PID heat controller

[JOBRLA]

I first posted this in the wrong room.....

Afternoon all, has anyone used the INKBIRD IPB-16S heat and pump controller? It is good up to 1800watts. Which is good for my commercial electric burner. Only bad thing I see is the temp prob is not water/steam proof. Would like to find a replacement probe to be able to put in the steam column. They go for about $120 on amazon.

Any knowledge of this devise would be much appreciated.

Jody

[jonnys_spirit]

I recommend that you do a search for PID on the forum using the Google HD search function and consider this article ->
http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/Re ... gMyth.html

Cheers!
-j

[Stonecutter]

I first posted this in the wrong room.....

Afternoon all, has anyone used the INKBIRD IPB-16S heat and pump controller? It is good up to 1800watts. Which is good for my commercial electric burner. Only bad thing I see is the temp prob is not water/steam proof. Would like to find a replacement probe to be able to put in the steam column. They go for about $120 on amazon.

Any knowledge of this devise would be much appreciated.

Jody

Oh Boy…
You have no idea what kind of shit storm you just opened up for yourself.
:Edit:
I assume by “steam column” you’re referring to your still column?

[JOBRLA]

Auto correct "Still to Steam"

[Saltbush Bill]

Just to clarify things ......do you intend to try and run your still by hooking the pid and a temp probe to your heating element / power supply.?

[NZChris]

A PID isn't a heat controller. It's a temperature controller. You need to understand the difference before you spend your money.

[shadylane]

A PID isn't a heat controller. It's a temperature controller. You need to understand the difference before you spend your money.

+1
Power control is what we need for distilling. Just like on a cookstove.
PID is great, If you need a temp controller that does the same job repeatedly and can learn from it's mistakes.

[Chucker]

You don’t need anything more sophisticated than a simple SCR. Add an amp meter if you actually want to know the output. Turn it up to get to boil and then down to keep it simmering. Inexpensive, effective, all you need.

[miletwo]

Jesse did a great video explaining why it's not a good idea if you're the "watch" vs. "read" type.

[JOBRLA]

I guess I need to explain more, I am new at this and trying to decipher what I hear, what I read, and what seems to work. I have made a few batches but use a gas burner to make the mash and distill. It's hard to regulate the temp (at least for me) when trying to get water to 145 to add corn, than bring it down to add malt/barley then get it to 95 to pitch yeast. I also like to keep a temp reading in my still column and in the pot when distilling to keep an eye on temps and maintain them. The reason for the PID is I bought a commercial electric burner that I would like to control using the PID to turn on and off the element to keep a constant temp, either for mash or distilling. If there is an easier and more efficient way, I'm all ears...

[LWTCS]

Dunno why Jessie has such a hard time with acknowledgeing an empirically verifiable reality?
Why does one need a safe space for that?

[Setsumi]

I guess I need to explain more, I am new at this and trying to decipher what I hear, what I read, and what seems to work. I have made a few batches but use a gas burner to make the mash and distill. It's hard to regulate the temp (at least for me) when trying to get water to 145 to add corn, than bring it down to add malt/barley then get it to 95 to pitch yeast. I also like to keep a temp reading in my still column and in the pot when distilling to keep an eye on temps and maintain them. The reason for the PID is I bought a commercial electric burner that I would like to control using the PID to turn on and off the element to keep a constant temp, either for mash or distilling. If there is an easier and more efficient way, I'm all ears...

well you see you have 2 processes to control. for mashing you need temprature control. for distilling you need to control vapour speed. you cannot control vapour speed with temprature. you need to control your boiling intensity, that you do by controlling your energy inlput. on propane it is the flame height on electric it is the amps.

as suggested, get a SCR. they are even super for mashing on electric.

but my guess is you will continue with the temp control, good luck.

[Sporacle]

I guess I need to explain more, I am new at this and trying to decipher what I hear, what I read, and what seems to work. I have made a few batches but use a gas burner to make the mash and distill. It's hard to regulate the temp (at least for me) when trying to get water to 145 to add corn, than bring it down to add malt/barley then get it to 95 to pitch yeast. I also like to keep a temp reading in my still column and in the pot when distilling to keep an eye on temps and maintain them. The reason for the PID is I bought a commercial electric burner that I would like to control using the PID to turn on and off the element to keep a constant temp, either for mash or distilling. If there is an easier and more efficient way, I'm all ears...

