My shotgun condenser

Anything cooling/condenser related.

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solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Thanks. Yes i couldn't move it even if i wanted it. I've watched loads of solder video's on youtube to understand it better. It really is a art when well done. Learned a lot.

Got a mail today to tell me my parts order was cancelled as they only sell parts at 5x minimum. I can't use 5x 90° 2" bends, so back to finding a good dealer of copper parts. Grmbl. I spend loads of time searching and calculating cheapest options. So will have to wait for updates.
StillerBoy
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by StillerBoy »

solartje wrote:Thanks. Yes i couldn't move it even if i wanted it. I've watched loads of solder video's on youtube to understand it better. It really is a art when well done. Learned a lot.
Super.. :thumbup:

It sometimes just doesn't paid to tried to get the lowest price.. plus you were dealing with a wholesaler and not a dealer.. with a wholesaler sometime it pays to ask if they have a jobber's price or sell to jobbers..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Was worth a shot :-) found a new one in holland. Even with shipping it's still cheaper. They asked 40€ for one 2" elbow with my local seller, it's sick. Now i'm paying 45€ for both + 5€ shipping. Ordered other parts there as well. Still looking for a step bit second hand. If i have that at lezst i can make the pc. I'm starting to like the building a lot more then i expected!!

First i just wanted a cheap thing to make nice drinks, now i'm already making plans for several columns!! Damn adicting :-)

Still looking for a tig welder. Everytime i ask they say: ti-whut?! :wtf: is it that rare?

Also no 6gauge wire. Above10mm2 they are all multicore. Need to solve that too. At this rate i'll be glad if i fire it up before 2018.

Cost atm:
125€ on gear (soldering gun, bits, etc)
120€ for the column and pc
34€ for the parrot
300€ for the boiler/keg, 6" top ferrule, fill port, sight glasses, 4500w heater and elec/pump.
Everything with TC so parts are interchangable and easy cleaning
My budget is 600€. More then i expected but i haven't found a way to do it cheaper. On the other hand if u drink 200€ bottles of rum it's just 3bottles :twisted:
StillerBoy
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by StillerBoy »

solartje wrote:First i just wanted a cheap thing to make nice drinks, now i'm already making plans for several columns!! Damn adicting
Yes.. This is very addicting hobby.. :thumbup:

There are so many facets to this hobby, and all are very challenging and interesting, be making a wash or a mash, be building or be the distillation process itself.. never a bored moment with this hobby, even after all these years, it just seem like I still have so much to learn.. :)

Enjoy the journey

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Ordered all the copper. Should get it in 2-3 weeks as every 2" piece is special order.

Also found my stepbit ! Guy who bought couple of hundred sets at a liquidation, sold me one new set of 4-12 4-20 and 4-30 for 10€+shipping! Greath deal

Missing 3 parts: the 8mm and 28mm tubes for the parrot
Not to hard to find, just not popped up yet.
And the copperwire for flanges. I asked a road contracter who told me new wires are not solid copper above 10mm2 and if it exists its with 250meters minimum length orders, so forget that. I might have to go international to find gauge 4 wire.
yakattack
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by yakattack »

If you can get 1/4 inch soft copper line ( used as regrigerator line or as feed lines for small applied cessation that need water ( think fridge) you can male them out of that too.. just a thought.
HDNB wrote: The trick here is to learn what leads to a stalled mash....and quit doing that.
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Still haven't recieved my copper and stepbit. I feel like a boy on xmas who can't wait to open his present.

In the meantime i've been planning the cooling.
Ibc 1000l tote black anti uv = 65€ second hand deal.
25€ for the regular white version. Can't decide what to choose. Is the extra 40€ worth it? I would prefere that above chemicals as i'd like to use it for my plants too

Pumps: 2 who caught my eye
- jt-500, 2000 hours, 5m head, 600l/hour, 12v, 60° max, 13€ on ebay
-no name. 30.000hours, 3m head, 240l/hour, 12v, 100° max, 9€ on ebay. 8.6mm OD pipes, so my 10mm ID pipes should fit on it with a clamp without having to buy other adapters. It can be used inline and submerged.

I don't know what there l/hour is at max hight. I like the second one
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Got some time left till my parts arive and i was thinking of making my condenser a piece of art.

I love the transparent condensers, but there wouldn't be much to see. I think transparent is nice to see pkates, reflux etc but maybe not functional in a condenser.

