Worm size and output

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:45 pm

I'm doing a keg still build. Im using a 1/2" worm as a condenser, in an 8 gallon bucket. I've rolled the worm from 20 feet of 1/2 copper (which came out really nice) but I'm wondering about the output end. With a 15gal keg running into a 2" short column (just to raise the vapor up, not for reflux), and 1/2" output and worm, do I need to keep going with 1/2" all the way out the side of the bucket? 3/8 inch outside diameter is a lot easier to bend (I need a little bend in the tube so it goes straight across and hits the side flat on, right now it wants to take an angled exit). By then the vapor has condensed to liquid any way, right? Can I put an elbow and reducer on the bottom of the coil, and make a smaller hole in the bottom edge of the bucket?
My concern was building up back pressure. What's the proper size worm for a keg build? I think I may have over did it with 1/2"

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:49 pm

1/2" is what we consider the minimum here for safety reasons. Why not use an elbow and go out of the bucket with a piece of 1/2"?

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:07 pm

S-Cackalacky wrote:1/2" is what we consider the minimum here for safety reasons. Why not use an elbow and go out of the bucket with a piece of 1/2"?

I was hoping not to have to make such a big hole in the bucket, plus it needs a bend of about 10-15 degrees to the side, which is way easier to make work right with the smaller tubing. Hard to describe without a picture.

Post by **shadylane** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:16 pm

If you use a 90 the end of the worm can go straight out of the flake stand.

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:23 pm

Yeah that's my problem, it's not flat on, even with the elbow, because I couldn't bend the last 4" or so of the coil any more by hand. I'll just have to take the coil out and try to get it to work again.

Do you guys with worms just glop a lot of silicone on the hole in the flake stand, or do they make some sort of bulkhead connector that helps keep it waterproof?

Post by **shadylane** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 1:41 pm

: Can be found in the electrical section of lowes or home depot.; watertight.jpg (2.97 KiB) Viewed 10473 times

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:15 pm

Awesome!!! Beats globs of silicone

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:34 pm

muscashine wrote:Yeah that's my problem, it's not flat on, even with the elbow, because I couldn't bend the last 4" or so of the coil any more by hand. I'll just have to take the coil out and try to get it to work again.

Do you guys with worms just glop a lot of silicone on the hole in the flake stand, or do they make some sort of bulkhead connector that helps keep it waterproof?

Couldn't you just cut off that 4" so that the end of the coil is perpendicular to the wall of the bucket, put on a 90, and then straight through the wall of the bucket with a piece of pipe (maybe the piece you cut off)?

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:46 pm

BTW - I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but worms can be a little finicky. You need to make sure that the coil takes a downward angle along its entire length from top to bottom. If it has any flat or upward angles anywhere along the route, it will pool liquid and cause back pressure in the vapor path. This will cause the output to spit and huff and smear the cuts. One way to mitigate this is to attach vertical supports to the worm from top to bottom - securing each turn of the coil to the support. This can be lengths of copper pipe soldered or wired to the coil. It's just there to stabilize the coil and prevent the before mentioned pooling problem.

That said, do a search on "liebig condenser".

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Fri Mar 13, 2015 6:27 pm

I looked at the Liebig... I didn't want to use it. The worm was cheaper, and less complex. No pumps, no extra plumbing.

I made four "legs" out of wood about 3/4" by 1 1/2" by 14" long. I split them lengthwise and then clamped them together on the smooth sides. I started at 1.5" from the bottom of the first slat, and each turn of the coil goes up 1.5" as it gets back around. I drilled holes based on this pattern, and wound up with an 8 turn coil. I drilled the wood forms with a 5/8" bit, so I had each half with a semicircle. Using screws, i clamped the slats around the worm. They hold the coil in place and make sure it's a steady drop from top to bottom. No uphills or sags.

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:34 am

S-Cackalacky wrote: Couldn't you just cut off that 4" so that the end of the coil is perpendicular to the wall of the bucket, put on a 90, and then straight through the wall of the bucket with a piece of pipe (maybe the piece you cut off)?

That's what I'm going to wind up doing...

goldfishcf · Post by **goldfishcf** » Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:14 pm

You said you didn't want a liebig because of pumps and complexity. I've wasted a lot of money on trying to make worms (I wanted more of an authentic condenser) the Liebig is may more simpler.
If I'm not mistaken, you'll still need a pump and a reservoir. Your bucket will heat up wayyy to quickly. Maybe one of the more experienced guys can confirm.

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:08 am

You won't need a pump with a worm but it is WAY more difficult to deal with than a liebig. Winding everything just right, securing the braces, making sure the barrel does not leak, making it level each time, getting it set up the exact distance from your still so your line connecting them goes on and the unions line up and don't leak each time, running the fill and drain hoses, big and cumbersome to store and to anyone who sees it it just screams "hey, I'm making moonshine!".

A liebig requires soldering two fittings to two lengths of pipe, soldering two more scrap stub outs, connecting two water lines and a $30 pond pump. They run at almost any angle, store on a shelf or anywhere when done and no one who doesn't distill knows what it is. Like Bellybuster pointed out in a post a while back, you don't need all the whirlygigs that everyone talks about to make a liebig work. They usually just do. The insurance of a piece of wire in the jacket or a little piece of scrubbie to help with huffing (because it is too efficient) is not much trouble though.

