Propane burner for 50L keg?

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sjavierdu
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Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by sjavierdu »

Good morning,
I would like to ask you about the appropriate burner in Kcal or btu for a 50L Keg(15.5 gal), which will feed a copper pot still and subsequent Liebig type condenser?
I can't have many of the brands discussed here in my country. If I imported a burner, its metal support could not and I saw that they also talk about the difficulty of height low/high flame.

In my home brewhouse, I have 18,000 kcal (aprox 70.000 btu) for 50L keg, but it is low and the stages were long for me.
cheers
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by The Baker »

Hi,
I made a support from a car-tyre rim.
And I am not a skilful metal-worker.
Could be a possibility if ready-made supports are not readily available.

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RC Al
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by RC Al »

What supply of propane do you have?
Your current burner will be maxing out the vapour output capacity of a 20lb/9kg bottle already.
If you have town supply or larger bottle(s) go as big as you like.
I have a China copy of the bayou bg14. The stand easily supported 150kg when I tested it.

Edit, on the current burner make sure the orifice after your valve is correctly sized too.
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Yummyrum »

Damn thats a clean burn Arsey .

Are you using a HP reg on that setup ? .

I’m keen for more info , been using a 3 ring Bunnings Banjo on HP but just can’t get enough air i to it . Flame burns yellow and always keg has a sooty butt .
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Something like this is more than sufficient. You can buy them with 2, 3, or 4 rings.
My choice for a 50L keg boiler would be a 3 ringer, but two will get the job done.....3 will just make for quicker heat up times.
Once the still is up to operating temp you will only need to use one of the smaller rings.
burner 2.jpeg
If you feel at some time in the future that you need even more heat then buy an adjustable pressure regulator similar to this one.
These are rated at 1-15 PSI......they will give you more heat than you are ever likely to need and will give very precise flame / heat adjustment.
adjustable reg.png
Do not be tempted to buy the one with a higher PSI rating "15-25 PSI ...you will regret it......I leaned that the hard way.....you could use one of those things to heat a hot air balloon.
From reading about others experiences with some of the higher performance burners such as the beer fellas use I think that those types of burners are overkill and finicky to adjust. From my understanding they are destined to put out a lot of heat fast but not to run super slowly/ low.
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RC Al
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by RC Al »

The 2,3,4 ring burners as pictured have an air adjuster at the valve, if thats maxed out then your only recourse is to force feed it with some sort of air box and controlled fan set up. Ive seen a few Utube vids of force fed ones and concluded that its unnecessary for my particular burner.

With mine as pressure is increased I have to throttle the air back, -I think- the greater gas velocity draws more air in naturally :?:

My regulator is one of these https://www.auscrown.com.au/products/pr ... tor-lf103p also marketed as a "Rambo" regulator 0-30 psi, I have added an gauge to make adjustments meaningful, also if the bottles are starting to empty the pressure reading drops off (from BOC of all places, ppl in oz) - reads in kpa but thats fine.

I can run mine down low at 3-4psi and its fine for even a 20l wash through the bubbler. "They" say that higher pressure is more efficient, but as said not really easy to manage if your trying to go slow.

The important bit is the orifice at the end of the valve, my single one that came with the original 4 psi reg is 1mm which is good for 120k btu at 30psi (+/-). I've got 2x 9kg bottles hooked up to use that. This burner is advertised at 200k btu, but i would have to drill my orifice out to 1.2mm and add a third bottle to get to 180k. A 45kg bottle is rated to give off about this much gas, but not an easy thing to achieve (in oz) if your home hasnt already got one connected that you can borrow.

