Arduino Microcontrolled still

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Christ Kennedy
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Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Christ Kennedy »

i've only been distilling for a few months but I created an Arduino controller for my still.
its pretty cool. has several different modes. https://www.codeproject.com/Articles/53 ... Distillery
1. Warm Up
set the heat on high and it will turn off the power to my hot-plate (using a 5V Channel relay) & sound an alarm when the programmed heat in the pot has been reached

2. Head
program a maximum volume to collect in my head collecting jar and the Arduino microcontroller will move the nozzle to the Hearts collecting jar using a Servo-Motor

3. Hearts
- can control the heat in the pot using with the Chanel-relay to gradually increase from a start to end temperature over a pre-programmed time period
- will shift to Tails mode when either a programmed volume has been collected or a given temperature has been reached

4. Tails
- will auto-shut off when a given temperature in the pot has been reached

its been a major headache. lots of problems along the way. things break and need to be fixed. but nevertheless I'm quite pleased with the result.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by still_stirrin »

Christ Kennedy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:38 am Heart
- will shift to Tails mode when either a programmed volume has been collected or a given temperature has been reached <— You forgot, “when %ABV at the spout falls to...X %”
Clever tool. But none of those “methods” are good (repeatable) for making a “hearts cut”. You need to use your senses, not mechanical “targets”.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Christ Kennedy »

thanks for the input

I figure if I use the same recipe all the time I could 'use my senses' to get it right and then program it.
that was the idea. I realize HD is an art more than a science but my technical background pushed me to make this project.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by TwoSheds »

Nice! I saw your post in 'welcome' and hoped you'd write a post about your Arduino project. Sounds like a great project!

Love how you're measuring the volume by weight. I wonder if instead of moving the nozzle to a large hearts collecting jar you could turn a carousel with multiple collection containers on it? Then you could have like 6 containers on a carousel that swap out automatically every 100ml. It could notify you when it swaps to the last one and you could swap out the other 5. (Not that you'd ever leave the still unattended of course.) Then you can blend to your taste.

Also, are you logging everything? It could be enlightening to see what temp/time/proof your stuff is coming off so you can adjust to your taste in the future.

You'll get a lot of opinions here :roll: but it's all technology and having more data and control in addition to using your senses and taste might just take you to the next level, plus it's a damned cool project!!!

Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Christ Kennedy »

right.
the carousel idea is great but the limited space I'm working with makes it difficult.
as for logging : at the moment, no. but there are plenty of options available to the Arduino like a removable 18MByte SanDisk or wifi logs uploaded to a website. could be in the works.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

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Christ Kennedy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:38 am i've only been distilling for a few months
Here's the issue.. after a few runs, and using temperature, you believe that you've develop enough understanding of how a still works..

Will a still is not managed or run by temperature..

So can you explain how a still really works, as to your programming of the controller it is all wrong by using temperature.. temperatures at varies location are only indicators of what the vapors are doing, but the temperature don't tell what the compositions of the vapors are..

The operation of a still, be a pot still or reflux column, is relatively easy, once the vapor behavior is understand, and how to manage them..

If you are really interested in doing it right, check out Odin's method that he developed, and certainly not by temperature..

Mars
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Butch27 »

Very interesting. I bet it would work pretty well for Odin's easy gin.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Birrofilo »

Great work

It is certainly useful for stripping runs.
When doing a stripping run, that is what most people do: take away a certain predefined amount of foreshots, then collect everything until a certain threshold is reached.

It could also be used for making neutral. If you make "conservative" cuts, and accept losing some alcohol that might, at taste, result good, you can actually make a final run without asking any help to your nose (provided you have had some manual runs before so that you know how to place the conservative threshold).

Finally, you could use it for "flavour" products such as whisky and rum but you need an absolute constance in the fermentation, which is very hard to obtain, and in case you don't obtain it, you can do this:

Do several "machine cuts" (maybe a little broader) on several batches.
Then, put the result of the "machine cuts" together, and do a "nose cut" of them, all together.

Overall is a brilliant work.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by TwoSheds »

Oh, the other thought I had: Since you're weighing the output you can measure flow rate, possibly quite accurately. That may be a useful input on setting your power level.

Lots of folks say 'pencil lead' or 'broken stream' or whatever, you can likely pull grams/minute if you want.

This is where it would be nice to have all the data to look at after. Temps, flow rates, abv (which I would think you'd have to check with a floater after the point unless there's a meter...)

Cool stuff!
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Christ Kennedy »

StillerBoy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:42 am Will a still is not managed or run by temperature..