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:19 am

Now you tell me! If the bucket thing doesn't work I'll go back and look at a liebig. The worm IS rather big and obvious, sitting in its 8 gallon bucket. The column I have planned is pretty versatile. There are three unions set on angles so everything's adjustable. I don't have to get it exactly the same height or position every time. Is there a certain model pond pump you guys use? I looked online and at a pet store. The pet store had an adjustable aquarium pump, but it was about $60, which is just a bit more than I paid for my 20 foot 1/2 worm.

Well, I finished the worm today with the exception of the output from the bucket. Fixed the braces and the elbow so it goes straight across. Im happier with the 1/2" all the way through but the 3/8 output would have been easier. I just have to find that watertight bulkhead connector. They didn't know what I was talking about in Lowes when I asked, but I found it online, so I know they have it.

Drunk-N-Smurf · Post by **Drunk-N-Smurf** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:26 am

When I run into that problem I just bring the product up on their website from my phone and show it to them, then they can usually find it.

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:34 am

Drunk-N-Smurf wrote:When I run into that problem I just bring the product up on their website from my phone and show it to them, then they can usually find it.

You're right on there! I am in Depot a lot for work. Their app let's me see the isle and area that the item is in so I can by pass the helpful "know nothing about construction" people working in the construction supply store.

Hound Dog · Post by **Hound Dog** » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:38 am

For a pump, many refer to Harbor Freight. I got mine at Lowes where they have supplies for fish ponds and stuff. It was like $30. When you go, just concern yourself with the head lift rating. The rest will be plenty enough for what you need but it needs to get the water to the highest point of your system. It won't be a very big pump. I say a pond pump because like an aquarium pump they are magnetic drive and don't burn up when you restrict the flow.

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:18 pm

Hound Dog wrote:
Drunk-N-Smurf wrote:When I run into that problem I just bring the product up on their website from my phone and show it to them, then they can usually find it.
You're right on there! I am in Depot a lot for work. Their app let's me see the isle and area that the item is in so I can by pass the helpful "know nothing about construction" people working in the construction supply store.

Yeah - I've noticed the same thing in Lowes. Most don't know squat. Like Radio Shack and their new logo: "You've got questions, We've got blank stares!" Try asking where the optoisolators or the SWR meters are.

Post by **S-Cackalacky** » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:46 pm

This is the pond pump I have from ebay - http://www.ebay.com/itm/370-GPH-Submers ... 3cc6c7737a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow . I bought that one because of its 6.6 feet head lift.

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 5:32 am

Hey guys thanks for all the answers. Its been a long time coming but I'm finally starting to finish my build. Although I made a great looking worm the more I think about it, I'm going to be switching over to a liebig. The worm is just way too obvious as to what it is, and too big (it sits in an 8 gallon bucket). I had problems with my smaller worm in its 5 gallon bucket. The bucket was always cracking because I stored it in the attic, and the summer heat would get to it, I guess. The silicone where the worm exited the bucket would dry and come loose, too. At least I could hide a liebig condenser...

Post by **shadylane** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:01 am

muscashine wrote:Hey guys thanks for all the answers. The worm is just way too obvious as to what it is, and too big.

Add a couple variable capacitors, a few alligator clips and some coax and claim it's a antenna tuner

RedwoodHillBilly · Post by **RedwoodHillBilly** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:02 am

You could also claim that the thumper is a 2M duplexer

Post by **cranky** » Sat Nov 21, 2015 10:36 am

My favorite is steam punk fountain project, after all if you think about it a still is just a steam powered fountain

My liebig pretty much just blends in with the rest of the random copper I have but the other condensers don't exactly blend in but I doubt anybody would actually guess what they are for. I personally don't like flake stands for many reasons and always recommend liebigs.

Bagasso · Post by **Bagasso** » Sun Nov 22, 2015 12:04 am

20 feet of 1/2" with a reduction to 3/8" in the last bit should be just fine.

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:50 am

Thanks bagasso - I'm working on a liebig now though, hahaha.

Now I need to figure out what to do with 20 feet of worm. I hate to just throw it out, it was expensive and I'm really proud of how even it came out. But It's hard to explain why I have a flake stand in the house...

Bagasso · Post by **Bagasso** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:01 am

Wort chiller.

Post by **robb** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:20 pm

+1 Bagasso

Post by **cranky** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 2:46 pm

I took a 20" long piece of 1.5" pipe and stuck three half inch tubes inside it to make a nice little shotgun.

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:56 am

cranky wrote:I took a 20" long piece of 1.5" pipe and stuck three half inch tubes inside it to make a nice little shotgun.

I seriously thought about making a shotgun but I'm not sure I have the requisite skills to make the part where the single output from the still splits off into the shotgun section. I guess I would have to drill three holes in a plate and solder the pipes, then put the whole assembly down in another pipe, solder it in, and then solder on a reducer. I just worry something inside would come loose while I put the reducer on. I understand the concept and construction of the shotgun but actual assembly is something a little beyond me. I do well just to solder the simple pipe joints without burning myself or the house down.

muscashine · Post by **muscashine** » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:59 am

Bagasso wrote:Wort chiller.

That is actually a great idea. I could easily modify the worm into a wort chiller with a couple of pipe connections

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Worm size and output

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