Is there an ELECTRICIAN in the house?

[varocketry]

s there a practicing ELECTRICIAN here on this board?

I'd like to ask a couple questions about wiring up a 220v heater element for a keg boiler ... where to insert an ammeter ... where to insert a SPST switch to cut off one powered leg to the element, etc.

[rad14701]

s there a practicing ELECTRICIAN here on this board?

I'd like to ask a couple questions about wiring up a 220v heater element for a keg boiler ... where to insert an ammeter ... where to insert a SPST switch to cut off one powered leg to the element, etc.

For 220V, both legs to the element are live so both need to be switched to make things safe... Ammeters, as a rule, work best on the supply side of your controller to avoid having them be fried at low current flow, especially digital units... Same goes for a switch, kill it before the controller circuitry...

Switch > Ammeter > Controller > Element

OR

Ammeter > Switch > Controller > Element

[Snackson]

What RAD said. I posted a response with a few links over at AD.

[varocketry]

Thanks Rad.

Both legs are switched in my setup. My current setup is the following and it didn't look right as I contemplated the 'switch a leg' question this morning:
I now use the 10000w Chinese controller on my setup. It's been very reliable. I have an ANALOG AMP meter between the controller and the 240v element on one of the two legs (red with meter, black no meter).

Switch > Controller > Ammeter on one leg > Element

So, your saying the ammeter should be on one of the power legs BEFORE the controller, is that correct? Somehow this doesn't seem correct, unless the higher/lower Amperage can be sensed on either side of the controller.

Hence, why I thought I'd search out better knowledge.

Question: If I want to install a switch on one of the legs to reduce power after the LM/VM still comes up to temperature (recommended by ZeroGee), should I pick the black element line? I'm searching for the diagrams........

--
Thanks Snackson, I'll head there now.

[WIski]

Snack Said,

What RAD said. I posted a response with a few links over at AD.

What's AD??

[varocketry]

Rad:
So if I understand your statement, you'd suggest placing the Ammeter at either A or B, but not location C where I've installed it. Is that correct?

So ..... if I wanted to install a Switch to turn off one of the legs to reduce power to the element, would you suggest it be installed at location B (before the controller)?
Or even at A before the contactor?

Thanks.

[steelmb]

ElementControllerv3(Radquestion).jpg

Rad:
So if I understand your statement, you'd suggest placing the Ammeter at either A or B, but not location C where I've installed it. Is that correct?

So ..... if I wanted to install a Switch to turn off one of the legs to reduce power to the element, would you suggest it be installed at location B (before the controller)?

Thanks.

The controller is used to control power to the element. Putting a switch anywhere on either leg will completely shut down the element.

[Hank Reardon]

The controller is used to control power to the element. Putting a switch anywhere on either leg will completely shut down the element.

I'm no electrician, but my 5500w element will run as a 2750w on 120v power (one hot leg). In my circumstance, the switch on my controller de-energizes both hot legs.

[steelmb]

The controller is used to control power to the element. Putting a switch anywhere on either leg will completely shut down the element.

I'm no electrician, but my 5500w element will run as a 2750w on 120v power (one hot leg). In my circumstance, the switch on my controller de-energizes both hot legs.

The switch would have to be a SPDT switch that would switch the leg from the element from a hot to the neutral. There is a ground but no neutral in that schematic.

Edit: Upon closer inspection I think there is a neutral. However the controller should still be all that is required for controlling the power.

[Snackson]

Snack Said,

What RAD said. I posted a response with a few links over at AD.

What's AD??

Artisan Distiller, another forum.

[rad14701]

Rad:
So if I understand your statement, you'd suggest placing the Ammeter at either A or B, but not location C where I've installed it. Is that correct?

Correct, with the exception that most analog meters would also work at point C...

So ..... if I wanted to install a Switch to turn off one of the legs to reduce power to the element, would you suggest it be installed at location B (before the controller)?
Or even at A before the contactor?

Simply switching off one leg will not provide 120V because that line isn't connected to Neutral at the element to complete the 120V circuit... The circuit is open...

[varocketry]

Rad:

Ahh. okay.

