Motor

If it plugs in, post it here.

Moderator: Site Moderator

User avatar
rgreen2002
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
Location: Northeastern USA

Motor

Post by rgreen2002 » Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:20 am

I have found a motor on craigslist that looks like a good buy. I am considering it for a mill in the future. Here are the known specs:

HP: 1/3, RPM: 1725, Phase: 1, Volts: 115, HZ: 60, Amps: 6.8 Rating: Continuous, Insul Class: B,
Shaft: 1/2: x 1-1/2", Frame: 48

It has an existing power cord and has a built-in ON/OFF toggle switch.

There is no mention of torque but if I use the formula T = HP x 5252/rpm I get close to 1.0 Ftlb or 12 Inlb which seems low....

Since I only know how my hand drill works with my mill now.... I'm not sure what to look for here. I would possibly use it for the corona for now with a possible upgrade to a monster mill type setup in the future.

He's asking $65 and its close to the house so I thought I would pass it by some folks who are in the know!
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

Hank Reardon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: Motor

Post by Hank Reardon » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:19 am

RG,

Not a horrible price if it is made by Dayton or baldor. Not sure about your application. Seems a little underpowered. The mills shown at the link are 1hp and can be found on Craig's list for 120-200 usually.

http://preparedldsfamily.blogspot.com/2 ... r.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

cob
Distiller
Posts: 2139
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: little puffs of dust where my feet used to be

Re: Motor

Post by cob » Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:31 am

comparing the amps and RPM of the motor to the amps and RPM of your drill will give you

an idea of relative power, then factor in that your drill has gear reduction to increase

output torque. seems a little underpowered.
be water my friend

User avatar
shadylane
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 7342
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Motor

Post by shadylane » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:04 pm

You going to need at least a 4:1 reduction if the mill is one of the $35 Chinese burr mills
Also the cheap mills don't have a bearing or bushing, In other words they don't mind being spun with a drill
But if you put a big pulley on the mill, it will wear really fast.

Hank Reardon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: Motor

Post by Hank Reardon » Sun Jul 31, 2016 9:42 pm

shadylane wrote:You going to need at least a 4:1 reduction if the mill is one of the $35 Chinese burr mills
Also the cheap mills don't have a bearing or bushing, In other words they don't mind being spun with a drill
But if you put a big pulley on the mill, it will wear really fast.
4:1 reduction still puts it at >400RPM. I don't know a thing about mills, but that is moving some stone/blades.

User avatar
rgreen2002
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
Location: Northeastern USA

Re: Motor

Post by rgreen2002 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:09 pm

Sooo...general consensus is a NO.... many thanks folks!
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

freefall
Swill Maker
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:57 am

Re: Motor

Post by freefall » Wed Aug 03, 2016 2:53 pm

I find it hard to believe that a hand drill is used a lot , But a 1/3 hp. motor is not torquey enough.

User avatar
shadylane
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 7342
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Motor

Post by shadylane » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:02 pm

freefall wrote:I find it hard to believe that a hand drill is used a lot , But a 1/3 hp. motor is not torquey enough.
But it's the truth. :lol:
My 1/2" drill consumes around 850 watts of electricity.
That's around 1 horsepower and at the right speed for the mill.

Hank Reardon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: Motor

Post by Hank Reardon » Wed Aug 03, 2016 5:30 pm

freefall wrote:I find it hard to believe that a hand drill is used a lot , But a 1/3 hp. motor is not torquey enough.
Sounds like an opportunity for you to purchase a cheap motor. :)

freefall
Swill Maker
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:57 am

Re: Motor

Post by freefall » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:22 am

I have a 1/3 horse hp motor and a cheap hf half inch drill. Hopefully will be getting a grain mill in the next few months. I am having a guy I work with deliver as much corn as I want late fall.

Hank Reardon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: Motor

Post by Hank Reardon » Thu Aug 04, 2016 4:54 am

Very nice. Let us know how it goes.

varocketry
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 512
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:15 pm
Location: somewhere not near Detroit

Re: Motor

Post by varocketry » Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:03 am

I hear its worth a trip to the dump occasionally to find old washing machines to salvage a motor.
-Just need something else to build. -

freefall
Swill Maker
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri May 20, 2016 12:57 am

Re: Motor

Post by freefall » Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:31 pm

Hank Reardon wrote:Very nice. Let us know how it goes.
will do. I am really interested on the performance myself. The #s on my drill and motor are similar. just can't tell the efficiency of the drill to know the hp rating.

