Hot plate

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Buster
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Hot plate

Post by Buster »

I have a 1500watt hot plate but I would to find one with more power any recommendations?
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Re: Hot plate

Post by StillerBoy »

Hot plates with over 1500 watt are commercial and run on 240 volt and very costly. or cut up an old stove and set it up to use it as a hot plate.. stove element are usually 2400 watts and work will for 3 to 4 gallon pot.. or something similar to still_stirrin has setup.. http://w.homedistiller.org/forum/viewto ... 88&t=59854" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

That's what I started off with..

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Buster
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Re: Hot plate

Post by Buster »

That is cool I never thought of an apartment size stove . I am setup for 5 gallon runs and use a 6 gallon stock pot on a 1500 watt hot plate, I have striped the controls off the hot plate and run with a PID controller and a variable SSR. It all works but it's slow and has poor temp control till it gets to set .point (might be that I have no patients). I have the 240 outlet that I use for my welder but I am not sure how I would set up the SSR for 240 most of the ones I have found are for 240 VAC are 3-32 VDC control and the one I use now is 0-5 VDC on a 4-20mA with a 250 ohm resistor. I really like the hot plate set up for ease of storage and still clean up. Thanks for the input and pic I like what you did and my steal some of you ideals.
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NZChris
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Re: Hot plate

Post by NZChris »

Buster wrote:That is cool I never thought of an apartment size stove . I am setup for 5 gallon runs and use a 6 gallon stock pot on a 1500 watt hot plate, I have striped the controls off the hot plate and run with a PID controller and a variable SSR. It all works but it's slow and has poor temp control till it gets to set .point (might be that I have no patients). I have the 240 outlet that I use for my welder but I am not sure how I would set up the SSR for 240 most of the ones I have found are for 240 VAC are 3-32 VDC control and the one I use now is 0-5 VDC on a 4-20mA with a 250 ohm resistor. I really like the hot plate set up for ease of storage and still clean up. Thanks for the input and pic I like what you did and my steal some of you ideals.
What temperature are you trying to control with a PID?
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still_stirrin
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Re: Hot plate

Post by still_stirrin »

Buster wrote:....(might be that I have no patients)....sick people???
If you mean your ability to relax while waiting on the system to catch up....that's spelled, "patience". Sounds the same, but spelled different. And has a completely different meaning.
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skow69
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Re: Hot plate

Post by skow69 »

So, then he does have sick people?
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ShineonCrazyDiamond
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Re: Hot plate

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

still_stirrin wrote:
Buster wrote:....(might be that I have no patients)....sick people???
If you mean your ability to relax while waiting on the system to catch up....that's spelled, "patience". Sounds the same, but spelled different. And has a completely different meaning.
Make you feel better?
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Hilltop
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Re: Hot plate

Post by Hilltop »

I have used several of these through the years, and can say without a doubt I do not like the stove type coil element. The best element is solid, the type you find in electric skillets. They don't burn out.

Step one buy a 1500 watt electric skillet

2. Cut off three side walls to make a flat surface, grind everything smooth. Use ball peen hammer to make it flat as possible. The more contact with the pot the better, if you see a gap just tap it down.

It seems to work better as the piece of metal on top of the element acts as a heat sink. Since it's a solid element built to the bottom of the skillet they don't go out unless you melt the pan.

As with all hotplates place them on top of bricks or steel. The heat put out on the bottom side of an electric skillet will melt right through a plastic table. This type element is very similar to a stainless steel water heater element. It cycles like all of them, if it didn't the pan would eventually melt.
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Re: Hot plate

Post by Buster »

NZChris wrote:
Buster wrote:That is cool I never thought of an apartment size stove . I am setup for 5 gallon runs and use a 6 gallon stock pot on a 1500 watt hot plate, I have striped the controls off the hot plate and run with a PID controller and a variable SSR. It all works but it's slow and has poor temp control till it gets to set .point (might be that I have no patients). I have the 240 outlet that I use for my welder but I am not sure how I would set up the SSR for 240 most of the ones I have found are for 240 VAC are 3-32 VDC control and the one I use now is 0-5 VDC on a 4-20mA with a 250 ohm resistor. I really like the hot plate set up for ease of storage and still clean up. Thanks for the input and pic I like what you did and my steal some of you ideals.
What temperature are you trying to control with a PID?
I have to run at about 185 to 190 there is an error in the system. But I just reconfigured my still so I will have to see how it runs now.
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NZChris
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Re: Hot plate

