Know of a smaller selector switch ? ? ?

[NineInchNails]

I am looking for a rotary cam change-over selector switch like this one, but the darn thing is too large to fit the small box I intend to use. I know, I know, 'use a bigger box', but I don't want to.

Anyone know of a selector switch that is similar, but smaller or an alternative design of switch?

Here's what I'm doing. Pope, a valuable member here, has inspired me to plan this out. I'm designing putting an Auber EZboil inside of a small enclosure with an indicator light, buzzer, alarm kill switch, a power off switch and lastly a small gauge wire set with panel mount which will be connected to the EZboil's low voltage signal wires which normally connect directly to a SSR. I intend to install these connectors to make extension cords which will plug into this box (signal out) to another very small box which will house a SSR, external heatsink, low voltage indicator light, 240V in & out as well as 120V in & out. A large box is not necessary because these items are quite small.

Basically I'll be making a COMPACT UNIVERSAL CONTROLLER 220V, 120V which will be both variable as well as PID.

I've been trying to figure out how to wire the power box which houses the SSR for 240V and 120V, but I feel as though it would be wise to use a selector switch. I just don't sense it would be as safe as I'd like if I wired both power lines to/through the SSR without a switch. Like for instance what if both power lines were plugged in at the same time somehow. That wouldn't be good. If anyone has any better ideas, I'd love to hear it. I can post a diagram of what I'm talking about if that would help.

[Jack C]

Really not sure about a better switch but have thought about making adapter cords that can be swapped out to allow for the change in voltage. By this I mean a pig tail cord for the in and out cords that has different wiring for 110 and one for 220. This would allow for only one input and output so you can never attempt to connect both on accident. You install the one wired for proper voltage as needed and store the other until needed.

[NineInchNails]

That's certainly another way of going about it. I may need to think outside of the box like that. Thanks for the input!

[Yummyrum]

If you are going yo have seperate in and out for the 110 and 220 then why not just have a second SSR DA — , one does the 110v curcuit , the other does the 220v curcuit . Both of the dc control can be run in parallel .

So now all you need is a low current change over switch to connect the DSPR to either the 110 or 220v as the DSPR itself takes almost no power . You are nit then having the switch the full high current .

[pope]

+1 to what yummy said. Going back to auber (can you tell I'm brand loyal?), they have 2- and 3-position selector switches in a variety of configurations (NO, NC, maintained, temporary, etc) - they measure 1-1/2 x 1-1/8 x 2-3/4 so they're a lot smaller, hopefully it'd fit?? If not, you can probably find way smaller selector switches too once you're down to the low current DC voltage for the control side of the SSR's.

Also this is from support at auber from when I started planning this out: "For DC low voltage control signal (DSPR/PID with SSR output), yes, you can use RTD connector and copper wire for it. 10' distance should be fine, but you need to use low resistance cable. You can use 22AWG or so. We offer 24AWG RTD extension cable, which may not be suitable for 10' distance." "XLR connector also works, for low voltage low current control signal (like SSR trigger signal)." "You can connect negative wire from DSPR to both SSRs negative at same time, then use one switch to change the one feed wire to SSR#1 or #2. So you only need to switch one wire. "

I have been sitting on parts for a while, you're going to beat me to the punch on completing the dual control & power box build!

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Really not sure about a better switch but have thought about making adapter cords that can be swapped out to allow for the change in voltage. By this I mean a pig tail cord for the in and out cords that has different wiring for 110 and one for 220. This would allow for only one input and output so you can never attempt to connect both on accident. You install the one wired for proper voltage as needed and store the other until needed.

This is exactly what I did for my system. My standard power connectors on my control box and heating elements are L14-30, The same as on my generator, breaker panel manual transfer switch, etc. When I need to connect to nema 5-15 (US standard 120v 15a) stuff, I have adapter pigtails that I made for that.

As for the selector switch, you might want to look at Automation Direct. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/home/home

I use them for a lot of stuff when I'm doing factory automation projects.

RHB

[Jack C]

Redwoodhillbilly. That is how my two welders and plasma cutter are, have the dual voltage machines I just swap out the pigtail for the voltage I am using. Seems to work simply.