User avatar
rgreen2002
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
Location: Northeastern USA

Re: Motor

Post by rgreen2002 » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:06 am

In the continuing search for a motor (not looking too hard...) I found this:

https://southjersey.craigslist.org/tls/5857338882.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

1/4 HP, 1725 rpm, 115v

he also has a second motor for $60.
3/4 hp
3/4 hp
OR both for $70.

What do you think? Will plan for a double roller system to drive this. Aim for a reduction around 200 rpm (once I figure out how to pull that off) :mrgreen:
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
Posts: 6698
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Motor

Post by HDNB » Wed Nov 02, 2016 8:45 am

i'd buy that leeson farm duty 3/4 hp for 60 bucks if i could get it. BTW: wire it like the right hand side schematic on 240vac. the left side is for "lo volt" the motor will overheat and go into thermal protect if wired to 240vac.

i recently rigged a 6" wide roller mill with a 1/2 horse, on a 4:1 reduction. it is underpowered.

if there is grain in the hopper it will not start. has to be rolling already...as long as it's started, it chews rye like a champ, about 2 lbs a minute. for malt barley i have to open it a hair, and once it starts chewing grain gotta keep going or its a bitch to start again...and the malt is much slower...about .75lbs/minute. i don't quite understand this as malt apears to be more brittle and softer than rye kernals.

i buy my corn cracked, i don't think it has enough torque to do corn. i have a bit of whole corn i bought for malting, i could throw a bit in but i'm sure it would have to wide open and run at least twice.

i'm about to try a 2.5hp on a 2:1 on my big mill now that my finger bandage finally came off and my hand will fit in a welding glove again.
Attachments
IMG_1054 - Copy.JPG
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.

User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 11471
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Motor

Post by LWTCS » Wed Nov 02, 2016 10:15 am

Need to step that to 40 RPMs (or the like).
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

DFitz
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Sleeping under a bridge near you

Re: Motor

Post by DFitz » Wed Nov 02, 2016 1:22 pm

I've got a 30:1 reduction gear I picked up cheap. It's been gathering dust since. My thoughts were to use it to power a press. On a 3/4 hp motor it'd be a brute.
Just sayin...

User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 11471
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Motor

Post by LWTCS » Wed Nov 02, 2016 3:51 pm

DFitz wrote:I've got a 30:1 reduction gear I picked up cheap. It's been gathering dust since. My thoughts were to use it to power a press. On a 3/4 hp motor it'd be a brute.
Just sayin...
+1
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

User avatar
HDNB
Site Mod
Posts: 6698
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:04 am
Location: the f-f-fu frozen north

Re: Motor

Post by HDNB » Thu Nov 03, 2016 6:44 am

LWTCS wrote:
DFitz wrote:I've got a 30:1 reduction gear I picked up cheap. It's been gathering dust since. My thoughts were to use it to power a press. On a 3/4 hp motor it'd be a brute.
Just sayin...
+1
grain dewatering has been kicking my ass. I'm working up a screw press (like vincent corp) with a 1 HP and a 100:1 reduction... are you doing similar with your press?
early stage prototype from plastic and steel looks promising, i'm just ordering SS auger flights now!
I finally quit drinking for good.

now i drink for evil.

User avatar
rgreen2002
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
Location: Northeastern USA

Re: Motor

Post by rgreen2002 » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:40 am

DFitz wrote:I've got a 30:1 reduction gear I picked up cheap. It's been gathering dust since. My thoughts were to use it to power a press. On a 3/4 hp motor it'd be a brute.
Just sayin...
DFitz.. where did you get it on the cheap? These things are pricey, even at surplus center
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 11471
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Motor

Post by LWTCS » Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:49 pm

HDNB are you dewatering after distillation?

admin edit (cause i can!) i sent a PM so as to not get off of motor topic. HDNB
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

User avatar
rgreen2002
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
Location: Northeastern USA

Re: Motor

Post by rgreen2002 » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:43 am

HDNB wrote:...i recently rigged a 6" wide roller mill with a 1/2 horse, on a 4:1 reduction. it is underpowered.

