Setting up recirculating cooling system

[ddizzle22]

After my initial Vinegar Cleaning run i took notice to how much water i was using just hooked upto the washer outlet. I started researching recirculating setups and have a couple questions. I already went out and got myself a Pond Pump that pumps 210GPH with a max height of 8ft. Also grabbed a 32Gal trash can from lowes.

First question i have is i saw in several other threads about installing a ball valve before the condenser as well as a T. I believe i have that installed correctly. Hose from pump goes to the T one end goes to a hose that goes right back into the reservoir and the other end goes to the ball valve which then leads to my condenser. This is supposed to take some of the strain off the pump i guess if throttling back the ball valve. However when running it I notice i need to pinch off the hose going back to the reservoir at first to start pumping up into my liebig then all is good and i can throttle water speed. Is this the correct way or should i just run it wide open.

Secondly on a 12Gal run how many times will i need to empty and refill the 32Gal trash can? Hoping to save myself from having to refill multiple times. Any help with recirculating setups would be great.

[rad14701]

Try moving your valve to the return line instead of the condenser line... Or utilize two valves...

[piperdave]

+1 what Rad said. If you have a magnetic drive pump then install the 2 way valve on the return. Way simpler. Works for me.

[ddizzle22]

+1 what Rad said. If you have a magnetic drive pump then install the 2 way valve on the return. Way simpler. Works for me.

Not sure if have magnetic drive pump or not. Mine is a Smart Pond Pond pump from Lowes. Never thought of putting the valve on the return. Should i just get rid of the T then all together. Once its pinched off it definitely gives a good flow just not as hard as the water that is exiting through the hose off the T.

[ddizzle22]

Here is the pump I picked up.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/smartpond-210- ... mp/3036223" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Euphoria]

Are you trying to cool a Pot Still or a Reflux Column Still? Generally, sizes being equal, a Reflux Column will need a bit more cooling capability than a Pot Still. If you want to include a "throttling valve" to regulate cooling water flow, I would suggest installing it on the downstream side (outflow) of either your dephlegmator, (Reflux,) or your condenser, (or both,) to keep either the dephlegmator or the condenser full of water and not trap air pockets. If you put the metering valve on the intake side, you risk impeding the flow into those cooling appliances, and not having the coolant completely fill either one will create a problem trying to maintain the cooling temperature. You also may find that your 32 gallon reservoir may wind up getting quite warm by the end of your run. You may want to think about adding a cooler to take some of the heat out before it returns to the reservoir with a radiator coil and a fan, or something similar.

[cranky]

I don't know if that one is mag drive or not but I run a mag drive pump with no flow diverter just a ball or gate valve depending on the condenser, and was running around 30 gallons in a reservoir. If I remember right, for a pot run, it could just handle a 12 gallon spirit run but it was right at the limit. The distillate would get pretty warm by the end. When I run reflux I use the 30 gal for the product condenser and a 50 gal for the reflux condenser.

Posting same time as Euphoria

[piperdave]

Most pond pumps are mag drives. Looks like the one you picked is as well. In the picture of the one you picked it has a valve on the output of the pump. I wouldn't use that valve but use a valve on the return. Otherwise the pump looks fine.


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[ddizzle22]

Are you trying to cool a Pot Still or a Reflux Column Still? Generally, sizes being equal, a Reflux Column will need a bit more cooling capability than a Pot Still. If you want to include a "throttling valve" to regulate cooling water flow, I would suggest installing it on the downstream side (outflow) of either your dephlegmator, (Reflux,) or your condenser, (or both,) to keep either the dephlegmator or the condenser full of water and not trap air pockets. If you put the metering valve on the intake side, you risk impeding the flow into those cooling appliances, and not having the coolant completely fill either one will create a problem trying to maintain the cooling temperature. You also may find that your 32 gallon reservoir may wind up getting quite warm by the end of your run. You may want to think about adding a cooler to take some of the heat out before it returns to the reservoir with a radiator coil and a fan, or something similar.

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Wow amazing setup you have there. Mine is for a 15.5 Gal Keg setup Pot still. I used the plans off this site and built mine exactly to spec. I think with everyones advice here I am going to move the valve to the output side of my liebig. I was afraid with putting the valve in it would put alot of strain on the pump and saw from old posts on here to install the T to help relieve some of that strain.

[ddizzle22]

Most pond pumps are mag drives. Looks like the one you picked is as well. In the picture of the one you picked it has a valve on the output of the pump. I wouldn't use that valve but use a valve on the return. Otherwise the pump looks fine.


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Perfect thank you. I have the valve that came with the pump wide open. I just switched my ball valve to the output side of my liebig that should help throttle back the flow. I dont think the pot still should need full force.

[ddizzle22]

I don't know if that one is mag drive or not but I run a mag drive pump with no flow diverter just a ball or gate valve depending on the condenser, and was running around 30 gallons in a reservoir. If I remember right, for a pot run, it could just handle a 12 gallon spirit run but it was right at the limit. The distillate would get pretty warm by the end. When I run reflux I use the 30 gal for the product condenser and a 50 gal for the reflux condenser.

