Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Anything cooling/condenser related.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
Andrew_90
Novice
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by Andrew_90 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:04 am

I can lay my hands on some of this. 15mm OD pipe with varying diameters of fins.

I think it will work, any opinions.

http://www.spiralfinnedtube.com/photo/p ... hanger.jpg
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.

User avatar
zed255
Swill Maker
Posts: 427
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:06 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by zed255 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 5:16 am

https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 6#p7295199

Others have done air cooling. Would likely need forced air movement unless made really long.
----------
Zed

When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.

User avatar
Demy
Rumrunner
Posts: 531
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by Demy » Wed Sep 30, 2020 1:11 pm

As already mentioned, I think it needs forced ventilation to have acceptable performance, or it should be very, very long. M is just an opinion, no direct experience.

User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 424
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: PNW

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by Deplorable » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:18 pm

I'd be concerned with how easily the fins could be damaged or bent over. It doesn't look very robust. I wouldn't want something like that unless I had a place where my still could be set up very long term.
Use all your senses, and its not that hard. You just have to pay attention.

v-child
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:56 am

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by v-child » Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:42 am

It looks pricey. I would enclose it in a water jacket (Liebig), but the fins are so close together I doubt you would get much cooling turbulence. I use finned tubes in my liebig and reflux condenser(coldfinger) but the spacing is much wider and alternately notched for cross-flow. If you use it as a product condensor, you would as others have pointed out, have a fan or blower pointed at it. These things look like a base board heater strips.

User avatar
Windy City
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 691
Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 10:52 pm
Location: Chicagoland

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by Windy City » Thu Oct 01, 2020 8:18 am

This is not like finned tube baseboard.
This looks just like copper-fin that is used in heat exchangers for copper finned tube boilers.
The copper finned tube used in heat exchangers is a very stout product that we aggressively clean with wire brushes without worry of bending the fins.
It also has a better heat transfer rate being the fins are copper and all made from one piece (fin & tube)
I would think this could make a great condenser either with fans or better yet as a tube and shell as long as you put diverter plates every few inches.
The liver is evil and must be punished

User avatar
silverbean
Novice
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:13 am
Location: Downunder If you don't like the weather, wait 10 minutes.

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by silverbean » Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:31 am

I experimented with my old half inch x 9 foot worm connected in before my Liebig condenser. I had a fan blowing air over the worm and result was lower water temp on the output of the Liebig, this meant I could do a whole stripping run without swapping out the cooling water instead of half way through. This sort of tube would be ideal if the ID is big enough to cope with the vapour volume.

Andrew_90
Novice
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by Andrew_90 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:41 am

So I wanted the finned tube as the distillate tube in a Liebig.

Was not thinking of air cooling although it is an attractive option. One could drape the finned tubes in a suitable medium, wet it and blow air over it evaporatively cooling it. Starts getting complicated.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.

User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 11277
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by LWTCS » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:32 am

20190814_103452.jpg


A rifled inner tube would work well.
Promotes movement on both inner and outer sides of its tube wall.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

zapata
Distiller
Posts: 1409
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by zapata » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:26 pm

Andrew_90 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:41 am
So I wanted the finned tube as the distillate tube in a Liebig.
Are you trying to achieve something particular? Simple liebigs work well for the jobs they are hired for. Simple mods like the very cool rifling, or spiral wire turbulaors are easy optimizations. The linked pipe is a cool looking product but I can't quite picture a need for it. Of course innovation often involves a lot of trying something just to see, nothing wrong with that.

Andrew_90
Novice
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by Andrew_90 » Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:34 pm

So I can get the finned pipe for free in varying diameters.

More fins = better utilisation of the cooling water = more efficient cooling is my though process.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.

User avatar
sambedded
Trainee
Posts: 758
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:25 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by sambedded » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:12 pm

Proven air cooling solution:
Use regular liebig and a water barrel. Just install car radiator (with a fan, of course) between a liebig and a barrel. Plus you need a pump to recirculate. We build such a setup at my friend's garage and it work pretty well. Summer time fan blows all air out of a garage, but we also installed deflator to divert part of air back to garage for winter time.

zapata
Distiller
Posts: 1409
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by zapata » Mon Oct 05, 2020 3:16 pm

Andrew_90 wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 12:34 pm
More fins = better utilisation of the cooling water = more efficient cooling is my though process.
Not necessarily, I could see those fins playing hell on flow through the shell. Maybe even to the point it's no better than a smooth pipe. If you just put that pipe in a shell like a typical liebig, what directs the water to flow through all the fins? I'd guess exactly how tall the fins are would make a big difference and if they fill the shell ID or not. And you really need to define efficiency and use case, most liebigs are capable of efficiently condensing and subcooling the distillate they are pitted against with length being the only variable. Do you need a shorter liebig? More condensing power for the same length? More subcooling? If not, then more efficient heat transfer doesn't really get you anything (other than a kick ass condenser). These pipes are designed for air, in flowing water heat transfer is already about 100x more efficient which is why you don't see something similar often.

If you have one with a fin OD = to a convenient shell ID then I guess you could shave down half the fins every (shell ID)", alternating sides so you end up crossflowing coolant zig zagging across the pipe and fins without restricting flow too much. Then you still get maximum coolant flow and surface area. It'd be a ridiculously awesome liebig, only relevant when measuring it against itself, but still awesome.

Or just put it in an oversized shell and see what happens.

Free is pretty powerful motivation to play with it. Your link states lots of sizing options, so exactly which are available would determine exactly what I'd personally do with it. Well, that and what I was building a condenser for.

v-child
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:56 am

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by v-child » Mon Oct 05, 2020 4:45 pm


zapata
Distiller
Posts: 1409
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:06 pm

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by zapata » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:02 pm

Pretty much

User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 4013
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by Saltbush Bill » Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:46 pm

If that rifling is inside the pipe as well , you might like to think about weather it could cause pooling and smearing before proceeding with the idea.

v-child
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:56 am

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by v-child » Tue Oct 06, 2020 4:48 am

Andrew_90
If I could come across some finned copper pipe like that, I would construct a "cold finger" condenser where the vapor input/liquid output is in the shell of the condenser and the cooling water runs though the finned pipe in the center. You would have to run this contraption at an angle, say 30 degrees or so, to keep your product from pooling on the fins.

Andrew_90
Novice
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by Andrew_90 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 7:13 am

Very interesting.
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.

User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 11277
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by LWTCS » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:09 am

Saltbush Bill wrote:
Mon Oct 05, 2020 8:46 pm
If that rifling is inside the pipe as well , you might like to think about weather it could cause pooling and smearing before proceeding with the idea.
Has not been a problem Bill.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.

Andrew_90
Novice
Posts: 79
Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:24 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by Andrew_90 » Wed Oct 07, 2020 1:11 am

So in an ideal world, assuming water rather than air as the cooling medium, and not taking into consideration any manufacturing practicalities;

If one could get a spiral between the distillate tube and the outer tube of a Liebig, that forced the water to do say 2 to 5, 360 degree turns around the the inner distillate pipe then would it be safe to assume that one meets and exceeds the requirements for the flow of water and elimination of dead spots?
One too many wasted sunsets, one too many for the road.

v-child
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 115
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:56 am

Re: Condenser pipe with cooling fins

Post by v-child » Wed Oct 07, 2020 4:26 am

Send me three or four feet of the finned tubing and I'll let you know.

Post Reply