4 Barrel Gatling Condenser

[MidnightThunder]

I've been looking for a way to get a 2" vapor path for my VM column so I can run at a minimum Reflux Ratio of 1:1. Considered buying a 2" shotgun but the area in the vapor tubes is less than 2 square inches, so the minimum size would need to be a 3 or even 4" shotgun. Well these are way more expensive so I have an alternative solution. I want to build 3 more liebigs that match my current one and hook them up in parallel using some type of manifold that would not restrict flow, nor be too expensive. The liebig is a 1" vapor path with 1 1/4" cooling jacket and 1/2 water inlets/outlets. I'm considering this route for a number of reasons. I had a few feet of 1" laying around and got a 9 foot section of 1 1/4" for a bargain a week ago, so the liebig will not cost too much for 3. Also, having never messed with a shotgun they seem difficult to assemble and would be expensive to make one with a 4" shell. Also ideally 4 liebig with a small water jacket will weigh less than a 4" shotgun filled with water.

I have a few thoughts on this.

1. For a 5 way manifold (1 2" input, 4 1" outputs) I was considering getting a 1.5"*1.5"*2" T.C. tee and then branch off the 1.5" tees to two 1"*1"*1.5" tees that would connect to the liebig. This should preserve the vapor path. Can anybody think of a better method?

2. I was thinking about if the manifold outputs were inline, with the input in the center, and the 4 liebigs were still run diagonally but they were stacked so they sat at different heights, if under operation this would act as a heads, hearts, tails separator due to the different weights of the vapors. That way I could set a container large enough to collect the expected quantity of each under its respective condenser and not have to worry about switching containers, or contaminating the hearts jar with tails.

Interested to hear thoughts on this.

P.S. I have enough pipe to make some extra condensers if anybody is interested. They would be soldered with Sta-Brite 8 and made from L copper.

[Oldvine Zin]

OVZ

[still_stirrin]

1. For a 5 way manifold (1 2" input, 4 1" outputs) I was considering getting a 1.5"*1.5"*2" T.C. tee and then branch off the 1.5" tees to two 1"*1"*1.5" tees that would connect to the liebig. This should preserve the vapor path. Can anybody think of a better method?

Build a copper plenum (box) out of sheet or flattened pipe. Solder in 1" pipe sections with couplings/unions to connect to the multiple Liebig vapor tubes.

Your approach with stacked Tee's will result in unbalanced vapor flow. Pressure (static pressure) is the motive force which causes the flow to balance and you'd have to have that equal in all the tubes to balance. And static pressure is a function of the flow through the respective pipe and the source pressure. So, different lengths will adjust the respective flows. It would be tough to balance it all out.

But the bigger question is why do you want to maintain a 2" ID (equivalent) vapor path through the product condenser?

2. I was thinking about if the manifold outputs were inline, with the input in the center, and the 4 liebigs were still run diagonally but they were stacked so they sat at different heights, if under operation this would act as a heads, hearts, tails separator due to the different weights of the vapors. That way I could set a container large enough to collect the expected quantity of each under its respective condenser and not have to worry about switching containers, or contaminating the hearts jar with tails....Interested to hear thoughts on this.

Nope. This isn't the way it works. Unfortunately, the vapor won't separate like this. Nice try.
ss

[rad14701]

How much power will you be pushing to think 4 - 1.25" over 1" liebigs would be required for product cooling...??? Seriously, just because you can doesn't mean you should... We have members pushing 5500W or more at 3/4" over 1/2" and 1" over 3/4" without any problems... Sometimes overkill is, well, just overkill...

[MidnightThunder]

I'm not pushing anywhere near the power to require such a large vapor path. Only 2000-3000 watts. This is a luxury build, not a necessity. I want the large vapor path to be able to pull off at a lower RR, so that if I want to run something with more flavor than the neutral my VM produces, I can run at a lower RR and collect faster rather than detaining the still. This build is more because I have the 1 1/4" already and scored it for $20, and don't have a better use for it. Otherwise it will sit around. If there is a better use for 9 feet of inch and a quarter, clue me in. I'm all ears. But I'd rather put it to use than just let it collect dust. I know that a VM is much more suited to making neutral over flavors, compared to other types, but I don't have the cash to shell out for some 4" copper for a sweet flute build, and the scrap yards around me aren't too friendly to individuals. So this is my idea of adapting what I have to stretch it's production capabilities.

