Electric output not quite enough.

[popcorn2014]

Made the switch to electric. Absolutely thrilled to be able to run inside quietly and descreetlt in comfort.

My issue with hot distillate is no longer an issue. Downside is that it seems to be because I’m short on power.

With my 15.5gal boiler half charged and both 16000 watt elements on full blast it’s not even close to propane stripping speed. My plan was plug both in full blast to get to temp, unplug one and run the other off my MH controller. Wel it looks like the controller was a waste because both plugged straight in is more of the speed of a spirit run.



What gives? Am I out all the money for two elements, cords, and my controller and need to switch to 220?

[Yonder]

Really? In that much of a rush? I started with 110 v 1500 w on a 10 gal pot and was tickled with spending the time with my craft. I recently built a 220v 2500w controller (so I no longer blow out the hot tub and water softener) and the speed astounds me! Relax. Read a book. Enjoy the ride and revel in your ability to produce a quality product thats better n the shop sells.

[popcorn2014]

Really? In that much of a rush? I started with 110 v 1500 w on a 10 gal pot and was tickled with spending the time with my craft. I recently built a 220v 2500w controller (so I no longer blow out the hot tub and water softener) and the speed astounds me! Relax. Read a book. Enjoy the ride and revel in your ability to produce a quality product thats better n the shop sells.

It’s not the time that concerns me. It’s the lack of control range and the ability to push flavors through stripping rum.

[hpby98]

I’m guessing you meant 2 x 1,600 watt elements?

That will be a ton less than your propane.

What’s your column size?

[popcorn2014]

I’m guessing you meant 2 x 1,600 watt elements?

That will be a ton less than your propane.

What’s your column size?

Whoops. Yeah 1600. Well that blows.


2” pot still/reflux column

[NZChris]

Two 16000 watt elements should turn it into a rocket launcher. Check your numbers and your wiring.

[bluefish_dist]

What is you input power limit? A typical dryer outlet will push a 5500w which is usually plenty for a keg still. Less than an hour to warm up and enough power for a 4” column. If you have two elements, a 5500 on 240 and another 5500 on 110 should get you over 6500w.

[popcorn2014]

Fixed it. 1600 watt not 16,000....




Idk power limit. Standard 110 wall outlets. Mile high controller. Two 1,600 watt elements. 2”column. 15.5 gal boiler.



Max charge was 1:15 from room temp to first drip. Run is slower than blackstrap with both going full blast.

[NZChris]

Is the boiler lagged? If not, you might have to think about it. You can lose several hundred Watts on a cold day.

[Yummyrum]

You need to know at what voltage those 1600w elements were designed for .
If it was 220v then when you run them on 110v they are only running at 400 watts .
Two of them would be 800watts which might explain why it seems so painfully slow .

You can measure the element resistance with a multimeter . Then you can calculate the power that it will consume on 110volts but you really need to know what voltage it was designed for . If they were only ment for 110v operation and you hook them up to 220v ..... fizzle fizzle boom

[popcorn2014]

They are designed for 110v.


Not sure what lagged is but it sounds like insulated? I’m indoors where it’s 72f

[Longhairedcountryboy]

They are designed for 110v.


Not sure what lagged is but it sounds like insulated? I’m indoors where it’s 72f

So there is more than a 100 degree difference between inside your still and out. With insulation, my still comes up to temp 20 minutes quicker. I'm inside at 68f ambient.

[popcorn2014]

All what I mentioned is going through a 3/4 ID Liebig output and at max power it takes 70 minutes to strip one gallon.


I don’t mind the time like I say. It’s the lack control that bothers me, especially after paying a pretty penny for it.


Do those figures sound ok for not running too slow for stripping or do I need to reconfigure it to 220?

[still_stirrin]

... at max power it takes 70 minutes to strip one gallon... <— is that the collected low wines volume, or is it the boiler charge volume?

Do those figures sound ok ... or do I need to reconfigure it to 220? <— to collect a gallon of low wines in an hour is OK ... that’s a pint in less than 10 minutes. A little slow, but not bad for 3kW on a stripping run.

But I’m apprehensive of your setup and how you’re running it. Can you share a photo or two of the still and product condenser. Also, the water reservoir you’re using for cooling? Some things in this discussion create more questions than answers. And safety is a key factor here.
ss

[popcorn2014]

That’s a gallon of low wines.


Here it is mocked up.

[still_stirrin]

Looks fine.