Posting same time as Euphoria

I will be running a pot still based off the specs on here. I was thinking of freezing a few 1gallon milk jugs to throw into the reservoir as temps rise to help.

[piperdave]

I do that and it helps.


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[rgreen2002]

+1 Euphoria

DD... when I was running a reservoir I used to have several frozen 2 liter soda bottles too. I never ran a fan/radiator but I wanted to... then I connected to the water system and ran constant fresh water.

It is an extraordinary slow rate and the amount of water was similar to the amount I was using in the reservoir. I was just lucky I could do so.

You're almost there! Keep going!

[ddizzle22]

+1 Euphoria

DD... when I was running a reservoir I used to have several frozen 2 liter soda bottles too. I never ran a fan/radiator but I wanted to... then I connected to the water system and ran constant fresh water.

It is an extraordinary slow rate and the amount of water was similar to the amount I was using in the reservoir. I was just lucky I could do so.

You're almost there! Keep going!

Yeah man its taking a while switching from my smaller setup i have had for years. I like to try and do things right so dont have to go back over. When you say connected to water system what do you mean? I was at first hooked up right to my washing machine water faucet but the pressure coming out of that and my ball valve even cut back was really putting a strain on the hoses it seemed. I just thought this seemed like a better overall option. I have city water and its really not that expensive i just thought this might work a little better in the long run.

[rgreen2002]

I have city water too and agree with the cost. I have a 5 plate flute and run a dephleg and shotgun PC. I run in the basement and have my water input down there. I run from a valve at the wall to the flute inputs and I run separate ins (dephleg and PC) from the same line. I have valves on the outflow like mentioned above... The tubing from SD (PEX?) as well as the connections are great and handle everything.

When I run my pot still head and liebig I also run from the wall. I use the spigot to adjust the flow. It takes a little fiddling but I get where I need to be.

Try the pump for a while and if it works.... perfect. If not, then you always have a backup!

[ddizzle22]

Yeah I think part of my issue was using the ball valve on the input side off the faucet. That caused the hosing i bought from brewhardware to expand a good bit. However I never had the ball valve on the output side of the liebig. I should try that and see. Might be easier and less cluttered if do things that way.

[GrassHopper]

I run a 30 gal recirculating system with a 550 gph pump. With a 12 gal wash on pot mode running propane it takes about 2 1/2 hrs for a strip run and my 30 gals need to be replaced with and additional 15 gals of fresh cold water. I drain the 30 gals down until almost empty and then add another 15 gals of fresh cold water to finish the run down to 20% ABV and then shut down.
On a strip run or a reflux run it will take ( 3) 30 gal charges of fresh cold water. I have a valve on my return water to the water reservoir which I can switch to pump out the hot water ( I usually go to 120 degrees Fahrenheit before diverting out....so my pump doesn't get too hot ) to either a drain or outdoors. I have a separate fresh water input hose that refills the barrel. I also run a separate pump out of the same reservoir to my RC for reflux runs. In the summer when I can run my well water, I just turn on the faucet and run just enough water in and pump enough water out to keep the water at a continuous level for the system to work.

[bluefish_dist]

I started out with a single 275 gallon tote and would get a 40+ deg temp rise when stripping 75 gallons at 8400 watts or a spirit run off a keg still with a 4" column loaded with low wines. Worked ok, but distillate got pretty warm on the strip runs. Now I have two 275's and I get less than 25 deg rise. With one tote I had to wait a day between runs to allow it to cool. With two it's cool enough the next morning to run again. Totes can be bought used for a little over $100.
On the 2" vm I could barely do a run from 10% wash with a 30 gallon trash can. I found it was better to overkill on the water volume. I also added a weir so I could add cold water and let the hot go to drain. Save me a time or two on long runs.

[FuelMaker]

You could also do a "kidney loop" recirculation: split the output from the pump with a tee, have one leg go through a valve and onto your condenser, and the other leg go through a radiator and fan of some sort and back to your reservoir.

The mag drive pump you linked can supply FAR more water flow than you need for your condenser, this way you get to use the excess capacity of your pump to cool down your reservoir too. In a way that's independent of the flow control of your condenser.

If you find that you're not getting enough flow through your condenser (highly unlikely) add a gate valve to your radiator water line and restrict the flow a bit until you do.

In general you REALLY dont want to starve a pump on the input - even a mag drive pump - it'll destroy the pump in short order. Mag drive pumps are the only kind of pumps that you can get away with closing off the output but even those it prematurely ages the pump. It's much better to have it constantly flowing and then tap off what you need.

[skow69]

I was at first hooked up right to my washing machine water faucet but the pressure coming out of that and my ball valve even cut back was really putting a strain on the hoses it seemed.

Why doesn't turning the water down at the faucet relieve the strain on the hoses?

