup work, or would you like something bigger?? :lol:
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Re: Mulekicker's Heat Controller Project

Postby MuleKicker » Sat Jul 17, 2010 11:41 am

LWTCS wrote:Will there be a problem installing the power cords in an in-line or linear fashion?

8------------@-----------8


Shouldnt be, depends on the size box I use, and where the guts get placed. If It makes you happy, we can make it happen :D
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