[MidnightThunder]

1. For a 5 way manifold (1 2" input, 4 1" outputs) I was considering getting a 1.5"*1.5"*2" T.C. tee and then branch off the 1.5" tees to two 1"*1"*1.5" tees that would connect to the liebig. This should preserve the vapor path. Can anybody think of a better method?

Build a copper plenum (box) out of sheet or flattened pipe. Solder in 1" pipe sections with couplings/unions to connect to the multiple Liebig vapor tubes.

Your approach with stacked Tee's will result in unbalanced vapor flow. Pressure (static pressure) is the motive force which causes the flow to balance and you'd have to have that equal in all the tubes to balance. And static pressure is a function of the flow through the respective pipe and the source pressure. So, different lengths will adjust the respective flows. It would be tough to balance it all out.

But the bigger question is why do you want to maintain a 2" ID (equivalent) vapor path through the product condenser?

2. I was thinking about if the manifold outputs were inline, with the input in the center, and the 4 liebigs were still run diagonally but they were stacked so they sat at different heights, if under operation this would act as a heads, hearts, tails separator due to the different weights of the vapors. That way I could set a container large enough to collect the expected quantity of each under its respective condenser and not have to worry about switching containers, or contaminating the hearts jar with tails....Interested to hear thoughts on this.

Nope. This isn't the way it works. Unfortunately, the vapor won't separate like this. Nice try.
ss

Thanks for the idea SS. I may try a spherical plenum for looks, from an s.s. mixing bowl. I didn't think my design would work as far as the vapors seperating into different comdemsers, but figured it was worth a question. However, can you explain a little more, why it wouldn't? I was under the impression it would function similar to how a VM stops production as the the ails come over because they are no longer heavy enough to sink down the takeoff arm.

[shadylane]

I've been looking for a way to get a 2" vapor path for my VM column so I can run at a minimum Reflux Ratio of 1:1

A dimroth condenser would do that.
If your going to have a manifold or a plenum on the output
might as well put a coiled tube, of cold water in it also

[Maxime]

I'm not pushing anywhere near the power to require such a large vapor path. Only 2000-3000 watts. This is a luxury build, not a necessity. I want the large vapor path to be able to pull off at a lower RR, so that if I want to run something with more flavor than the neutral my VM produces, I can run at a lower RR and collect faster rather than detaining the still. This build is more because I have the 1 1/4" already and scored it for $20, and don't have a better use for it. Otherwise it will sit around. If there is a better use for 9 feet of inch and a quarter, clue me in. I'm all ears. But I'd rather put it to use than just let it collect dust. I know that a VM is much more suited to making neutral over flavors, compared to other types, but I don't have the cash to shell out for some 4" copper for a sweet flute build, and the scrap yards around me aren't too friendly to individuals. So this is my idea of adapting what I have to stretch it's production capabilities.

What happened? Have you done it ? Im looking for that kind of result too!!

Envoyé de mon SM-G930W8 en utilisant Tapatalk

[zapata]

Why Maxime? I don't understand why the OP thought it was needed either. There are other far easier, proven ways to achieve the result. First of all, the effect is tiny. Blow through a 2" tube, then blow through a 2" shotgun. Feel any resistance? (Of course technically there is some, but it is miniscule). The main principle of most VM designs isnt about resistance somewhere downstream, it is about area of each path at the split.

Easier proven solitions:
1. Put the VM condenser after a short downturn. The SLIGHT resistance of a liebig or most definitely a shotgun is over powered by gravity. Most proven VM designs already have this.
2. Put a packed section above the VM head. Packing causes a lot more resistance than a pipe reduction, and WILL be sufficient to push more vapor out the VM takeoff. This packing will also give the benefit of acting as a heads column, allowing any lower bp congeners to be trapped up top in the packing/condenser sections while you take off via VM below. Some heads congeners are generated in situ, so you cant really bleed them ALL off at the start. Put a LM tap above this heads column and you have a neutral machine, or an extra trick for flavored spirits. Eg, for whiskey or rum you can super compress fores and early heads with an extra tall column and the LM trap, then take late heads / hearts via a wide open VM with less than 1:1 RR.