Post by NZChris »

Buster wrote:I have to run at about 185 to 190 there is an error in the system. But I just reconfigured my still so I will have to see how it runs now.
Are you running a pot still? If you are, and you are trying to run 185 to 190, the error is in the method you are trying to use, not in your system. Trying to control the temperature in a pot still doesn't work.
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Re: Hot plate

Post by Buster »

NZChris wrote:
Buster wrote:I have to run at about 185 to 190 there is an error in the system. But I just reconfigured my still so I will have to see how it runs now.
Are you running a pot still? If you are, and you are trying to run 185 to 190, the error is in the method you are trying to use, not in your system. Trying to control the temperature in a pot still doesn't work.
Why will temp control on a pot still not work? I do have a temp error I used a calibrated hot box to check my controller and there is a 10 DegF temp offset.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Hot plate

Post by still_stirrin »

Buster wrote:
NZChris wrote:...Trying to control the temperature in a pot still doesn't work.
Why will temp control on a pot still not work? I do have a temp error I used a calibrated hot box to check my controller and there is a 10 DegF temp offset.
Read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 65&t=16635
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
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Re: Hot plate

Post by Buster »

still_stirrin wrote:
Buster wrote:
NZChris wrote:...Trying to control the temperature in a pot still doesn't work.
Why will temp control on a pot still not work? I do have a temp error I used a calibrated hot box to check my controller and there is a 10 DegF temp offset.
Read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 65&t=16635
Ok I understand the boiling temps of different liquids, I had found that post but will admit I did not read the whole thread. I thought that he was talking about just controlling the heat input. I am measuring the gas temp in the vapor stream and controlling off that. I have a ramp rate set to increase the temp as the temperature rise stalls. But if I understand this correctly there is no benefit to this. This type of control is only beneficial on a reflex still. So I should just crank up the heat and collect the alcohol?

Thanks for your help and the vocabulary lesson!
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Re: Hot plate

Post by Pikey »

Buster wrote:
still_stirrin wrote:
Buster wrote:
NZChris wrote:...Trying to control the temperature in a pot still doesn't work.
Why will temp control on a pot still not work? I do have a temp error I used a calibrated hot box to check my controller and there is a 10 DegF temp offset.
Read this: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 65&t=16635
Ok I understand the boiling temps of different liquids, I had found that post but will admit I did not read the whole thread. I thought that he was talking about just controlling the heat input. I am measuring the gas temp in the vapor stream and controlling off that. I have a ramp rate set to increase the temp as the temperature rise stalls. But if I understand this correctly there is no benefit to this. This type of control is only beneficial on a reflex still. So I should just crank up the heat and collect the alcohol?
............
You've made the mistake that just about everyone who makes their own way into the hobby makes - I certainly did. 8)

It is a classic error, but it is so logical to set the temp just above bp for ethanol and boil it all off. Actually it's a really good job it doesn't work like that - else we'd all be making neutral at 100% abv irrespective of our ingredients !

I think that only those who had a knowledgeable mentor or were otherwise spoonfed on entry to the hobby, do not make this mistake :lol:

Yes, just let the temperature rise and control the still by the product stream, which should be about a pencil lead thick at optimum (YMMV)

You'll find you get masses more product the first run you do this on. :D

[Edit - I let my temperature get right up to 212 F 100C or a little more before I switch off. ]
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still_stirrin
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Re: Hot plate

Post by still_stirrin »

When I started distilling, I would monitor the vapor temperature at the reflux condenser, the vapor temperature at the top of the column (above the packing but below the LM takeoff), the water inlet temperature, and the water outlet temperature with a 4 input digital thermometer. It showed me how my concentric LM/VM still head worked best to produce azeo.

But while learning the operational "signature" of my still, I soon learned how to do the same thing by touch...simply touching the still column, stillhead, vapor takeoff and water outlet line. Once I learned the "quirks" of how to run it optimally, I no longer needed the digital thermometer for a feedback loop.

I adjust the current to the heater elements and adjust the coolant flow, while maintaining the desired product stream through the run. Experience running it makes it easy to operate now...with very good repeatability and product quality control.

