Controller Build Advice Request

[shadylane]

I'd have both fans blowing in and poke a couple outlet holes in the ends of the box.

[Longhairedcountryboy]

I can assure you guys that I did a super shitty job cutting the openings for the components. It is definitely not air tight to say the least. I don't think additional holes for airflow will be necessary. I'll keep an eye on the temps for the first couple runs.

After 6 days of loud profanities and frustrating work, I finally have a functional controller

[paddy1000111]

Looks good! You've done a tidy job with the cable management!

Only thing to watch is those ammeters. I bought one of the generic cheap 32A ones and the inside was super skimpy, I tested it and it got pretty hot under load. I upgraded to one from a proper manufacturer supplied by an industrial component company. A few dollars more but worth it!
I would also stick a hole in for exhaust air, usually you want a hole that is the same size as the fan for exhaust air. It's quite a bit of CFM those little fans draw and it will pressurise the inside and cause the airflow to stop. You want almost no pressure inside, its all about air mass for cooling.

[Longhairedcountryboy]

Paddy, can you link me to an example of a proper ammeter?

I have a 24 gallon spirit run coming up. It will be a good test for the fans. I'm going to stick a temp probe on the heat sink to monitor the heat at the ssr. If it is getting hot, I'll put some vents in. I have a bag of little round soffit vent covers I could squeeze in on the sides, up by the outlet sockets. Can any of you guys tell me what temps you are seeing at the ssr under load over time?

[WillieP]

LHCB,
This maybe outside of the OP, but...
Just looking at your controller, and not seeing your schematic, I going to try to walk myself through your build.
Line voltage (guessing 220v) comes in on the male 30 amp twist loc connector.
Then passes through the DPST switch (acting as a disconnecting means)
One phase on to the Ammeter, passing through in series.
Continuing to the line side of the SSR.
From the load side of the SSR to the female 30 amp twist loc connector.
(all this connecting to the terminal strips as needed, (can't trace the wiring))
The other phase (or neutral, if 110v) would go directly form the load of the disconnecting switch to the output twist loc.
This all duplicated on the other side.

Anywhere close???

My real question is, why are there two pots? (per side)
One pot I understand, to vary the output of the SSR. I can't figure out the other one.

And if you don't mind, why do you need to vary the power output of two different heating elements.
Not judging, just asking!
I will be running LP, so the electric side of the house is a little foreign to me.
I would see myself running two elements, say 2 - 4000 watt.
Have one element connected to line voltage through a disconnecting means.
The other connected to a controller.
If I needed 8000 watts, I run both full out.
If I needed from 4001 to 8000 watts. I turn ON the fixed voltage element and vary the other element with the controller.
If I needed from 0 to 4000 watts, I turn OFF the fixed voltage element and just vary the element with the controller.

I'm guessing I'm not seeing something simple.

Thanks,
WillieP

Edit: Forgot to say good looking build!

[Oldvine Zin]

[quote="Longhairedcountryboy"]I can assure you guys that I did a super shitty job cutting the openings for the components. It is definitely not air tight to say the least. I don't think additional holes for airflow will be necessary. /quote]

Your build looks pretty good If you are relying on some sloppy fits for your air out take it might sound like a badly tuned pipe organ with that air blowing through some oddly shaped openings.

OVZ

[Oldvine Zin]

My real question is, why are there two pots? (per side)
One pot I understand, to vary the output of the SSR. I can't figure out the other one.

Coarse and fine adjustments, lets you dial into 1/2 amp numbers. Not that it really maters but for repeatability it's great.

OVZ

[Oldvine Zin]

Can any of you guys tell me what temps you are seeing at the ssr under load over time?

I have a thermal switch that turns the cooling fans on at 45 C and one that shuts down the system at 70 C, the fans kick in about a half hour into the run and have not had a 70 C shut down the system.

OVZ

[Longhairedcountryboy]

LHCB,
This maybe outside of the OP, but...
Just looking at your controller, and not seeing your schematic, I going to try to walk myself through your build.
Line voltage (guessing 220v) comes in on the male 30 amp twist loc connector.
Then passes through the DPST switch (acting as a disconnecting means)
One phase on to the Ammeter, passing through in series.
Continuing to the line side of the SSR.
From the load side of the SSR to the female 30 amp twist loc connector.
(all this connecting to the terminal strips as needed, (can't trace the wiring))
The other phase (or neutral, if 110v) would go directly form the load of the disconnecting switch to the output twist loc.
This all duplicated on the other side.

Anywhere close???

Exactly, except for the placement of the ammeter. I stuck that on the output leg of the ssr. I don't know if that is "wrong", but it is how I had it on my last controller and it worked fine. I'm not an electrical guy. I might have it all messed up. If I fry a component, I'll try to figure out what went wrong and correct it, but for now if it isn't broken....

My real question is, why are there two pots? (per side)
One pot I understand, to vary the output of the SSR. I can't figure out the other one.

Oldvine Zin is right. The first I heard of wiring two pots in series was in his controller build thread. I think it was Stillerboy who brought it up. I thought it was a great idea and figured I'd give it a go. The coarse adjustment is 500K and the fine is 50K, so 10 times the resolution on the dial for the 50K. I can make a 3 amp adjustment across the travel distance of the fine pot. I'm not sure if what I'm saying is making sense, I'm just describing it the way I understand it in my brain.