I am surprised at that; and that is great info HDNB. All these homebrew forums I have been reading have been saying that 1/4 -1/2 HP is enough and to step them down with gear reducers or pulley systems. I want to be sure I have enough power... I don't plan on crushing whole corn but I do plan on grinding down cracked corn finer. That said... I want to be able to crush whole corn if needed, there is a lot of real cheap deer corn around here right now...

I bought both motors because for $70 I think it was a great deal. Both wired for 115V and the Leeson with a switch installed. I will check on the wiring as you suggested too. I'm planning on the 3/4 HP for the mill and maybe I can figure a way to use the 1/4 for a stirring device when I mash. Will need to find a good way to go from horizontal to vertical for the shaft.

I found that the gear reducers on eBay seem cheaper than even surplus center so I will have to look into that next. Finally I will need a mill (and a stand...hoping to run across an old vanity someone throws out or else I'm building).

As far as dewatering goes... I hang the bag over my drum for a day. 80-90 lb pressing down on itself is a hell of a press! Doing this I just got about 35 gallons back from a 40 gallon ferment. I'm good with that loss - 12% total volume. If you figure 5 gal loss of a 7% ABV wash that's less than 1/2 gallon of recoverable EtOH and even less of it as "good" EtOH

I do like the idea of the screw press though HD!
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

User avatar
rgreen2002
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
Location: Northeastern USA

Re: Motor

Post by rgreen2002 » Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:26 pm

So I picked up the two motors and they look and run great. I'm slowly working on the mill (go cheap with the possibility of having to replace it or go big $$...? ) and looking toward the drive. Just curious....outside of measuring it directly...how do I find the diameter of these motor shafts?

Trying to decide gear reduction vs pulley as well... I am favoring reduction as it takes up less space with less moving parts to hurt myself with. The downside there is that I'm finding the gear reduction motors to be near $100 or better. Anyone have a good source?
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

DFitz
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Sleeping under a bridge near you

Re: Motor

Post by DFitz » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:23 pm

rgreen2002 wrote:
DFitz wrote:I've got a 30:1 reduction gear I picked up cheap. It's been gathering dust since. My thoughts were to use it to power a press. On a 3/4 hp motor it'd be a brute.
Just sayin...
DFitz.. where did you get it on the cheap? These things are pricey, even at surplus center
Sorry about the late reply. I get sidetracked with work. I found this on eBay. As I recall I paid $75 + shipping. Still in all under $100 which to me was a great deal. I used it for a while as a stirrer but this was like using a cement mixer to make biscuits so I put it on the shelf. I have a need to press a great deal of corn so it might go to that but before I try using the reduction gear I want to see if an air cylinder might work. This gear weighs about 40 lbs alone yet to add a 1/2hp motor would almost double that weight.

User avatar
shadylane
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 7342
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: Motor

Post by shadylane » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:55 pm

Just a thought
Drills, grinders, belt sanders and many other cheap power tools have high power electric motors with gear reduction :thumbup:
They may have a short duty cycle, but will last more than long enough for our needs.

DFitz
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 10:16 am
Location: Sleeping under a bridge near you

Re: Motor

Post by DFitz » Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:56 pm

rgreen2002 wrote:So I picked up the two motors and they look and run great. I'm slowly working on the mill (go cheap with the possibility of having to replace it or go big $$...? ) and looking toward the drive. Just curious....outside of measuring it directly...how do I find the diameter of these motor shafts?

Trying to decide gear reduction vs pulley as well... I am favoring reduction as it takes up less space with less moving parts to hurt myself with. The downside there is that I'm finding the gear reduction motors to be near $100 or better. Anyone have a good source?
I find using a 1-1/2" pulley on the motor and a 12-13" pulley on the mill will give you 65ish-70 rpm. While this is not going to crush whole corn, it's more than enough to mill cracked corn, rye, wheat, and barley/malt. Myself, I use a 1/2" drill motor but I do have the components indicated above to eventually build my mill. I know about the RPM and power by using this setup for another purpose. Keep in mind I would only consider this motor if it was to meet the 1/2hp rating.