So i started googling and i came up with these two idea's. I'll test it on my parot (just in case i fuck up) but i think this would really make it art.

Idea 1: using pcb copper etching techniques to etch the shell of the condenser. Using press-n-peel paper, laser printer, a moonshine related design (image of popcorn as a tribute?) made in photshop and etching acid.
It works, as i have seen it in yewelry making for making etched beads but never with moonshining.
The 2" outer shell will be etched pure for visual effects 8) , the inner 1/4" pipes will be etched a coil pattern / or maybe golf-ball type of dips? as to increase contact surface for the water and induce turbulence. :clap:

Idea 2: colouring the recessed parts. Either by chemical eaction, oxudation, heat colouring, etc...

Ok that's the idea. Gonna order the parts and do some testing. I think i figured the theory out.

Here twe pictures that shows what i'm after.

I'm pritty exited tbh !! A etched still would look awsome !!! I'm sure within a couple of years everyone will want etched colums. :-)

Ps i have so many crazy idea's i can't wait to post them.
Attachments
An example of colouring. I haven't resourced it enough to know if it's heatresistant. This example is alcohol paint.
An example of colouring. I haven't resourced it enough to know if it's heatresistant. This example is alcohol paint.
Imagine this beeing the 2" shell of the condenser. Etching depth is easily regulated. It reduces the thicknesd, but as there is no pressure buildup it wouldn't compremise the construction.
Imagine this beeing the 2" shell of the condenser. Etching depth is easily regulated. It reduces the thicknesd, but as there is no pressure buildup it wouldn't compremise the construction.
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Badmotivator
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by Badmotivator »

I love the artistic etching idea. Bravo!

I did a little bit of etching on my stainless steel still, though not decorative like your examples. I etched gallon markings on the inside of my boiler and a spiritually-corrective motto on my reflux condenser. :) http://w.homedistiller.org/forum/viewto ... 88&t=56356" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.
StillerBoy
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by StillerBoy »

Solartje.. you are going to have one hell of a time with this hobby..

All the best, and enjoy the journey

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Badmotivator : i know your still very well. Loved the pics and it helped my with the planning of my keg. Hope it turns out as nice as yours.

Mars: i'm already hooked. :oops: There is just no better feeling as the build something functional and beautifull from scrap. I'm an engineer and architect so i guess that mught explain some parts :roll:
Attachments
I had some left over over electric cable for practising easy flanges, had no idea what to do so i made this chain, and probably gonna use it somewhere on the still. No idea where. I'll find something.  <br /><br />Now if my order would arive !!! Grmbl i could actually make the condenser. I've got no patience!!
I had some left over over electric cable for practising easy flanges, had no idea what to do so i made this chain, and probably gonna use it somewhere on the still. No idea where. I'll find something.

Now if my order would arive !!! Grmbl i could actually make the condenser. I've got no patience!!
StillerBoy
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by StillerBoy »

" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

:shock:

Some amazing artists in this forum. Thx for the links
I'm 200% sure hamering is way over my head though. :mrgreen: The advantage over etching is that you don't lose thickness.

I ordered my paper for the etching. Found a cheaper alternative over pnp. Yellow chinese vs blue 0,20€ vs 4€ for a A4. Test i read are ok. It's 95% comparable. Good enough for a still. This is no pcb work. The fe3cl is harder to find for non-pro due to laws here, but i contacted a company and hoping to get positive news.

I'm gonna make me a copper cigar holder to test the etching. Then do the parrot and if it works the 2". :sarcasm:

Any idea's for the design? Still-related images?
I started adapting popcorn's picture. Not sure i could or would use it. Other option is rum related stuff. Maybe even copy my future bottle lable but knowing me i can't wait to make the label to start the etching :lol:
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Got new idea for the label / bottle :oops:
As i'll make very small batches i'd like the bottles to reflect the handwork and complement the etched copper still, so the idea. Add one copper etched medal ON the label stating it's 100% unique and bottle number and a small etched copper ring around the neck. As my label will be black/gold coloured , the copper with darker etched parts will mimick the same colours. Once i get the etching under my belt, making 10 rings and medals should not take that much time but i bet the bottle would look amazing.