And if you don't mind, why do you need to vary the power output of two different heating elements.

My pot/thumper set up uses 2 beer kegs. I have elements in both kegs.

[paddy1000111]

[quote="Longhairedcountryboy"]Paddy, can you link me to an example of a proper ammeter?/quote]

Don't get me wrong, yours may be fine! I just bought some cheap ones on ebay with no brand name and they were dangerous to be honest. If you buy anything with a brand name and a warranty you are usually fine!

[WillieP]

OVZ and LHCB,
Thanks for the explanation.
I hadn't thought of the course and fine adjustments, makes perfect sense.
I also hadn't thought of an element in a thumper, I didn't know that was a thing. I assumed that thumpers were strictly driven by the heat of the vapor from the boiler. (learn something new everyday, Thanks)

Cheers,
WillieP

LHCB,
If you were curious to whether there is a difference in the reading you get when having your ammeter connected before or after your SSR...
You could set your pots for a specific reading, take note of it, then seeing how your controller is wired with terminal blocks, you could re-route your current to be measured before your SSR and see if the meter gave you a different deflection.
Not that it really matters either way, as you only need a dependable reference to set the amount of power being sent to your elements.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it...

[Longhairedcountryboy]

I also hadn't thought of an element in a thumper, I didn't know that was a thing. I assumed that thumpers were strictly driven by the heat of the vapor from the boiler. (learn something new everyday, Thanks)

It's an experiment. I don't think it is common practice. Having a window into the boiler and thumper gives me a good view of what's happening in the vessels. The boiler comes on line and starts sending vapor to the bottom of the thumper. All of the vapor is condensed by the cooler liquid in the thumper and it fills rapidly, until enough energy has been transferred to bring the thumper on line. Once the thumper is boiling, the volume in it levels off and starts to slowly decline as the run progresses. If I can use the element in the thumper just to pre-heat the contents as the boiler is coming on line, the liquid transfer from boiler to thumper should be minimized, allowing for a bigger charge to begin with. Also, at some point in the run, most or all of the alcohol is depleted from the boiler but there is quite a bit left in the thumper. At this point, it would be more efficient to just fire the thumper, instead of the boiler. I'm not positive the thumper is adding much to stripping runs anyway. If I'm running the total collection down to 30 or 35%, I don't think that the extra plate matters at all. I can run a strip faster with more heat input at the expense of the additional theoretical plate. Of course, this is all with cleared mash or wash. If I'm running cloudy or steaming unstrained grain in the thumper, I will run it without the extra heat input and just use the heat from the boiler.

[shadylane]

Can any of you guys tell me what temps you are seeing at the ssr under load over time?

40 amp SSVR @ 19 amps
After 4 hours the heat sink was 72'C
The two big terminals were 85C
On a side note, I murder alot of SSVR's
Especially if there isn't any heatsink compound

[WillieP]

It's an experiment. I don't think it is common practice. Having a window into the boiler and thumper gives me a good view of what's happening in the vessels. The boiler comes on line and starts sending vapor to the bottom of the thumper. All of the vapor is condensed by the cooler liquid in the thumper and it fills rapidly, until enough energy has been transferred to bring the thumper on line. Once the thumper is boiling, the volume in it levels off and starts to slowly decline as the run progresses. If I can use the element in the thumper just to pre-heat the contents as the boiler is coming on line, the liquid transfer from boiler to thumper should be minimized, allowing for a bigger charge to begin with. Also, at some point in the run, most or all of the alcohol is depleted from the boiler but there is quite a bit left in the thumper. At this point, it would be more efficient to just fire the thumper, instead of the boiler. I'm not positive the thumper is adding much to stripping runs anyway. If I'm running the total collection down to 30 or 35%, I don't think that the extra plate matters at all. I can run a strip faster with more heat input at the expense of the additional theoretical plate. Of course, this is all with cleared mash or wash. If I'm running cloudy or steaming unstrained grain in the thumper, I will run it without the extra heat input and just use the heat from the boiler.

LHCB,
Thanks for walking me through that.
I think the thumper thing is cool, and would jump that direction if I was going to pot still.
It seems like what you are working towards should work out well. I hope it does.
Cheers,
WillieP

[NZBoka701]

Can any of you guys tell me what temps you are seeing at the ssr under load over time?

40 amp SSVR @ 19 amps
After 4 hours the heat sink was 72'C
The two big terminals were 85C
On a side note, I murder alot of SSVR's
Especially if there isn't any heatsink compound

I may have to run mine and take a few temp measurements. Maybe I'll post a few pics of the thermals with the Flir camera. I am using a 5500W SSR from StillDragon with a heatsink, thermal compound and a fan though

[Expat]

I'm completely shocked by the temps you guys are seeing. Normally would think you would only see such a temp with a bad connection or something. I never get more than the slightest sensation of warmth from my heatsink so long as the fan is running.

[NZBoka701]

I'm completely shocked by the temps you guys are seeing. Normally would think you would only see such a temp with a bad connection or something. I never get more than the slightest sensation of warmth from my heatsink so long as the fan is running.

I'm the same, cold air in, cold air out