Hank Reardon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: Motor

Post by Hank Reardon » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:15 pm

DFitz wrote:
rgreen2002 wrote:
DFitz wrote:I've got a 30:1 reduction gear I picked up cheap. It's been gathering dust since. My thoughts were to use it to power a press. On a 3/4 hp motor it'd be a brute.
Just sayin...
DFitz.. where did you get it on the cheap? These things are pricey, even at surplus center
Sorry about the late reply. I get sidetracked with work. I found this on eBay. As I recall I paid $75 + shipping. Still in all under $100 which to me was a great deal. I used it for a while as a stirrer but this was like using a cement mixer to make biscuits so I put it on the shelf. I have a need to press a great deal of corn so it might go to that but before I try using the reduction gear I want to see if an air cylinder might work. This gear weighs about 40 lbs alone yet to add a 1/2hp motor would almost double that weight.
Rg, I've never been a mathematician, so searching is helpful for me. As you figure your desired rpm, and assuming your motors rpm is 1750... you can figure what reducer you want, or your pulley size here:

http://www.blocklayer.com/pulley-belteng.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I haven't done this particular thing with a mill before, but have used a combo gear reducer and pulley system using a vbelt to walk Mrs. Reardon's horses in circles. Also to build a chicken plucker. :)

Anyway, if you design it safely, belts and pulleys are super cheap, durable/reliable, and readily available. Just need a lightweight box!!

Anyway, the calc can help you establish your reduction, and then you get to make a choice for your design.

Good luck!

Hank Reardon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: Motor

Post by Hank Reardon » Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:36 pm

rgreen2002 wrote:
I found that the gear reducers on eBay seem cheaper than even surplus center so I will have to look into that next. Finally I will need a mill (and a stand...hoping to run across an old vanity someone throws out or else I'm building).
One thing to think about as you are searching ebay for gear boxes/reducers. Note the input shaft and output shaft sizes...when you buy something that is 1-3/32" on the shaft, you will have to machine a pulley or adaptor for your motor. It can quickly add up to more than if you went and bought something at retail. I've noticed some oddball stuff on ebay when it comes to that. I would hate for you to "get a deal" on a gearbox to then pay $100 to buy a lovejoy to make them a marital couple. :)

User avatar
rgreen2002
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1288
Joined: Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:57 pm
Location: Northeastern USA

Re: Motor

Post by rgreen2002 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:01 pm

Hey Hank! I agree with ya because I looked for a while and I have to say I can't FIND a real deal on a gearbox that seemed worthwhile. I am coming to grips with the pulley system and have tagged a few at amazon I'm looking at.

I have to get down to the basement to check shaft sizes and do a little math but I see a 1.5 on the motor and a 14 in on the mill... mostly because larger sizes are getting difficult to find at good prices! :mrgreen:

I just looked at the site....it's friggin awesome! This will make light work of the math I was getting ready to work on! Thanks!

My rough math looked pretty good btw... if I go 1.5 and 14 at 1725 I get down to 185 rpm.... respectable. Maybe McMaster will have a bigger pulley... :think:
HD Glossary - Open this
A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers - start here
BEST WAY TO GET ANSWERS FROM HOME DISTILLER
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."

Hank Reardon
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 394
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:02 pm

Re: Motor

Post by Hank Reardon » Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:23 am

rgreen2002 wrote:Hey Hank! I agree with ya because I looked for a while and I have to say I can't FIND a real deal on a gearbox that seemed worthwhile. I am coming to grips with the pulley system and have tagged a few at amazon I'm looking at.

I have to get down to the basement to check shaft sizes and do a little math but I see a 1.5 on the motor and a 14 in on the mill... mostly because larger sizes are getting difficult to find at good prices! :mrgreen:

I just looked at the site....it's friggin awesome! This will make light work of the math I was getting ready to work on! Thanks!

My rough math looked pretty good btw... if I go 1.5 and 14 at 1725 I get down to 185 rpm.... respectable. Maybe McMaster will have a bigger pulley... :think:
You can find them around. Surprisingly, I found one in a farm equipment machine shop that was 16"...was like $30. Lucky find for me.

Circle math never was my strong suit. I like pie, and don't understand pi. :)

Good luck on your decision...

Post Reply