So, I’d suggest replacing at least one of your elements with a 220VAC 5.5kW element. It will work on 110VAC with an output power of 1375W. But that power will be distributed over a surface area that is nearly 4 times as great ... an ultra low watt density. That will be much more efficient at transferring the heat into your wash, that is, a much better heat transfer to the liquid you’re trying to boil. As a result, you’ll notice vapor production will be greater and yet, with better control.

If you replace both elements, then you will need one (at least) with a controller. This will give you the control gradient to adjust the vapor production to match your product condenser.

And with your PC, if you stick a flattened strip of copper with a twist into the vapor tube, you’ll get an improvement of knockdown power because of the increase in conducting surface for the vapor to condense on. That will allow you to run more power for a greater vapor production without pushing vapors out of the outlet.

To make this improvement, split a length of pipe lengthwise, flatten it and put a spiral (lengthwise) twist in it. Then push it into your 3/4” ID Liebig vapor tube. It will contact the tube wall and should be held in place by the geometry. It will dramatically improve performance.
ss

[still_stirrin]

Another problem I see with your setup is the coolant lines to/from the Liebig look collapsed. The way they are plumbed makes me suspicious of the flow of coolant, which will affect the “allowable” heat input and the corresponding vapor production. You may need to re-plumb those lines and/or replace the vinyl hoses with reinforced hoses.

You’re getting close...keep up the good work.
ss

[popcorn2014]

Looks fine.

So, I’d suggest replacing at least one of your elements with a 220VAC 5.5kW element. It will work on 110VAC with an output power of 1375W. But that power will be distributed over a surface area that is nearly 4 times as great ... an ultra low watt density. That will be much more efficient at transferring the heat into your wash, that is, a much better heat transfer to the liquid you’re trying to boil. As a result, you’ll notice vapor production will be greater and yet, with better control.

If you replace both elements, then you will need one (at least) with a controller. This will give you the control gradient to adjust the vapor production to match your product condenser.

And with your PC, if you stick a flattened strip of copper with a twist into the vapor tube, you’ll get an improvement of knockdown power because of the increase in conducting surface for the vapor to condense on. That will allow you to run more power for a greater vapor production without pushing vapors out of the outlet.

To make this improvement, split a length of pipe lengthwise, flatten it and put a spiral (lengthwise) twist in it. Then push it into your 3/4” ID Liebig vapor tube. It will contact the tube wall and should be held in place by the geometry. It will dramatically improve performance.
ss

Thank you SS. That’s good advice although unfortunate for me. I just dropped a bunch of money on this, and a 110v controller from MH. I guess if I want to do it right I’ll be eating a few hundred bucks and having to buy the more expensive 220v.


How does this set up sound. One 220v element with 220v controller ran off a 200 extension cord to a different room with a regular 110v element with no controller. Ill plug in both full blast until boil, unplug 110v, and adjust using 220v with controller


As for my lines- They usually start off pinched but once they are just a little warm they pop back open. Although a 90 elbow and rigid hose is on my list.

Thanks.

[Longhairedcountryboy]

Try insulating before you decide to upgrade your elements. You will lose less heat to the atmosphere, which means more power to your boiler. It will increase the volume of vapor getting to your condenser, maybe significantly. Insulate all sides of the boiler including top and bottom and wrap the column. A sleeping bag or old blankets will suffice.

[popcorn2014]

Try insulating before you decide to upgrade your elements. You will lose less heat to the atmosphere, which means more power to your boiler. It will increase the volume of vapor getting to your condenser, maybe significantly. Insulate all sides of the boiler including top and bottom and wrap the column. A sleeping bag or old blankets will suffice.

No danger in wrapping an electric boiler in cotton or wool?

[still_stirrin]

I just dropped a bunch of money on this, and a 110v controller from MH...and having to buy the more expensive 220v. <— you don’t have to buy a 220VAC controller. You can run a 220VAC element on 110VAC. And, you can control it with a 110VAC control and circuit. The 5.5kW 220VAC element run on 110VAC will draw 12 amps, so a typical household circuit breakered at 15 amps will be OK.


How does this set up sound. One 220v element with 220v controller ran off a 200 extension cord to a different room with a regular 110v element with no controller. Ill plug in both full blast until boil, unplug 110v, and adjust using 220v with controller. <— again, you can use you 110VAC controller on a household (110VAC) circuit. But, don’t run both elements from the same household circuit...they’ll snap the breaker.