For that purpose of controlling the commercial electric burner for running your still you need a SCR, I will openly admit I got "Georged" before I found salvation in HD.
I have attempted to run my still with a PID and it produced a product, I now run my still with a SCR and it is so much better in terms of stability and controllability. Dont go near a PID for the purpose of trying to control a still duing distillation.
If you have a PID already and need a use for it mine does a great job of regulating the temperature in my fermentors.
All my mashing is done on gas and I find I can regulate the temps pretty well as the mashes hold heat reasonably well when shut off and insulated or transferred to a esky or ice box.
A simple thermometer will do the job of keeping track of column temps. Boiler temps is a whole other thing, Im new and understand the theory but someone will be able to better explain that.
In brief use a SCR to control the still during distillation
.

[LWTCS]

Can't control a target boiler temp because while rendering out product, the boiling point will constantly change.

The temps will be what they will be at any given moment.

For our (practical) purposes, no amount of heat input can dictate the boiling point of the kettle charge.

[Yummyrum]

PID will be perfect for heating your strike water and holding mashing temps but absolutely useless for running your still .

look at Auberens Eziboil . They have a controller that uses a PID controller for mashing and can be switched to manual Power control mode for Distilling .

[Stonecutter]

I guess I need to explain more, I am new at this and trying to decipher what I hear, what I read, and what seems to work. I have made a few batches but use a gas burner to make the mash and distill. It's hard to regulate the temp (at least for me) when trying to get water to 145 to add corn, than bring it down to add malt/barley then get it to 95 to pitch yeast. I also like to keep a temp reading in my still column and in the pot when distilling to keep an eye on temps and maintain them. The reason for the PID is I bought a commercial electric burner that I would like to control using the PID to turn on and off the element to keep a constant temp, either for mash or distilling. If there is an easier and more efficient way, I'm all ears...

PID for cooking =
PID for Running a still =
Instead of a PID, a “potentiometer” is a great way to control your still. There are tons of posts within the HD to help develop and improve your own custom circuitry in order to get the most out of your electric controller. I have used a PID in the past and found it very efficient at maintaining temperatures at and above 190F in my still. Unfortunately, most (not all) of the ethanol “stuffs” you’re trying to get out and keep are being vaporized at lower temperatures. The constant cycling of the PID controlled element can really smear all of your cuts together and ultimately makes for a sub-par “controller”. After all, cuts and separation is all about control. There are a million ways to skin a cat. Within this forum this topic about PID’s comes up A LOT and it gets frustrating for the members to have to continually explain why it’s not the best method. If you haven’t already..I suggest you search PID’s and “controllers” within in the HD and you will find the information that you need to make an educated decision on how you want to control your still.

[NZChris]

I also like to keep a temp reading in my still column and in the pot when distilling to keep an eye on temps and maintain them.

By all means, keep records of temperatures for future reference, but trying to maintain a temperature during a distillation is clear evidence that you haven't really grasped what happens to the boiling point during a distillation and why you shouldn't try to control a temperature anywhere in a pot still.

BTW, my most used pot stills don't have thermometers anywhere.

[LWTCS]

Yeah the "maintain" word when referring to pot temps is the dead give away.
Not to worry. He'll get it soon enough.

[Stonecutter]

PID will be perfect for heating your strike water and holding mashing temps but absolutely useless for running your still .

look at Auberens Eziboil . They have a controller that uses a PID controller for mashing and can be switched to manual Power control mode for Distilling .

Looks like we had the same idea with the thumbs up routine Yummyrum Haha! Oops sorry man

[JOBRLA]

Thank you all for the well informed information. I love this site, it's like a bunch of feeding sharks to the poor soul like me that asks and throws a stupid question/blood into the tank. It becomes feeding time on the poor sap, HA HA. Never any a fence taken on this end. Y'all knowledge keeps me going and making money mistakes. I'm going to ditch the PID thing for now. May still and try and use the electric base burner. The gas burner I have is a high pressure/ turbo burner that can't be turned down very low without going out. Gonna need a low pressure one if I continue to use. Thanks again all for the info, understanding the whole temp ver heat thing.