If your trying to measure an orifice the easiest way is to find a friend with a set of engineering "Number" drills.
https://www.custompartnet.com/drill-size-chart
And a BTU calc I stole from somewhere
BTU_Calculator.xls
(19.5 KiB) Downloaded 54 times
Yummy, possibly some dished air bleeds that will let more air in may work, but i suspect you may have to drop your orifice size to get it working good

PPPPPS OP do you have a shroud on your brewhouse boiler - very much speeds things up
Last edited by RC Al on Thu May 12, 2022 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Yummyrum wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 4:45 am Flame burns yellow and always keg has a sooty butt .
Seems you have always had a problem with that one Yummy ...Ive got about 4 of them in different sizes..all run a nice blue flame
0FC49472-678B-48C5-946A-F3CFEA5BB034.jpeg
0FC49472-678B-48C5-946A-F3CFEA5BB034.jpeg (29.56 KiB) Viewed 2249 times
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Yummyrum »

It’s my second Salty , first would keep backfiring and flames would shoot out casting inlet . Scared living daylights out of me .
Second one doesn’t do that , but it runs yellow flame if I crank the gas .
Maybe I’m just asking too much if this burner thats meant to be run on a standard regulator .

Are yours from Bunnings Salty ?
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Yummyrum »

RC al , thanks for the reply .
I’ve spun the air intake wheels to no avail . But looking at the flame in that video , yes I can get it blue at that level of flame , it’s when I start cranking the gas and flames start coming uo the sides if the keg that I have the yellow . Mostly only when I strip and want to push it hard .
On the plated still , the small blue flames are happy days .

Thinking about getting outvthe 4” reflux still again .For that I need big heat , big flame .
Maybe that burner you have is better than a Bunno’s at higher gas .
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

The big four ringer that I usually use came from a camping store.....its nothing special.....Chinese made I suspect.......all others have come second hand and cheap from garage sales.
4 ring burner adjust reg..jpg
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by goose eye »

Use to be green is low pressure red is high .
Ole boys always used red course they was using it to scald hogs two

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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Archee72 »

Yummyrum wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 1:40 am It’s my second Salty , first would keep backfiring and flames would shoot out casting inlet . Scared living daylights out of me .
Second one doesn’t do that , but it runs yellow flame if I crank the gas .
Maybe I’m just asking too much if this burner thats meant to be run on a standard regulator .

Are yours from Bunnings Salty ?
Maybe not enough O2 getting to flame Yummy?
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Yummyrum »

I’m sure thats it Archee .

I just don’t see why . Maybe I don’t understand how these things work . My understanding is that the gas squirts into the casting and I’m guessing its a venturii thing that sucks in air . The more gas , the more air is sucked in . The air adjustment wheel sets the ratio .

But it seems that past a certain amount of gas , even with the air control wheel full open , still not enough air gets sucked in .

So is it a design limitation ? Does the hole size in the injector need to be increased or something to allow better operation when using a HP regulator on a bango burner ?
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by RC Al »

Is there any more restrictions or holes past the adjuster, sorry, never looked at one and cant find a pic.

Thats why I was suggesting the fan fed air box
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Setsumi »

Myself never had good experience with the ring burner. But this setup in South Africa delivered for me. I am away from propane for now but would gladly run this any day. The regulater is a must thiugh and you need to live with the fact that you loose energy because you heat the outside.
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Archee72 »

Yummyrum wrote: Fri May 13, 2022 9:14 pm I’m sure thats it Archee .

I just don’t see why . Maybe I don’t understand how these things work . My understanding is that the gas squirts into the casting and I’m guessing its a venturii thing that sucks in air . The more gas , the more air is sucked in . The air adjustment wheel sets the ratio .

But it seems that past a certain amount of gas , even with the air control wheel full open , still not enough air gets sucked in .

