Time for a new controller.

If it plugs in, post it here.

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seabass
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Time for a new controller.

Post by seabass »

I've gone through a few different controllers over the years. I started out with a PID in manual mode that I originally built for homebrew. That was fine for several years. Then I went with a cheap SCR with a beefy heatsink. That has worked well for quite a while. I figured I would just add a multimeter to it at some point for better control. Instead, I decided to just build the controller I want and stop being a cheap ass.

So I went with an auber still controller, some of their temp readouts, and a switch that I'll use for a second always on 5500w element. It's a work in progress, but I think I have all the parts and I started cutting the box today.

The empty spot will be a second double sensor temp display. The large switch controls power to the elements with 0 being off, 1 being controlled, and 2 being an always on element and a controlled element. The small switch is for a recirc/transfer pump. The lit button will be the alarm shutoff. I'll add more pictures as it progresses.

I'm also making some copper thermowells out of 1/4in copper bar. I can't seem to find decent 4mm ID solder in thermowells and copper bar is cheap and easy to solder.
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seabass
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by seabass »

It's coming together. Almost time to route the rats nest. There won't be much free space in here when I'm done.

Finished the thermowells. That was probably the easiest part of this. Just drilled a hole in some copper bar. There's about .01" of clearance, so I'll need a bit of thermal compound to keep it in there.
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NineInchNails

Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by NineInchNails »

Very nice! That's a lot going on in a single box. I know you'll love that Auber EZboil! I love mine and I initially had no desire for the added smart functions, but now ... I really look forward to using them. There are really features built in.

As for thermowells, I make them myself as shown on this page. I bought the brass tube at my local Ace Hardware. I have since replaced the brass with copper tube that is 6mm OD, 4mm ID on Amazon. I really wanted to prefer the copper, but that tube gave me nothing but problems because it was SUCH a snug fit. It was so tight I broke an RTD sensor trying to pull the probe out. I reinstalled the brass tubes so the copper was a waste of money. If you intend to use copper bar, just be sure you use the appropriate drill bit size. I have a lot of drill bit sets and 5/32" appears to be a touch too small and 11/64" is too big. I'd like to see how you go about doing it. Maybe a metric drill bit?
Brew bama
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by Brew bama »

That EZ Boil is the direction I want to go. Hopefully sooner than later.
seabass
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by seabass »

NineInchNails wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:32 pm Very nice! That's a lot going on in a single box. I know you'll love that Auber EZboil! I love mine and I initially had no desire for the added smart functions, but now ... I really look forward to using them. There are really features built in.

As for thermowells, I make them myself as shown on this page. I bought the brass tube at my local Ace Hardware. I have since replaced the brass with copper tube that is 6mm OD, 4mm ID on Amazon. I really wanted to prefer the copper, but that tube gave me nothing but problems because it was SUCH a snug fit. It was so tight I broke an RTD sensor trying to pull the probe out. I reinstalled the brass tubes so the copper was a waste of money. If you intend to use copper bar, just be sure you use the appropriate drill bit size. I have a lot of drill bit sets and 5/32" appears to be a touch too small and 11/64" is too big. I'd like to see how you go about doing it. Maybe a metric drill bit?
It's quite a lot going in. It'll have a fan on either side with filters on the outside as well so I don't have to worry about temps. The wire routing is the hardest part though. The DIN terminal blocks really simplified things though. Also, the inkbird is just a placefiller at the moment. It will eventually be replaced with another double temp sensor readout to monitor coolant outlet temps.

I went with the dsp400. I still haven't decided how I will use the extra features, but I'm sure once I start messing with this thing, I'll find uses.

For the thermowells, I already had 1/4in copper bar leftover from my mash tun false bottom support build. I have a shitty lathe at work that did the job ok. I only think in inches because I'm a machinist in the US. The rtd probes are .157in in diameter. I drilled with a #21 drill bit which is .159. With the slop of the shitty lathe and long hole, it's a .164 hole that's about 1.625 deep. It's loose enough that I don't have to worry about it getting damaged and tight enough that it'll stay in place with a bit of thermal compound. When I'm ready to install them, I'll flare the opened end with a center punch so it doesn't fall through the hole and solder it in.

In theory keeping the air gap around .01" or less should keep the response time quick. I'm making assumptions based on this chart that I randomly found on the internet: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Wel ... _267770935

I'll update with some response times once I get things installed and working
seabass
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by seabass »

Plugged it in and everything works except the alarm! No smoke!
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hypnopooper
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by hypnopooper »

Since I lack the skills of building my own controller at the moment...I bought the completed Auber STL200 controller unit which features the DSPR400 and the SYL-2362. Being new to theses types of controllers, I spend about an hour each time I use them to ensure I know what I'm doing. I'll eventually get the hang of it :)
NineInchNails

Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by NineInchNails »

The EZboil 400 is wonderful. The only thing I didn't like about their smart features is when I fire up my VM still, I let the column come up to temp, I then reduce power to approx 75% and go full reflux for 30 min or so. Well the EZboil's default settings notice the temp, beeps and automatically reduces power 30%. When my VM still is in full reflux, the EZboil beeps often and that gets distracting. The good thing is ... I can go into 'system settings' and set the temp to 205F or whatever I want in order to keep that smart feature out of my way.