I have two 4.5kW 220VAC elements that I power with two 110VAC controllers (both elements are controlled independently). But, I pull the power for each from a separate household circuit (both breakered for 15 amps). With the 4.5kW elements on 110VAC, my current draw when on full power is less than 10 amps per circuit.

The advantage of the ULWD elements is increased surface area to transfer heat to the wash. Sure, with full power at the startup, I only get 2.2kW of power into the wash and that requires 90 minutes to start producing. Low wines runs start a little quicker at around 65 to 70 minutes.

But you have a lot of potential with your boiler. Now, you’ve just got to get it setup.
ss

p.s. - insulating the boiler with Reflectex will help you too. I have 2 layers of Reflectex on mine, including the top (dome). It helps keep the heat inside the boiler and reduce loss to the environment (considered “waste heat”).

[Longhairedcountryboy]

No danger in wrapping an electric boiler in cotton or wool?

As long as the elements are submerged, it won't get hotter than the boiling point of the boiler content.

[still_stirrin]

No danger in wrapping an electric boiler in cotton or wool?

As long as the elements are submerged, it won't get hotter than the boiling point of the boiler content.

+1.

And....as long as you don’t heat with propane!

[popcorn2014]

Sorry I’m a bit slow. Electricity has always been something I’m clueless on and have had no desire to learn about like other crafts.


I see what you’re saying now. I literally only need to purchase one 220v element and swap it out and it should do the trick. Everything else remains the same.

Appreciate the advice, I’ll order that and give it a try, along with insulation and a twisty piece. Worse case scenario I’m one element closer to changing the rest if it doesn’t work.

[still_stirrin]

Popcorn....I promise you’ll notice the improvement.
ss

[raketemensch]

You’re getting great advice from SS, as usual. You’d be better off running 110 into a 5500w element than your current setup IMHO anyway. That was my first rig until I was finally able to get a 220 outlet set up in a good spot.

With that setup you’re basically putting 1750w into your boiler at all times, which you don’t really need a controller for.

I just picked up an all-stainless 5500w element on Amazon for $30. I had been using Camco elements, but they rust and aren’t that much cheaper. You kinda don’t want rust in your boiler.

Yeah, it takes a while for that element to get up to a boil, but it does the job and carries you until you can get 220, then shit gets real.

[popcorn2014]

You’re getting great advice from SS, as usual. You’d be better off running 110 into a 5500w element than your current setup IMHO anyway. That was my first rig until I was finally able to get a 220 outlet set up in a good spot.

With that setup you’re basically putting 1750w into your boiler at all times, which you don’t really need a controller for.

I just picked up an all-stainless 5500w element on Amazon for $30. I had been using Camco elements, but they rust and aren’t that much cheaper. You kinda don’t want rust in your boiler.

Yeah, it takes a while for that element to get up to a boil, but it does the job and carries you until you can get 220, then shit gets real.

Why wouldn’t I need a controller? Isn’t the goal of doing this to get up to fast stripping speed, but also requires the need to slow down for spirit runs?

[OtisT]

I’m enjoying this thread. Like electronics 101 class, but in a good way.

Just a little safety warning for you. Those 1500w elements can draw a lot of Amps. Make sure the combined draw plus anything else on that circuit does not exceed the circuit rating. You could run the elements on separate circuits to spread the load. Just saying, be safe.

Otis

[popcorn2014]

I’m enjoying this thread. Like electronics 101 class, but in a good way.

Just a little safety warning for you. Those 1500w elements can draw a lot of Amps. Make sure the combined draw plus anything else on that circuit does not exceed the circuit rating. You could run the elements on separate circuits to spread the load. Just saying, be safe.

Otis

Thanks for the concern. I do run on separate breakers.


I’m tryna figure out how I run a 220 on 110 since it has the twist lock plug. Adapter?

https://milehidistilling.com/product/he ... 5500-watt/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow


It looks like the ULW ones require wiring and fitting instead of just clamping on the 2” flange. And I want no part of that haha....

[NZChris]

So, I’d suggest replacing at least one of your elements with a 220VAC 5.5kW element. It will work on 110VAC with an output power of 1375W. But that power will be distributed over a surface area that is nearly 4 times as great ... an ultra low watt density. That will be much more efficient at transferring the heat into your wash, that is, a much better heat transfer to the liquid you’re trying to boil. As a result, you’ll notice vapor production will be greater and yet, with better control.

I doubt you'll find a textbook that agrees with that.
Replacing 1600W with 1375W will give you 1375W and less heating power, regardless of the size and shape of the elements.