[NineInchNails]

I have been sitting on parts for a while, you're going to beat me to the punch on completing the dual control & power box build!

No I'm sure I won't. I recently completed an EZboil controller designated for 120V and you mentioned to me the how it could be used to do much more. That just got me thinking ahead. I have all of the parts to consolidate my multiple controllers into one, except for the enclosures, but I don't see myself tearing them all apart for a while. Maybe a winter project. I'm really just thinking ahead at this point.

Thanks for the Auber info. I never would have thought that it requires special wire and such limited length. I would have just used a simple copper wire set.

[NineInchNails]

Really not sure about a better switch but have thought about making adapter cords that can be swapped out to allow for the change in voltage. By this I mean a pig tail cord for the in and out cords that has different wiring for 110 and one for 220. This would allow for only one input and output so you can never attempt to connect both on accident. You install the one wired for proper voltage as needed and store the other until needed.

This is exactly what I did for my system. My standard power connectors on my control box and heating elements are L14-30, The same as on my generator, breaker panel manual transfer switch, etc. When I need to connect to nema 5-15 (US standard 120v 15a) stuff, I have adapter pigtails that I made for that.

As for the selector switch, you might want to look at Automation Direct. https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/home/home

I use them for a lot of stuff when I'm doing factory automation projects.

RHB

Thanks for the link! I saved that one and will search around that site tomorrow.

[pope]

I don't think it needs to be special wire, just know that with longer runs you'll need to compensate for voltage drop. I have 100' of control wire gathering dust in the garage I believe it's 20ga so hopefully for 20-odd-foot lengths it'll be good.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

Here's what I'm doing. Pope, a valuable member here, has inspired me to plan this out. I'm designing putting an Auber EZboil inside of a small enclosure with an indicator light, buzzer, alarm kill switch, a power off switch and lastly a small gauge wire set with panel mount which will be connected to the EZboil's low voltage signal wires which normally connect directly to a SSR. I intend to install these connectors to make extension cords which will plug into this box (signal out) to another very small box which will house a SSR, external heatsink, low voltage indicator light, 240V in & out as well as 120V in & out. A large box is not necessary because these items are quite small.

If you want to go full on industrial with your build, I would suggest not using type K thermocouple connectors. You might want to look at either M8 or M12 connectors. They are screw lock and water resistant. They are the standard in industry for control signals. You will find all sorts at Automation Direct.

As for the control for the SSR, you should be just fine using 22ga cabling for 50ft or more. The EzBoil drives the SSR with 12v at 80 mA and the lower threshold for most SSRs is 4v and 15mA.

If you are talking about the PT-100 RTD, be sure that you are using a 3 or 4 wire version. No voltage drop compensation is needed, it is done by design. i.e. 2 wires are used for excitation and 2 are used to sample the voltage across the RTD. This is called a Kelvin connection.

BTW, always use ferrules or ring/spade connectors on stranded wire that will be under a screw terminal. This is the code. Tinning with solder is not to code. The reason not to use stranded under screw terminals is 2 fold. 1) No inadvertent strand can short to nearby terminals, 2) Stranded wire can deform under load leading to loose and/or inconsistent connections.

RHB

[Sulaiman]

I fully agree with having a reliable mechanical switch to isolate SSRs as they should NEVER be relied on for safety.
SSRs leak current when off, and are prone to failing short circuit.

[Jack C]

Controller

This controller is using a PID and ez boil to run one ssr, but at the same voltage. The little toggle in the middle is the selector. Not sure if that helps at all as it is not exactly what you are doing.

[NineInchNails]

If you want to go full on industrial with your build, I would suggest not using type K thermocouple connectors. You might want to look at either M8 or M12 connectors. They are screw lock and water resistant. They are the standard in industry for control signals. You will find all sorts at Automation Direct.

As for the control for the SSR, you should be just fine using 22ga cabling for 50ft or more. The EzBoil drives the SSR with 12v at 80 mA and the lower threshold for most SSRs is 4v and 15mA.

If you are talking about the PT-100 RTD, be sure that you are using a 3 or 4 wire version. No voltage drop compensation is needed, it is done by design. i.e. 2 wires are used for excitation and 2 are used to sample the voltage across the RTD. This is called a Kelvin connection.