Simply switching off one leg will not provide 120V because that line isn't connected to Neutral at the element to complete the 120V circuit... The circuit is open...

I didn;t know where to connect the neutral on the element as there are only two screws, two obvious connection points. Where should I connect the neutral?

[Snackson]

I didn;t know where to connect the neutral on the element as there are only two screws, two obvious connection points. Where should I connect the neutral?

Are you going to run it at 120v? If so, one hot (typically black) and neutral (white).

If running at 240v, both hots go to element.

[rad14701]

Rad:

Ahh. okay.

Simply switching off one leg will not provide 120V because that line isn't connected to Neutral at the element to complete the 120V circuit... The circuit is open...

I didn;t know where to connect the neutral on the element as there are only two screws, two obvious connection points. Where should I connect the neutral?

You would need a two position switch that allows the second leg to either pull 120V or connect to Neutral... Only one 120V leg goes through the controller so the other leg that runs directly to the element, preferably through a switch, can be 120V OR Neutral for 240V or 120V respectively... There should be several examples of such circuits here in the forums...

[varocketry]

It looks like this might fit the bill using a 30amp 3-way switch:

Or a DPDT switch:

[rad14701]

Just my opinion but you're making it more complicated than it needs to be... I'd just move that DPDT switch to before the controller and run the controller off either 120V or 240V... That reduces the number of switches/contactors from three to two...

[Yummyrum]

Forget the 110v option .... What is the point ? .... Your controller will reduce power anyway , that's its purpose .

Keep the nuetral out of the curcuit .... It is not needed at all .

put your 2 pole on/off switch inline with both the live wires .... That's all you need ... And as you have an analog Ammeter , you can connect it anywhere and it will work as current in a series curcuit is the same at all points ( but after the switch would be best from a safety point of view)

[rad14701]

Forget the 110v option .... What is the point ? .... Your controller will reduce power anyway , that's its purpose .

Very true... The only exception would be if someone had multiple boilers with both 120V and 240V heating elements... Then one would have to weigh controller complexity against 120V element replacement with a 240V unit...

[shadylane]

I might be mistaken But the way the switches are wired is wrong.

[papapro]

Rad that depends where you live in North America system is 240 v on two legs with neutral being grounded and i Europe hey use 3 phase where one phase is 220 and 3 is 360 V. The clue is with original question that he lives where is probably 3 phase system. So if it is in Europe SPST would be OK because oter leg is a ground or 0V.

[rad14701]

Rad that depends where you live in North America system is 240 v on two legs with neutral being grounded and i Europe hey use 3 phase where one phase is 220 and 3 is 360 V. The clue is with original question that he lives where is probably 3 phase system. So if it is in Europe SPST would be OK because oter leg is a ground or 0V.

He lives right here in the US which means my advice was accurate, or didn't you see that he lives near Detroit, Michigan... All of the US and Canada use the same voltages, as does Mexico...

[still_stirrin]

He lives right here in the US which means my advice was accurate, or didn't you see that he lives NOT near Detroit, Michigan... All of the US and Canada use the same voltages, as does Mexico...

Actually, speculating on his user name, "varocketry", I'd say his home location is closer to you...like around Virginia.

[rad14701]

He lives right here in the US which means my advice was accurate, or didn't you see that he lives NOT near Detroit, Michigan... All of the US and Canada use the same voltages, as does Mexico...

Actually, speculating on his user name, "varocketry", I'd say his home location is closer to you...like around Virginia.

Ahhh... "somewhere not near Detroit"

Regardless, if he's in the Western hemisphere he's using 120V/240V...

[papapro]

220v was misleading because every one in US and Canada uses term 240 which means both phases and neutral. As statad before 220v derives from Y system. Iknow European standard and North American and deal
with this for over 40 years.

[papapro]

s there a practicing ELECTRICIAN here on this board?

I'd like to ask a couple questions about wiring up a 220v heater element for a keg boiler ... where to insert an ammeter ... where to insert a SPST switch to cut off one powered leg to the element, etc.

And this was original question. And I did not look at his location some people do not state theirs location.

Regards ,papapro