[Rrmuf]

I first posted this in the wrong room.....

Afternoon all, has anyone used the INKBIRD IPB-16S heat and pump controller? It is good up to 1800watts. Which is good for my commercial electric burner. Only bad thing I see is the temp prob is not water/steam proof. Would like to find a replacement probe to be able to put in the steam column. They go for about $120 on amazon.

Any knowledge of this devise would be much appreciated.

Jody

Oh Boy…
You have no idea what kind of shit storm you just opened up for yourself.
:Edit:
I assume by “steam column” you’re referring to your still column?

+1 LOL: My thoughts exactly! Buckle up!

[LWTCS]

Sharks? Really?
I thought everyone kept it professional, direct and polite.

I didn't get the buckle up thing either?
Not a pile on. But rather multiple ways to explain why PID is not at all optimal for distilling.

Each member's contribution to the subject matter should help clarify any confusion about the science behind heat input, pressure, temp gradient etc. No?

[JOBRLA]

Was just joking LCTWS, if ya read all my post would see that I thanked all for their input. I was making fun of me and my stupid question which lead to all of the well knowledge types to correct me. I dont take it as a "pile on" I take it as respectful people giving their respectful opinion and knowledge for me to learn, and I do appreciate it.

Haha got it.

[jonnys_spirit]

Was just joking LCTWS, if ya read all my post would see that I thanked all for their input. I was making fun of me and my stupid question which lead to all of the well knowledge types to correct me. I dont take it as a "pile on" I take it as respectful people giving their respectful opinion and knowledge for me to learn, and I do appreciate it.

Thanks again all for the info, understanding the whole temp ver heat thing.

Commended for taking it all in stride!

Cheers,
j

[Setsumi]

Thank you all for the well informed information. I love this site, it's like a bunch of feeding sharks to the poor soul like me that asks and throws a stupid question/blood into the tank. It becomes feeding time on the poor sap, HA HA. Never any a fence taken on this end. Y'all knowledge keeps me going and making money mistakes. I'm going to ditch the PID thing for now. May still and try and use the electric base burner. The gas burner I have is a high pressure/ turbo burner that can't be turned down very low without going out. Gonna need a low pressure one if I continue to use. Thanks again all for the info, understanding the whole temp ver heat thing.

there is no reason not to use electric. the answers were not to use PID with electric to run your still. many posts refered to SCR, it is a simple device that regulates your amps/voltage to your electric heater. if you use an external hotplate type of heater you may have to do some mods.

[Demy]

The reason why all the members tell you that pid is not the right tool is because they are experienced and avoid mistakes and confusion. The pid is fine for the mash where the goal is the temperature, in the distillation instead it is the regulation of the power of the heat. You can build a good tool yourself for a small fee, some info can be found here on the forum.

[Stonecutter]

The reason why all the members tell you that pid is not the right tool is because they are experienced and avoid mistakes and confusion.

Let’s not go too far. I’m my own worst enemy most of the time. IMO the thing that’s important, and I’m pretty sure JOBRLA sees this, is that if ya ain’t learning anything along the way you ain’t doing it right. Even the big global distillers are constantly refining their means and methods. We gotta be here to support each other. Even if you need a belt or club to get the point across.

[Rrmuf]

Likewise, it was just kidding about the "buckle up" as I do find that it is a question that comes up often, among new people, who heard of the (misguided) idea somewhere else and immediately incur a course correction here....with passion.

Having said that, IMHO the advice here on PIDs and on pretty much all questions I've had an interest in, has been spot on. I was initially attracted to the idea because it SEEMS so foolproof, and I am very thankful I didn't go that route. It would have short-circuited alot of learnings.

[Cabron99]

PID will be perfect for heating your strike water and holding mashing temps but absolutely useless for running your still .

look at Auberens Eziboil . They have a controller that uses a PID controller for mashing and can be switched to manual Power control mode for Distilling .

This is great advice. Works like a dream!