I'm building another EZboil right now to replace my PID/variable potentiometer/SSVR box because my 3-way selector switch started to smell. I opened it up and a couple connectors were starting to cook. I'm ditching that complex wiring nightmare to reduce potential problems. It's addicting.

I'd be worried about using thermal compound. I imagine it would create a suction and make it really difficult to pull the sensor out. I've already pulled one of my sensors apart due to a tight fit. With the EZboil, you can dip the probe in boiling water then calibrate the 'offset temp' so no thermal paste would be required and it will always read accurate. Accurate temp doesn't really matter anyway. It's more important that temp readings are repeatable. One day I'll calibrate my offset temp to read accurate.
Last edited by NineInchNails on Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
seabass
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by seabass »

I just soldered in the thermowell in the boiler, so I'll be giving it a try without the thermal grease. Tapping the thermowell in caused a very slight buckling at the entrance that is just tight enough to hold the probe in place. I'm hoping it will respond quickly. I also located my thermowell 2 in above the element level, so I'm hoping with a wash I can use temp to tell if wash volume has dropped too low.

So far I've only used the controller in mash mode and it works wonderfully. I still have a few days until I can use it to strip.

I'm also going to put a thermistor in my SSR heatsink so I can keep an eye on temps. I've got a filtered push pull fan config in there, but the air blows past the heatsink instead of directly through it.
NineInchNails

Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by NineInchNails »

Getting anxious? :lol: I always do when I have a new project.

I monitor temp in the boiler upon startup. Once temps get near 170F I move the probe up to the top of the vapor path. During a run, once temp gets to 205F, the run is done. I never bothered to check the temp in the boiler mid run, but I may do that just so I can get an idea how far along I am.

With 240V, on an external heatsink, I found that my heatsink gets pretty hot. I haven't confirmed what the temp is, but it bothered me. I no place a tiny fan near it and point it at the heatsink, it keeps perfectly cool. I'm sure your heatsink will be perfectly fine with an internal fan. It really doesn't take much air movement to zap the heat from it.
seabass
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by seabass »

Definitely need a small fan on the heatsink. I just ran it at 100% for 15 minutes to calibrate the sensors. It's way too hot. I have plenty of fans lying around. I think the push pull fans are plenty for keeping internal temps ok, but not enough to control the SSR heat without direct airflow.

Definitely a bit anxious... I was hoping it would dissipate enough heat, but not confident in it. Hopefully I can find room for another fan in there somewhere.

I might do the same with sensors during a run. I have 3 sensors and readouts, but can only feed the controller with one. I guess it depends on how much automation I end up wanting to use. I want to see boiler temp, but only need to monitor it during heat up. Everything else I do will be based on head temp. I can setup alarms with the temp monitor though.
NineInchNails

Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by NineInchNails »

Nothing wrong with push/pull fans, but you really shouldn't need two fans. As long as one fan is blowing directly on the heatsink, air will escape through an appropriate exit port all on its own. I like to use an LED illuminated fans so it is clearly evident that it's operating. It looks really cool too especially with a cool looking fan guard and those fans only cost about $6 for an 80mm fan.
seabass
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by seabass »

Ended up just attaching the fan to the heatsink and keeping the dust filter on the air intake. That should take care of that problem. Had to swap around some stuff to make it fit though. I'm wishing I had a bigger box!

I'm using home theater fans, so they aren't super high flow, but are extremely quiet. I've been using loud cheap fans on controllers for so long and I had than lying around. It barely makes any noise. I'll check on the heatsink temps again tomorrow to make sure everything's good.

Next step is to put some handles on the sides for easy positioning.

I really like not having any cords hanging off the box when not in use. Anyone building a box should think about getting a receptacle and locking plugs instead of the long cord sticking out of the box.
seabass
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by seabass »

Repositioning the fan fixed it. Heatsink gets warm but never hot.
batch97
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by batch97 »

That looks like a great controller. By chance did you ever make a wiring diagram you could share? Or more pictures to figure it out? I'm in the process of figuring one out, and like what you've built.
Butch27
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by Butch27 »

NineInchNails wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:32 pm .......I have a lot of drill bit sets and 5/32" appears to be a touch too small and 11/64" is too big. I'd like to see how you go about doing it. Maybe a metric drill bit?
If you have a numbered drill bit set there are a number of choices between 5/32 and 11/64. I did a quick search on the net and came up with this. The first column is the fractional or number size. I am not sure what the empty spots represent. Second column is the decimal size in inches and third column is in millimeters. Numbered sizes #18 through #22 inclusive are all between 5/32 and 11/64 so you have 5 choices.
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Butch27
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by Butch27 »

ttocs
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Re: Time for a new controller.

Post by ttocs »

Welcome to the DSPR400 club! Man I live the controller. Having both a PID and Power Regulator is supper handy. The output with how it rapid fires timed with the AC wave creates super smooth regulated power. The ultimate digital PWM.
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