[ddizzle22]

I was at first hooked up right to my washing machine water faucet but the pressure coming out of that and my ball valve even cut back was really putting a strain on the hoses it seemed.

Why doesn't turning the water down at the faucet relieve the strain on the hoses?

Yeah I'm questioning that as well. I need not look into that faucet and see if functioning. All these ideas are great I like conserving and reusing things. Thank you all for the great advice.

[Euphoria]

Turning down the water flow at the faucet will only reduce volume, not pressure inside the hose, which is a closed container in its own right. If the outflow of the other end of the hose has less restriction on it than the supply feeding it, then you can reduce pressure because there is no resistance to flow.

Now, if you have "throttled down" the control valve on either of the outflows on your dephleg or condensor, then you are effectively restricting that ability to achieve open flow. When you restrict open flow, you will build up pressure. All pressure inside a closed container (or hose) will be equal in all directions, and your hose bulging shows that clearly to be so.

But, (and there's always a but,) the down side to further restricting the water supply valve is that you run the risk of not fully filling the cooling tubes in your dephleg or condensor and that, in turn, will give you some erratic cooling performance that you will be continually fighting and fidgeting with in your attempt to try and get "dialed in." So, unless you have a way to regulate the pressure, (i.e. pressure regulator,) just attempting to regulate the flow rate is not going to solve the problem of your bulging hoses as long as there is a restriction of some kind downstream. If you aren't moving water out as fast, or faster, than you are introducing it, pressure will build in the system.

[skow69]

So don't put valves on the back side. Yes, it is theoretically possible that you might get an air bubble at startup and have to bleed it out , but it has never been an issue in my experience.

Or cut up and old garden hose and use it. We are only talking about household pressure. What kind of wimpy hose won't take that?

Everything doesn't have to be complicated.

[Euphoria]

So don't put valves on the back side. Yes, it is theoretically possible that you might get an air bubble at startup and have to bleed it out , but it has never been an issue in my experience.
Or cut up and old garden hose and use it. We are only talking about household pressure. What kind of wimpy hose won't take that?
Everything doesn't have to be complicated.

Without valves, there is obviously no way of controlling your coolant flow. That said, I was merely attempting to explain what was causing the "wimpy" hoses to bulge, (the old pressure vs volume argument.) The simplest solution here, IMO, would just go out and buy several feet of quality reinforced Tygon tubing, or equivalent, with a high enough pressure rating to withstand the household water pressure, and just replace the flimsy tubing that is bulging. I agree that normal household pressure shouldn't keep you from throttling down your outflow valves on the coolant loops because you are worrying about too much pressure.

[cranky]

I will say, the water pressure at my house is 86PSI which I hardly call wimpy, most municipalities don't require regulating household pressure until somewhere around or above that range. I also run pumps with no pressure relief, although I did recently have a failure. I also have a pump that has something like 1500 GPM flow with 23Ft head lift that blows my entire system apart then empties my entire reservoir in seconds I was thinking about utilizing one of the coils of copper I have hanging on my wall as both a pressure relief return and cooling coil.

[skow69]

Holy basement flood, Batman. My pressure is 40 psi unless the neighbor is watering his lawn.

They sell regulators in 1/2 inch pipe, ya know.

[ddizzle22]

I'm going to look into new hose. My stuff is this so it's fairly thick I would think it should hold up. https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ ... ng12id.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[cranky]

Holy basement flood, Batman. My pressure is 40 psi unless the neighbor is watering his lawn.

They sell regulators in 1/2 inch pipe, ya know.

When it happened it sprayed out like a fire hose and I had several inches of water in my garage until it all ran out, fortunately the floor slopes slightly and I live on a hill My water pressure is good enough that I have 2 faucets on a 100 gallon bathtub that can fill it in probably 3 minutes and I can still flush the toilet in the other bathroom or run the washer without affecting flow

[ddizzle22]

Went to Lowes to do some upgrading and found myself with a little issue. I wanted to add garden hose fittings to the ends of my liebig for easier take down. I found some sharkbite type fittings that went over my 1/2 inlet and outlet and went to 3/4 male threaded. I thought this was the same as the garden hose fittings like i used for my T off my washing machine hook up. However hooked them up and tigthened down like i do off my T just as tight as could go with hand and thats not tight enough sprays water out the top. I believe these might be 3/4 taper or fine thread vs what my T is. Anyone ever done this before and if so what fittings did you use.


This thread i can easily hand tighten and doesnt leak off the hose.

[Euphoria]

As you already found out, 3/4" garden hose threads are not the same as 3/4" NPT (National Pipe Thread.) No, they won't mate up. In my case, I chose to go with barbed fittings, stainless steel ring clamps and stainless steel quick disconnect fittings to make assembly and break-down much simpler. For hose, I used the heavy clear plastic hose with the cord mesh embedded in it. It's good for 175 psi. I also found that using a heat gun to soften the hoses makes it much easier to install and remove them on the barbed fittings. YMMV