BTW, always use ferrules or ring/spade connectors on stranded wire that will be under a screw terminal. This is the code. Tinning with solder is not to code. The reason not to use stranded under screw terminals is 2 fold. 1) No inadvertent strand can short to nearby terminals, 2) Stranded wire can deform under load leading to loose and/or inconsistent connections.

RHB

Ok, that's good info. I must have misunderstood what Auber said in the previous post. I read it as it required special wire.

I'll certainly look for the appropriate connectors. The only reason I thought about using the thermocouple connector is because it's 2 wires and I have those panel mount connectors on all my controllers, so I could make use of them. I won't though.

I use PT-100 RTD sensors, 3 wire. Well shucks. I didn't use connectors to the terminals for the RTD sensors wires. I assumed that they should be wired directly. I figured since it required special RTD wire ... it wouldn't be appropriate to insert a connector. I haven't had any come loose. I have used those spade connectors in the majority of the connections in my projects, but have slacked lately. I'll definitely keep that in mind.

[NineInchNails]

If you are going yo have seperate in and out for the 110 and 220 then why not just have a second SSR DA — , one does the 110v curcuit , the other does the 220v curcuit . Both of the dc control can be run in parallel .

So now all you need is a low current change over switch to connect the DSPR to either the 110 or 220v as the DSPR itself takes almost no power . You are nit then having the switch the full high current .

You are correct. I just got the idea stuck into my head that I could use the smallest enclosure possible, use one 40A SSR & external heat sink and be smart with the wiring to have a 'do it all', compact single controller with minimal cost/components.

Now I could simply use a slightly larger enclosure so I could use a rotary cam switch and carry on with this idea. I was just hoping to find a slightly smaller rotary cam switch because I found the perfect compact enclosure that can fit in the palm of your hand.

[RedwoodHillBilly]

I use PT-100 RTD sensors, 3 wire. Well shucks. I didn't use connectors to the terminals for the RTD sensors wires. I assumed that they should be wired directly. I figured since it required special RTD wire ...

RTDs don't require special wire. They are just a variable resistor that is controlled by temperature. Any old wire will work. Thermocouples on the other hand are different. They generate a voltage based on the difference in temperature of 2 dissimilar metals.

RHB

[NineInchNails]

I use PT-100 RTD sensors, 3 wire. Well shucks. I didn't use connectors to the terminals for the RTD sensors wires. I assumed that they should be wired directly. I figured since it required special RTD wire ...

RTDs don't require special wire. They are just a variable resistor that is controlled by temperature. Any old wire will work. Thermocouples on the other hand are different. They generate a voltage based on the difference in temperature of 2 dissimilar metals.

RHB

That's good to know. I always thought that's why Auber sells RTD extension wire. I thought it was intended to be run from the controller to the panel mount. Well shoot. They always got me for that wire just because of my assumption. Maybe I assumed this because thermocouples require it.

[NineInchNails]

Since I already built a nice 110V Auber EZboil with bells & whistles and I happen to have an spare 40A SSR with 120V input with heat-sink lying around ... I figured I'll put that in a box, install 240V input & output and a 120V extension cord for the signal wires. Now I can use the EZboil for 120V and 240V purposes for PID or variable.

[pope]

Nice! Pictures when you're done?

[NineInchNails]

Nice! Pictures when you're done?

Will do, but it will be a bit. The wife says I've been spending too much money lately. Shopping for parts and will piece them out over a little time to stay off her radar Just need a decent box, a gland, a 240V recep, a Twist Lock and some cable. Parts prices add up quick.

[pope]

Parts prices add up quick.

Ain't that the truth. I have been coming up on the end of some projects real slow and my wallet is far better for it.

[NineInchNails]

Parts prices add up quick.

Ain't that the truth. I have been coming up on the end of some projects real slow and my wallet is far better for it.

You seem quite knowledgeable. Would you happen to know of a vendor that sells RTD Sensor wire? I currently have this topic up and not may have replied with reliant info. I am interested in making my own RTD Sensors if there is a significant cost savings. I like Auber PT100 RTD Sensors, but quite spendy and relatively short length. I know they also sell RTD wire, but they appear to be selling it twice the cost as other places that sell less ideal wire.