Mars
thank you for your comments.
I realize that boiling points of differing liquids vary with atmospheric pressure and altitude
but these boiling points are constant in that region
you can program what temperature you want, have recorded in previous runs, and expect similar results.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Christ Kennedy »

Birrofilo wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:55 am It is certainly useful for stripping runs.
It could also be used for making neutral. If you make "conservative" cuts, and accept losing some alcohol
Finally, you could use it for "flavour" products such as whisky and rum

Do several "machine cuts" (maybe a little broader) on several batches.
Then, put the result of the "machine cuts" together, and do a "nose cut" of them, all together.
its programmable and versatile so yea .. do a few manually and know what to expect before programming it.
if nothing else, the temperature/volume LCD readouts are useful even if you don't let it switch from phase to phase on its own.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

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Christ Kennedy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 8:47 am you can program what temperature you want, have recorded in previous runs, and expect similar results.
Error of just about everyone / newbee who starts out in this hobby..

They assume it about temperature operation of a still, how erroneous that is..

You can record all the temperature you want, but it doesn't work that way for many reason..

If the abv of the boiler load is not identical with each run, out the window goes your temp reading and so is the output similar..

Mars
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Christ Kennedy »

ok,
thanks for that.
one day I won't be such a newb ... in the meantime, this controller at least helps me see what's going on and I can taste and use my senses to match the tech that's keeping track of it all.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

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Christ Kennedy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:05 am one day I won't be such a newb ... in the meantime, this controller at least helps me see what's going on and I can taste and use my senses to match the tech that's keeping track of it all.
Based on the statement, it is still not registering, that you will never match the temperature of the vapors, the flavor profile, with the tech reading given out by the sensors..

Unfortunately.. It just doesn't work that way..

But I guess, spending time learning it does not work that by way, it part of the journey for some..

Hopefully one day it will register, otherwise, well one will still be a the learning stage instead of mastering the skills required..

Mars
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Windy City »

What Mars is trying to tell you is that you do not run a still via temperatures as they are constantly changing.
Rather you run a still by power input and product output.
This has been talked about ad nauseam but keeps coming up.
Check out this link about the "Magic Boiling Myth" and the article by Zymurgy Bob linked in the first post.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... =1&t=59221

It has helped light a bulb over many a newbs head.
Hope it helps
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Christ Kennedy »

Windy City wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:44 am Check out this link about the "Magic Boiling Myth" and the article by Zymurgy Bob linked in the first post.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... =1&t=59221
great article,
yea, I had that idea of keeping the temperature above the boiling point of methane and below that of ethanol but nothing happened.
that article does clear things up.
but I still like to watch the blinky LEDs and flashy screen with buttons and buzzer.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by shadylane »

Christ Kennedy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:38 am
The Arduino microcontroller will move the nozzle to the Hearts collecting jar using a Servo-Motor
I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Yummyrum »

shadylane wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:19 pm
Christ Kennedy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:38 am
The Arduino microcontroller will move the nozzle to the Hearts collecting jar using a Servo-Motor
I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
Me too , it’s been buzzing around my head for a while .
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Mr Sippy »

Low tech approach also. Maritimer was intellectually curious and all about hi-tech but he seemed to favor Riku's method.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 6#p7215352
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Setsumi »

well you have been told and showed that temprature does not play a role in distilation.

you can measure volume. can you measure collection volume speed? that should get you close to vapour speed and if you could control power input based on collection volume speed it should fit into common distillation theory/knowledge. that is, you will not be hampered by temps that will constantly rise during the run.

but in the end cuts will still be smell and taste, or that is how i see it.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by StillerBoy »

Setsumi wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:45 am you can measure volume. that should get you close to vapour speed and if you could control power input based on collection volume speed it should fit into common distillation theory/knowledge. that is, you will not be hampered by temps that will constantly rise during the run.

but in the end cuts will still be smell and taste, or that is how i see it.
That where OP needs to focus on, and not the temperature..

But in the end, for our small overall runs, the system is not needed.. two temp probes (indicators) located at the right location, plus an attentive ear to what the column is saying, is all that needed to run a properly setup reflux unit..

Yet having stated such, you can install all the gadgets one wants to used, it will not be of any help if the operator does not have an understanding of what vapor behaviors are, and what vapor management is required to be done at the varies stages of the process..

Mars
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Birrofilo »

shadylane wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:19 pm
Christ Kennedy wrote: Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:38 am
The Arduino microcontroller will move the nozzle to the Hearts collecting jar using a Servo-Motor
I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
The original poster posted a video which I have looked into. The servomotor exists and works.

The original poster seems to have the "basic and wrong" ideas about distillation, as it is also obvious in the video.
Yet, what he realized is pure beauty.

A forum is a place where one learns from each other. @Christ Kennedy will have to learn the real physics behind distillation. Those of us who are interested in automating parts of the process have a lot to learn from him.

