Blichmann BrewCommander question

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Dutchsprings
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Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by Dutchsprings »

Stared down the PID path and reading. My friend got the BrewCommander in 240 and runs a 5500 element. But when using the mashing setting it seems to just power on...power off cycle with minimal change in trying to stabilize.
Tried reading the manual on line but don’t seem to be able to determine if it can be used for distilling.
Any insight would be helpful!
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Yummyrum
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by Yummyrum »

I agree . Its perfect for mashing . Totally the wrong tool for distilling .
Look at a power controller not a temperature controller .
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by Saltbush Bill »

More PID problems.....wrong tool wrong job.
A hour or two of looking through the threads contained in this search link should give you an education as to why.
app.php/googlesearch?cx=012980085383122 ... itesearch=
Mash Madness
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by Mash Madness »

Get this instead, a third the price as well. (I have both) My only complaint on it is the dial turns very easily. Just have to eyeball it closely.

https://www.blichmannengineering.com/po ... oller.html
Dutchsprings
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by Dutchsprings »

Thanks for all the help Everyone!!! The goal is to make rum and bourbon so smearing is what I want and I can see where the PID could reduce that by making cleaner cuts.
Maybe I’ll just make one to have fun with which is the primary reason for this whole endeavor!
Cheers
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by seabass »

No. It won't make cleaner cuts. It just won't work properly. You can drive a screw in with a hammer, but that doesn't mean it's a reasonable thing to do.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Dutchsprings wrote: Tue Jun 09, 2020 5:54 am I can see where the PID could reduce that by making cleaner cuts.
What part of the above posts do you not understand?
A PID is not what you need or want......it will not help with cuts.
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LWTCS
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by LWTCS »

He must have read where claims were made about cleaner cuts. Claims made by someone that has only ever fooled with a PID,,,is what I'm thinking.

Can't make cuts according to a target temp Dutch. RTD with a PID simply does not have that kind of available resolution.

Better off with a power controller and collecting with small jars to isolate the run in 250ml (or so) increments until you learn / train your senses.
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pope
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by pope »

Seems like the PID acronym is coming up a lot these days...
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by NineInchNails »

Dutchsprings, a PID is only good for holding a specific temperature accurately. The problem is ... as ethanol is being taken off, the temperature will always rise. So ask yourself, how can I maintain a constant accurate temp? The answer is by not distilling (taking off ethanol). A PID is good for startup. You can have the boiler heat up to just under the temp ethanol starts to boil and have an alarm go off to let you know. Other than that ... it's no good for distilling. Good for heating water for mashing.

What you want is a power regulator. An electric controller that you can variably increase or decrease wattage to the heating element. Think of it like a dimmer switch on a light. There are many different ways of going about it.

Auber Instruments EZboil DSPR 400 is my preference. It works as a variable power controller as well as a simple PID. It also has many very cool smart functions most would never consider. I prefer this one because it reads temp in 0.1F resolution. It's a controller, but also reads temp like a thermometer so why not? This version does not have auto step mashing functions which is fine with me.

Auber Instruments EZboil DSPR 300 similar to above, it is a variable power regulator as well as a simple PID, cannot read temp in 0.1F resolution, but has more auto step mashing settings that I will likey never use. This also has very cool smart functions.

This page has a chart that lists the major features of all the EZboils so you can choose the one that is most appropriate. These can be used to control both 110V, 240V elements and are extremely versatile. If you use a RTD Sensor Panel Mount connected to your box, you'll need RTD extension wire to connect the panel mount to the EZboil. If you don't, the temp will not read correctly.

Still Dragon DIY Kit or just use their parts with a different box if you want. I've put together a few of these and they work great. Very basic variable controller. It doesn't do anything smart, but you can add bells & whistles like Volt & Amp meter, indicator lights and stuff like that.

Another option is to use an SCR. I've never used these. I've heard good and bad things like, "buy 2 because they're cheap and break". I don't know.
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by Dutchsprings »

Thanks NIN!

Gentlemen
Evidently my inexperience and lack of explanation created a challenge. My intent with the comment of “cleaner” cuts was based off temperature. In other words I could set the pid to a specific temp if I wanted to make a cut based on the head temp. Once all the alcohol had been Captured at a specific temp I could move on to the next desired temp.
Sorry if my inexperienced created an issue. Learning by doing and correlating it to a forum of many opinions and experiences can be overwhelming and confusing.
Thank you all!!!