So is it a design limitation ? Does the hole size in the injector need to be increased or something to allow better operation when using a HP regulator on a bango burner ?
Have you always used the same regulator? I know I do with my barby, as you probably do and just keep changing out the bottle. I’m guessing Salty isn’t too far from you, you could borrow his ring burner and go by process of elimination?
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Yummyrum »

Burner works fine on a Standard regulator . Just sucks on my HP reg .
Not a bad idea to try it on Saltys next time I’m up that way if he doesn’t mind . …. Or his reg on mine .
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by goose eye »

LP burns dirty. A cob web can cause you aggregation.
Ole hp burner for bulk barns had a pice of screen wire in them that you had to keep a eye on.
Gotta clean your burners

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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by LWTCS »

goose eye wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 8:18 am LP burns dirty. A cob web can cause you aggregation.
Ole hp burner for bulk barns had a pice of screen wire in them that you had to keep a eye on.
Gotta clean your burners

So I'm tole
Couple things I'm not clear on? Especially since there are good fabricators here.
1. Why folks aren't using a vented shroud? Or experimenting with pizza oven technology?
2. Why no one that runs a flame has ever replicated Ozon39's kettle design ?
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by goose eye »

I bet there a published paper out there somewhere bout that pizza oven way of cookin.
As far as why folks do as they dew . Ain't got a never mind

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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by LWTCS »

goose eye wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 10:49 am I bet there a published paper out there somewhere bout that pizza oven way of cookin.
As far as why folks do as they dew . Ain't got a never mind

So I'm tole
I think the closest thing I've seen is the way Popcorn set up his outfits?

And Shady or one of them fellers posted an outfit with what appeared to be a horizontal flu running through the middle of the kettle.
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by goose eye »

Carolina wood stove. Outside boiler .

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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

goose eye wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 8:18 am A cob web can cause you aggregation
What Goose says is true Yummy ...small things can make them run dirty.
Rust build up inside, mud wasp nests or any other small thing that crawls up them.
I blow mine out from time to time with compressed air.
I find that a quick run threw the holes with a small drill bit every few years also makes for a good clean flame.
Welcome to borrow one of mine or experiment with one any time ya going past.
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Bryan1 »

I used those 3 ring burners and found there was no way to get all four plates fully loaded so I made my little BD burner out of some 3/4" copper tube, every joint was hard soldered and checked for a vacuum and the 1/4" input BSP thread just connects to a hose to a HP reg. A 2" copper tube regulates the air/gas ratio and I find just running around 4-6 psi will load all the plates nicely.

Also the heatup time has dropped by a big margin and when going into tails a psi or a bit more does help, so this setup has done me nicely and those 3 ring burners are just sitting in the corner of the shed gathering dust.

Cheers Bryan
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Yummyrum »

Got a pic of your home made burner Bryan
I’m interested . As Larry suggested , seems we make a lot if stuff ourselves , why not a burner .
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Archee72 »

Yummyrum wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 5:24 am Burner works fine on a Standard regulator . Just sucks on my HP reg .
Not a bad idea to try it on Saltys next time I’m up that way if he doesn’t mind . …. Or his reg on mine .
Yeah, trying your reg on his or vice versa should give a starting point. Reg creating fuel rich or fuel poor?
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Bryan1 »

Yummyrum wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 2:50 pm Got a pic of your home made burner Bryan
I’m interested . As Larry suggested , seems we make a lot if stuff ourselves , why not a burner .

G'Day Yummy,
I have already done a How To Guide on the Aussie forum so if this allowed here is the link to the thread

https://aussiedistiller.com.au/viewtopi ... 41&t=14296
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Bryan1 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 2:39 pm I used those 3 ring burners and found there was no way to get all four plates fully loaded
There is something very wrong there , either with the still or the burner, Once up to temp, I only ever have to use the two middle rings on a 3 ring burner to run my 4 plate column. And thats using a standard regulator, not the adjustable high PSI one.......even then I need to turn one ring down some or there is too much heat.
You n Yummy must have bought burners from the same shop / factory.
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Yummyrum »

Thanks Bryan
Alas , I , like a few others , are not welcome there and can’t see pics .
Whats the chances of you doing same topic here …. With pics :ebiggrin:
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Re: Propane burner for 50L keg?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Been around for Years Yummy .....pretty much just a DIY crab cooker burner.
They are pretty radical and can put out some serious heat............over kill in my opinion.

Stubby made one once ......think he used it twice. There were photos of his on CCSC but they have disappeared as far as I know.
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