Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Anything cooling/condenser related.

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ozone39
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by ozone39 »

You could use a heater core from a parts store for cheap (especially a GM aftermarket one) and either put a fan behind it or submerge it in a low flow cooling bucket (or run long enough hoses and throw it in the fridge/freezer)...
thinking inside the box is for squares....
chaos
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by chaos »

Bursal wrote:After much reading I think I will build one of Harry's design still heads. It looks excellent. One issue for me is cooling water supply is rain water and LIMITED, so an efficient recycling system is necessary. Space is a problem so it cannot be too big, large garbage bin is ideal. I can either use a washing machine pump or a pond pump, have both from previous systems.

It is going on a 25lt stainless steel boiler with two elements and one of Pint's controllers.

My questions are to users of this design are there any issues I should be aware of either in building or operating.

I live in North Queensland and the climate has been known to get hot so efficient cooling is essential, I would like to get the size of the water cooler smaller than a car radiator, any thoughts on a car conditioner condenser or a small room air conditioner condenser with an appropriate fan. Would either of these create a pressure problem for a small pump?

:?:
i live in Melbourne as we have a large thing on water restrictions im only a noob but i thought id give u an idear of using Grey water in the condenser but use SS for the cooling line though as the stuff that is in the laundry water isn't good for copper anymore and will slowly corrode it so good idear for those of us than have this water problem and those that think green
Titus-a-fishus
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Titus-a-fishus »

Bursal wrote: One issue for me is cooling water supply is rain water and LIMITED, so an efficient recycling system is necessary.
Space is a problem so it cannot be too big, large garbage bin is ideal.
I can either use a washing machine pump or a pond pump, have both from previous systems.

It is going on a 25lt stainless steel boiler with two elements and one of Pint's controllers.

My questions are to users of this design are there any issues I should be aware of either in building or operating.

I live in North Queensland and the climate has been known to get hot so efficient cooling is essential, I would like to get the size of the water cooler smaller than a car radiator, any thoughts on a car conditioner condenser or a small room air conditioner condenser with an appropriate fan. Would either of these create a pressure problem for a small pump?

:?:
Then you will appreciate a comment from someone living in the Far Nth Qld :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin: :ebiggrin:

I thought I would need lots of cooling as well
So had an airconditioner converted to cool the water.
First run using a fountain pump showed that it was overkill

Didn't need to use the converted aircon at all and havn't used it since
Just have a big old copper that probably holds .... 100ltrs and the pond pump
This does the job real well until I hit the 92C that lifts the temp of the cooling water a bit

But if you are using a Bok or reflux a garbage bin or large water drum should do
Try it and see how you go.


Image

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hackware
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by hackware »

had an idea on a variation of the jackson crossflow...

what about a double helix coil mounted horizontally...?

seems like it would be a lot easier to construct, shorter column, and perhaps near same performance...

maybe a "funnel" to center drops or sum such...

william...
tell me how hard it is to do... tell me how expensive it will be... just don't tell me what i can not do...

lead, follow, or get out of the way... ankle biters will be kicked...

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myles
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by myles »

hackware wrote:had an idea on a variation of the jackson crossflow...

what about a double helix coil mounted horizontally...?

seems like it would be a lot easier to construct, shorter column, and perhaps near same performance...

maybe a "funnel" to center drops or sum such...

william...
I use one like that but it is a different animal to Harrys crossflow. There is no way that you can get coolant flow rates through a coil at the speed of the coolant in Harrys design. OK the coil is a bit easier to build but it is not as efficient.

If you want efficiency and compact size you just can't beat a crossflow. If you dont mind using a physically bigger unit then sure - go with the coil - and have a look at Riku's Thors Hammer whilst you are at it.
skunk12
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by skunk12 »

Yeah, that seems like Thor's Hammer to me (n00b though, so don't take that as much :oops: )

On the topic of the Jackson Crossflow though...are the endplates OUTSIDE of the 2" pipe (http://distillers.tastylime.net/library ... g_0013.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow), or IN the 2" pipe?Looking at that image (page 13), it appears as if the 35mm section bridges the T to the plate, then the plate covers the 2", and then the endcap is soldered to the outside of the plate. This seems very strange compared to just nesting the plate in the 2" extensions (35mm) :? mainly just checking that I'm not misunderstanding the traditional design. Judging from picture and instructions, it seems the endplates do go "outside" the 2" pipe
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by myles »

The endplates with all the holes in are either the same diameter as the outside of the condenser shell - in which case they are fitted to the cut ends of the shell tube, OR they are the same outer diameter as the inner diameter of the condenser shell - in which case they are fitted inside the shell.