Another hint for the original poster: high ABV alcohol and plastic is not good for your health. Some zealots in this forum will shout "Crucifige!" as soon as they see your video.
Now, that doesn't really regard the OP because, we know, he's making disinfectant and engine polish :ebiggrin: but in case he wants to insert his engine polish in his regular diet, he should rather eliminate all plastic which comes in contact with high ABV spirit.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Setsumi »

StillerBoy wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:23 am
Setsumi wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 7:45 am you can measure volume. that should get you close to vapour speed and if you could control power input based on collection volume speed it should fit into common distillation theory/knowledge. that is, you will not be hampered by temps that will constantly rise during the run.

but in the end cuts will still be smell and taste, or that is how i see it.
That where OP needs to focus on, and not the temperature..

But in the end, for our small overall runs, the system is not needed.. two temp probes (indicators) located at the right location, plus an attentive ear to what the column is saying, is all that needed to run a properly setup reflux unit..

Yet having stated such, you can install all the gadgets one wants to used, it will not be of any help if the operator does not have an understanding of what vapor behaviors are, and what vapor management is required to be done at the varies stages of the process..

Mars
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by StillerBoy »

Birrofilo wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:39 am Those of us who are interested in automating parts of the process have a lot to learn from him.
Automization at the hobby level is really not an ideal idea, due in large part to the short run..

But semi automization is very possible and useful, as that's how my units all run at, and not difficult to setup..

This thread show one of my unit setup for a run..
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 4#p7592584

Mars
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by SomethingObscure »

Since starting this hobby I've been thinking about how I can combine it with my love of fiddling with electronic and amateur programming.

I've day dreamed of using an Arduino or Pi to help me take notes, measure take off speed / rate and various temperatures, I was even thinking about how I could measure liquids density and how that might equate to abv.

This naturally led me to think about using these measurements and PID to maintain a steady output stream and coolant temp / output temp by adjusting the power input and coolant flow.

Well day dreaming aside maybe one day I'll buy some micro load cells and start build something that might at least log some data for me.

I would love to hear how you get on. Take note of what the oletimers say and crack on..

If you are interested, this is a great and recent thread on an electronic still controller.

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 0Contoller

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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Christ Kennedy »

Birrofilo wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:39 am The original poster seems to have the "basic and wrong" ideas about distillation, as it is also obvious in the video.
Yet, what he realized is pure beauty.
still working on that ... and thanks
Birrofilo wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 8:39 am Another hint for the original poster: high ABV alcohol and plastic is not good for your health. Some zealots in this forum will shout "Crucifige!" as soon as they see your video.
et ab eis curram ...
the nozzle and drip catcher may be difficult to replace but I will definitely change my collection jar.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Christ Kennedy »

SomethingObscure wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:18 am I've day dreamed of using an Arduino or Pi to help me take notes, measure take off speed / rate and various temperatures, I was even thinking about how I could measure liquids density and how that might equate to abv.

This naturally led me to think about using these measurements and PID to maintain a steady output stream and coolant temp / output temp by adjusting the power input and coolant flow.
yea, I'm catching on to the Bunkness of the Boiler Theory. combined liquids don't boil at their own independent boiling points but some average between them (essentially) so Temp Controls are no good.

I had tried to use a 'Rain sensor' under the nozzle to count drops but the sensor 'stays lit' between drops and can only tell you when the first drop fell and will eventually notice the sensor dried up hours after you've cleaned up shop. so that was no good.

as many comments have stated : note-taking. volume/temp/time and draw charts when you're done.
- that's doable - but the Arduino (unassisted by an internet connection) only counts milliseconds since it came to life (power on)
so WiFi seems to be the way to go. have it get the time on-line and log everything it records to a website which an external app can read on your desktop analyse and draw pretty graphs for. that would be the next step.

thank you all for your comments
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by Yummyrum »

Christ Kennedy wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 1:12 am so WiFi seems to be the way to go. have it get the time on-line and log everything it records to a website which an external app can read on your desktop analyse and draw pretty graphs for. that would be the next step.
Sounds pretty cool way to do it . I’ll add the mandatory comment that your computer is doing the logging while you are watching the still . None of this remote monitoring of still via Wifi . :thumbdown: ... but you know this . :thumbup:

Thanks for putting up links to your Code. That is often the missing link omitted in posts like this and quite often the most interesting for followers of the topic .

Keep up the good work .
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by LWTCS »

The caveat to all of the above discussion is that target temps are indeed very useful for continuous distillation.

Target temps are fine for cooling media too. The challenge for hobbyists and boutique pros is being able to provide uniformly consistent cooling media temps for the duration of the run however. It's a huge resource suck.
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Re: Arduino Microcontrolled still

Post by ThomasBrewer »

Bumping up an old topic since I have a tangentially related question. I'd like to get real-time data of condensate output, both for logging purposes and also possibly as a future input to a control loop. Does anyone know of a good flow meter with an electronic sensor that wouldn't contaminate product. I'm thinking PTFE impeller with a hall-effect sensor?

Thank!
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