So, PiDs are great tools....for fermentation processes and even the mash/lauter tun. I think a good old fashion ammeter is one of the most useful tools when distilling using electricity. That, and experience with your individual still.
ss
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Hilltop
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Re: Hot plate

Post by Hilltop »

Well I take that back, I just finished off a deep skillet, I'm going back to propane till I can find a keg, screw this, it's too slow. This hobby distilling is hard, its so much easier in the swamp with lots of heat and volume.

Two 1500 watt deep skillets, cut down with a metabo to size and put end to end
Is 3000 watts and it's way too slow, when I make this 32 quart stockpot or keg " if I can find one" it will have a stainless water heater element.

I'm having to boost the skillets with my propane soldiering torch to get a low wine stream, " not recommend". On spirit runs just the 3000 watts will do, but mighty slow.

Just my two cents

Hilltop
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Hilltop
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Re: Hot plate

Post by Hilltop »

Speaking of temperature, I installed a temp gauge on an old 5 gallon stovetop still, on low wine runs it doesn't start dripping till 190. The old adage offering the worm as taught is the best solution. If your mash is weak it may not boil till temp reaches 200! The mash is the key to everything, and is the reason us sugar users prefer sugar.

Hey that all grain is fine, but who has that kinda time?
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Let's keep our country free as God has given us.

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Buster
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Re: Hot plate

Post by Buster »

still_stirrin wrote:When I started distilling, I would monitor the vapor temperature at the reflux condenser, the vapor temperature at the top of the column (above the packing but below the LM takeoff), the water inlet temperature, and the water outlet temperature with a 4 input digital thermometer. It showed me how my concentric LM/VM still head worked best to produce azeo.

But while learning the operational "signature" of my still, I soon learned how to do the same thing by touch...simply touching the still column, stillhead, vapor takeoff and water outlet line. Once I learned the "quirks" of how to run it optimally, I no longer needed the digital thermometer for a feedback loop.

I adjust the current to the heater elements and adjust the coolant flow, while maintaining the desired product stream through the run. Experience running it makes it easy to operate now...with very good repeatability and product quality control.

So, PiDs are great tools....for fermentation processes and even the mash/lauter tun. I think a good old fashion ammeter is one of the most useful tools when distilling using electricity. That, and experience with your individual still.
ss
Ok I bow down to you! I bought a gas burner set things up and cranked up the heat controlled the out put to a small stream. I had a higher % output at the start, collected more product and spent way less time to finish. I will run like this till I have the time to build a still with water heater elements. Now to concentrate on recipes and operation of what I have now. I know that practice will help perfect my skills and I will spend more time reading. Thanks for the help!
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Re: Hot plate

Post by CrazyCanadian »

Can I resurrect this post?

I am newbie intending to do small 2.5gal batches. Just made my system - a 1500 watt hot plat on a 2.5 gal SS pot. I ran a cleaning run with 50/50 water and vinegar and it took hours for the liquid to heat to the point of steaming. It never did go to full boil. Never could get steam to shoot out the end of the condenser (without water in it).

I just ran it again with pure water only to gather some data. I ran that SS pot on the kitchen stove and again on the hot plat with 1 gal of pure water. Kitchen - after 40 minutes it was 176 F. On hot plate - after 40 minutes it was 165 F. Didn't put column or even pot lid on either time. The hot plate cycles so often that it is hard to heat up. With a full 2.5 gal in it may never heat up.

Do I need a different hot plate? Its a Nesco solid surface type

Do I need to insulate the SS pot so it retains its heat better? IF so, with what? a blanket? Been thinking of encasing the hot plate and pot in a small box with column protruding through top as a means to bottle up all that heat and keep it on the pot.

I started thinking of wrapping those electrical elements around the pot to increase heat. Those 6' or 12' cords that are plugged in and supposed to keep your pipes from freezing. Anyone ever try those on the sides of your pot?
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Re: Hot plate

Post by fizzix »

Trying to heat up with a cycling hot plate will drive you crazy, uh, CrazyCanadian. Bypass the thermostat in that hotplate and let it run wide open.
Don't use pipe tape heaters. At least the ones I've seen are just 10's of watts at best and will just be in the way.
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Re: Hot plate

Post by CrazyCanadian »

Happen to know if there are instructions on HD on how to modify the hot plate?
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