The end caps go on the outside of the condenser shell.

EDIT I think in Harry's origional the endplates are 'outside' the condenser shell but they are the same outer diameter and are thus flush with it. If you want to make the tubes like a casette, then the endplates need to go inside the shell. Harder to do.
mavnkaf
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by mavnkaf »

Hey Operators, I thought I chime in on how I cracked this nut. Some years ago I made a Harry’s cross flow condenser. I don’t need to go on how well it worked as theirs enough talk about that.

As far as end plates go, I made them about 5mm wider than the cross flow outer50 mm tube diameter. Silver soldered the end plate on to the out side of the condenser tubes. Silver the tubes in place. I then used leaded solder for the end caps. Lower temperature solder does not interferer with the other solder joints. The leaded solder is on the water cooling side of the condenser so no harm is done.

Worked first go for me.

Cheers
Marc

If in doubt, look here, (at the link below), or ask questions! I belive this forum is made for these sort of questions


http://tinyurl.com/64krhvl" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

Ps, look around, you will see other construction pictures.

Edit 5sec after I posted, bad grammer?
Edit, Rum too nice and I doing a no no, PWP, sorry.
vinper
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by vinper »

want some recirculating cold water? check this build out http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/new-bre ... ndex4.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by vinper »

using a window unit in a cooler
Kaput808
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Kaput808 »

I need help with my crossflow. Do you NEED to hard solder the inner tubes and plate INTO your pipe?? I hard solders the 21 or so lil tubes to the plate that hold them but I cant get my 2" pipe HOT enough to hard solder the damn tubes/plate into the Pipe. I am using MAP gas and the Sani-Silv 15 I think. The melting point for the solder is rated at 1300 and Map is supposed to hit 2k huh? My work table is outside and with the wind and everything I cant seem to get it to the melting point. I even created wind breaks and what not to keep direct breeze the hell away but I cant get it to go. I have soft solder rated at 440 F melting point. That should hold everything together as long as I have water running thru the Jackson? Man I really dont want to have to track down and Oxy/acet tank. Im not sure if anyone check this thread anymore so I might also try in the mentor section or something.

Kaput
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by heartcut »

if you have the tubes high temp soldered to the plates, put the shell and caps on with low temp solder and you should be fine. Inspect the tube connections one last time before you hide them, though.
heartcut

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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by new_moonshiner »

my last 3 inch VM head using Mr. Jackson's Design. Cross flow # 5 .
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Kaput808
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Kaput808 »

Those tubes for the crossflow looks long. How big was your inner tubes for the condenser? New moonshineer?
Kaput808
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Kaput808 »

heartcut wrote:if you have the tubes high temp soldered to the plates, put the shell and caps on with low temp solder and you should be fine. Inspect the tube connections one last time before you hide them, though.
Thx man. I found a torch to borrow. Man it was fun trying to braze those pieces. Definitely not trying a jackson built again anytime soon.
new_moonshiner
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by new_moonshiner »

This build I used 18 inches X 1/4 inch very thin wall tubes( not thicker refrigeration tubing) for better heat transfer ..
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Bushman
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Bushman »

The advantage to this condenser not only does it save height but gives unrestricted coolant flow, keep us posted on how she performs!
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Kaput808 »

Will do. Just waiting on my valves and i can complete my build
silvenridley
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by silvenridley »

Just wondering if there is a pdf. file that is available for the jackson crossflow condensor that I can print to use the templates. The one available online (for me at least) through HD is not printer friendly. If possible I would like a .pdf version of the whole document - "Build an Eco Friendly Home Still" by Harry Jackson
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jholmz
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by jholmz »

heres a cutaway pic of one thats in the new distillers reading lounge in the build section
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Expat
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Expat »

Can anyone comment on the relative efficiency of the cross flow design (and/or the coil equiv) vs a standard vertical condenser, will it handle the same wattage? Also are there any issues with condensate pooling in the horizontal section?