My questions on the PID was to control the head temp. HOWEVER, I’ve been having success by using the boil function on the equipment provided and controlling the power in order to control the vapor speed in the head. If that makes sense.
Onward and upwards!
Thank you all.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by Saltbush Bill »

The whole point is that you can not control head temp by controlling the boiler temp.
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by LWTCS »

Dutchsprings wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:14 pm Once all the alcohol had been Captured at a specific temp I could move on to the next desired temp.
Hi Dutch,
Do you now understand how that is not an optimal protocol?
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by user604 »

Mash Madness wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:57 am Get this instead, a third the price as well. (I have both) My only complaint on it is the dial turns very easily.

https://www.blichmannengineering.com/po ... oller.html
Thanks for posting, Mash Madness. The Power Controller is on my short list; along with the Auber products NineInchNails linked. But the lack of user feedback on something that is relatively cheap had been a nagging concern.
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by NineInchNails »

user604 wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 9:42 pm
Mash Madness wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:57 am Get this instead, a third the price as well. (I have both) My only complaint on it is the dial turns very easily.

https://www.blichmannengineering.com/po ... oller.html
Thanks for posting, Mash Madness. The Power Controller is on my short list; along with the Auber products NineInchNails linked. But the lack of user feedback on something that is relatively cheap had been a nagging concern.
Do you mean lack of feedback on the Auber units for instance? They work fantastic. After building it, once I first plugged it in, I had no clue how to operate it. I just had to sit down with the instructions and then I understood very quickly how to navigate its functions using the knob which also serves as a button. There's no way around it, you have to read the instructions and you'll see all of the 'smart functions/settings' you never would have imagined existed that makes perfect sense. It's MUCH easier to operate in comparison to their PID controllers. Auber makes fantastic products that are very well thought out. I think it would be cool if Auber updated their PID controllers to have that twist knob/button.

The Auber EZboil I think is by far the best controller that I know of that is available. It works as both a variable controller, a PID and any of their optional automatic functions you want. It's worth every penny.
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by user604 »

I was referring to Blichmann's Power Controller, which at $150 US for a pre-built controller is damn cheap. But the additional info on Auber is appreciated (as I am leaning that way). :)
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by Dutchsprings »

LWTCS wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 4:48 pm
Dutchsprings wrote: Thu Jun 11, 2020 2:14 pm Once all the alcohol had been Captured at a specific temp I could move on to the next desired temp.
Hi Dutch,
Do you now understand how that is not an optimal protocol?
Ok I’ve taken time to go back and reread threads on the use of PIDS and how it relates to my questions. Now understanding the need for a constant heat and the reciprocal increase in vapor temp increase in the head my question is this...then what is the true benefit of the PID?
I will be switching to a controller that I can adjust the element output and monitor by flow rate.
Or am I just off and lost in Siberia???
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LWTCS
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by LWTCS »

So PID will work fine for cooking grains.
Can also be used on a continuous type apparatus because your beer feed is at a steady state.

But with batch distillation it's just not optimal unless you are using as a preheater.
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Dutchsprings
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by Dutchsprings »

Thank you all for being patient with simplistic questions to you I’m sure. But complicated to the beginner.
D
seabass
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by seabass »

Dutchsprings wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:58 pm ...then what is the true benefit of the PID?
They are great for reaching and maintaining a set variable with a given input. It will adjust parameters until it learns to control a variable efficiently. In this case it is temperature. The problem is that you don't get to control head temperature directly by adjusting power. The variable is temperature and the input is power. If you raise power below boiling, you directly increase temperature. That is why they work great for mash temps. Unfortunately once you get to boiling point, you don't get to directly increase temperature by increasing power input.

Look up ethanol boiling point and vapor temp charts. That will show you that at a basic level, temperature in the boiler and in the head are directly caused by pressure and composition, not by power input. Increasing power increases output. So control your boiler based on output.

If you want a proof of concept for this, boil a pot of water. Check temp with it at a low rolling boil then check with it at a violent boil. Same temperature. Vapor temperature will be act the same way unless you increase pressure.
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Re: Blichmann BrewCommander question

Post by thetooth »

I have a BrewCommander that I currently use for a RIMS brewing system. I'd like to reuse it as the power controller for my boiler since I already own it.

That said, has anyone tried using the "Boil" function, which according to the manual simply adjusts the power to the element to control the vigor of the boil? That sounds like it should work.

I'll probably just give it a go sometime soon for a stripping run or something, but I thought I'd ask in case someone else has already tried it.
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