[StillerBoy]

Not sure if this type of cable would be suitable to build sensor cable for your RTD sensor..

I use temperature sensor probe for DS18B20 as sensor.. and have used this cable from Walmart which come in 10m length..
https://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/Waterproof ... 3V22SBHIAC

I have cut the DS18B20 sensor end of the cable and jointed the two cable together to lengthen them to be 10' in length, and work exactly like or give the same temp reading as if it was 2'.. and have done then in 10" length, and giving the same reading..

Mars

[NineInchNails]

Finished up the 240V box to be controlled by a 120V EZboil build. It has 4 rubber feet, but I didn't take pics of the underside.

Only problem is ... it doesn't seem to be working quite right. It seems to be running the element at 1/2 power so I switched over to my other controller and sure enough, twice the power. I went through the EZboil 'Distilling Mode' settings and made sure it was set to 100%. It was. It runs at 1/2 power even on 'Mash Mode'.

I pulled this thing apart 4 times, double checked for loose connections and can't find anything wrong. My tester says there's current in both power lines. Maybe just a bad SSR?

Here's the wiring diagram:

I made the bone head decision to use a 120V indicator light I had lying around. Well it illuminates when connected due to current that bleeds through the SSR from the EZboil's SSR. It is twice as bright when activated so I guess it still serves a purpose. It probably would have been more ideal to use the signal wires to trigger this SSR, but it was more convenient to use the a 120V extension cord.

[Yummyrum]

Sounds to me like your element is connected yo the Nutral not the Red Hot wire , ghat would easily explain why it only runs half power ( well actually it would only be quarter power .

You can easily test the SSR by connecting the SSR input to 12v dc . The element should then get full power.

[NineInchNails]

Sounds to me like your element is connected yo the Nutral not the Red Hot wire , ghat would easily explain why it only runs half power ( well actually it would only be quarter power .

You can easily test the SSR by connecting the SSR input to 12v dc . The element should then get full power.

Thank you Yummyrum! That is exactly what happened. It was driving me crazy, I kept checking the connections, but overlooked by assuming I had the receptacle connected right, but it obviously was not. Thank you very much! Easy fix and works perfectly now.

Bored so I installed a 120V switch to the side of the box so it can turn the signal current off so there's no low load on the element when connecting/disconnecting the power cords.

[NineInchNails]

Ok, I've been playing with this thing for a while and it DOES NOT work as intended. It does appear to work perfectly, but there's way too much current passing through the SSVR in the EZboil and it appears to be activating the SSR in the box allowing some 240V current to pass through into the boiler. Even when I turn the EZboil in 'Distilling Mode' down to 0, I can see that the element is running.

The solution I believe is to run the EZboil's signal to the SSR, not the 120V output to the SSR. Crap. I should have known. Looks like I'm going to replace this SSR with a low voltage input SSR. Once I fix this, it should work as intended and so will the indicator light (once swapped out with a spare 12V light).

[NineInchNails]

Received the SSVR, installed it and it works perfectly now. Since I already had thermocouple connectors and panel mounts, I used them for the signal wire connections from the EZboil to the box. I know, it's not ideal, but I'll replace them in the future with more appropriate connectors. The switch on the side is for the signal current.

[pope]

Nice! Glad that it's working for you finally!

[Tennessee_Spirits]

My solution to avoid using a selector for voltage was to build a controller for each. Adding sockets for different voltages and a switch adds complexity and more parts means a bigger box and I found that not worth it. Another simplification is using breakouts for wiring and avoid sockets in the box.

There are advantage to having two controllers. I use 240 volts for the hot liquor tank and 120 volts for RIMs. I have for distilling a 8 gallon boiler with 240 volt 3500 watt element and a 3 gallon boiler with 120 volts.

Two controllers means not dealing with a 4 pin plug and neutral lead. I have an outlet for 240 and one for 120 right off the distribution panel.

Both of these controllers combine PID and PWM control for flexibility and again no selector switch is required. The SSRs are wired in parallel so that either will close the circuit with no selector switch. Neither of these controllers have an on/off switch. I plug them in when I need them and unplug them when done. It is a much more positive action than a switch that I may forget and dry fire. Knock on wood, no dry fire - yet.