I'm currently running a 2" Bok with a wound coil and would like to increase my packed column length by reducing the height of the condenser (already maxed out the available height). If I can reuse my wound coil great, but I could build the shotgun if required.
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Bushman
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Bushman »

ExpatLad wrote:Can anyone comment on the relative efficiency of the cross flow design (and/or the coil equiv) vs a standard vertical condenser, will it handle the same wattage? Also are there any issues with condensate pooling in the horizontal section?

I'm currently running a 2" Bok with a wound coil and would like to increase my packed column length by reducing the height of the condenser (already maxed out the available height). If I can reuse my wound coil great, but I could build the shotgun if required.
Can't answer your question exactly but the two main advantages are that it allows unrestricted coolent flow (ideal for recirculating setups) and it lowers over all still height.
Saltydill
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Saltydill »

So, sorry to raise this post from the grave but does anyone happen to have a pdf copy of Harrys book by chance? Ive skimmed through it on the way back machine but can't view any of the illustrations. I'm looking to build one as I'm learning more about this. Still reading excessively as instructed. Thanks in advance.
The Baker
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by The Baker »

Never be sorry to use an old post, there's lots of good stuff there.
Just be sorry if it is not relevant or useful.

There's many a good tune played on an old fiddle, so they say.

Geoff
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Expat »

Saltydill wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:41 pm So, sorry to raise this post from the grave but does anyone happen to have a pdf copy of Harrys book by chance? Ive skimmed through it on the way back machine but can't view any of the illustrations. I'm looking to build one as I'm learning more about this. Still reading excessively as instructed. Thanks in advance.
What specifically are you looking for? I use a crossflow for my reflux condenser, perhaps I can help.

Reference:
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 87&t=47632
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manu de hanoi
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by manu de hanoi »

I'd be worried that non condensable gases be trapped on the non aerated end of the condenser thereby reducing the effective condenser area.
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Yummyrum
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Yummyrum »

manu de hanoi wrote: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:00 pm I'd be worried that non condensable gases be trapped on the non aerated end of the condenser thereby reducing the effective condenser area.
Surely having an atmosphere vent at each end would solve that . There should be at least one anyway for safety reasons .
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Saltydill »

[/quote]

What specifically are you looking for? I use a crossflow for my reflux condenser, perhaps I can help.

Reference:
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 87&t=47632
[/quote]

I was looking for the template to the endplate. Height wise, I haven't seen a more compact reflux head or condensor. I have some limitations there since I'll be working with a gas range to start. I did find a b/w drawing on the parent site but didn't know if it was true to scale. On a side note though, how well is yours working?
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Re: Jackson Crossflow Condenser

Post by Expat »

Saltydill wrote: Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:09 am
What specifically are you looking for? I use a crossflow for my reflux condenser, perhaps I can help.

Reference:
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 87&t=47632
I was looking for the template to the endplate. Height wise, I haven't seen a more compact reflux head or condensor. I have some limitations there since I'll be working with a gas range to start. I did find a b/w drawing on the parent site but didn't know if it was true to scale. On a side note though, how well is yours working?
Re the end plates I made easyflange and used triclamps, this really in my opinion is the best way as you wont end up with an inaccessible leak, which proved its value immediately. If I had to do them again I would just use SS ferrules.

Since the original build I've only made two small modifications; I shortened the length of pipe below the tee, and added a SS ferrule, thereby reducing the overall height and reliability of that connection. The other is that I added a second atmospheric port on the other arm of the crossflow, figured it would balance air escaping and not allow pockets to form. Note that the arms of my cross flow are tilted slightly upwards to allow distillate to return more easily, which isn't on any of the original designs I saw.

How is it working? The answer is... its bullet proof. My current setup is 5500w electric and it knocks down everything without breaking a sweat, only a tiny trickle of water is required. I'm using it on my 3" column with a 3-2 reducer and I couldn't be happier, as it maximizes the available height.
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