EDIT: been working on the label/bottling idea.
Matte black painted bottles, copper tube neck,black wax on top with a stamp.
Label will be made on black paper, and i ordered copper inkjet transfer paper to heat transfer the design on the paper = shiny copper letters, and then the real copper logo etched glued on it. Design is antique inspired (baroque patterns all around 'money type handdrawn designs 'imagine lines and crosses' instead of shades' )
I'll feature a potstil, full moon, cane sugar, and compass)
I like how everything is copper related (my new favorit material) and has that luxury feel ( nit going after a hillbilly look)

I'm probably just nuts lol, but that's how greath (and bad) idea's start. :mrgreen:


Ps i'm posting to much oot things. This more like a diary of all the idea's.... Maybe better to ask a mod to transfer it to a better place?
Attachments
This is an example of the posibilities of copper transfer foil.
This is an example of the posibilities of copper transfer foil.
First sketches of my label :-)
First sketches of my label :-)
Last edited by solartje on Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
StillerBoy
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by StillerBoy »

Life can be fun, especially when it is something one get enjoyment from..

Enjoy the journey

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Got my step drill, cuts as butter but... The holes are not centered. I did print the template, used a nail to center the drill but they are off 2mm when done. I don't have a column drill. Messed up 3 plates already.

I'm also having troubles making them 15mm as the step jumps from 14 to 16. I can flare the tubes to 16mm as a trick on the endplates though, but at the baffles that's not an option.

Should i stack all the plates and drill in one go to be sure they line up?

Gonna cut new plates and try again.
Any idea's on how to solve this off center problem?
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Bushman
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by Bushman »

I would probably try stacking, I used a CNC machine so mine were spot on. Send me a PM if you are anywhere close to me or within the USA and maybe I can mill them for you!
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Sadly i'm in europe bushman.
I'm not giving up yet though!! Just need to come up with a new plan. :D
I bought the step drill just for this job, would be shame to not use it.

but if i give up i'll pm you. They should fit in a envelop and i'll pay for the shipping.
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by Bushman »

My dephlagmater comes in from the top thus 2 extra smaller holes for the water. Couple of pictures showing mine. The second picture shows the finished parts, the third plate on the right has a groove on the outside to fit with a ferrule and accommodate a gasket. The two smaller holes are for water in and out the larger hole in the top is for the vapor to the shotgun condenser.
image.jpeg
image.jpeg
image.jpeg (27.56 KiB) Viewed 3589 times
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Long time no post. A house tovrenovate and a baby and sudenly no time left.


The condenser is on a hold. I bought the wrong 2" . its not 54mm od but 52od. So now it's to small for my 90° angles and ferrules. So guess i'll have to find a new piece of copper.

I'm working on my parrot. Here some pics.
28mm/1" pipe 10" long for the alcoholmeter so it has room to float, 10mm/3/8" for the intake and outtake so i can run the still at max. I don't have the 28 so using the 22mm for the picture

I'm thinking of changing two things vs the standard parrot. I read some have trouble about the flow making the alcoholmeter spin with intake from the side and alcoholmeter going up with intake from the bottom. So i'm cutting shark guils on the bottem half so the intake goes downwards and hopefully no spinning or pushing

I can't find a 28 end cap, so i'm soldering a copper ring
at the bottem right under the intake to reduce the amount of alcohol thats static in the bottem of the normal endcap build.

I f*cked up the bending of the outtake though but not a big deal.

Any remarques before i solder it up?

The drilling and soldering is getting alot better. Getting confident for the condenser. :-) no acces to a shop with fancy lathes, press drill , belt sanders makes this harder.

Today i drilled about 20+ holes with different techniques. Drilled by hand the final hole would not be centered , so i tried different things like pilot holes in 30mm wood, but nothing worked well. The combo that did work :
1/ center punch with nail
2/ pre-pre-drill with 3mm bit
3/ pre-drill with 6mm bit
4/ use the stepbit with the slowest slope (1mm each step up to 12mm max)
I'll be using 12mm tubes instead of 15mm tubes so i have the exact step size. Did some calcs and they have a higher vapor contact surface and are easyer to solder as it's less crowded. Not yet sure if i'll go 6 7 or 8 tubes.

Hopefully next post will have a couple of nice endplates !! I found my first attempts at endplates and rofl.... I'll add them next to the finished plates. I come a long way.
Attachments
IMG_20180520_185956.jpg
My 28mm coin to close the bottem
My 28mm coin to close the bottem
The shark intake in a 22mm instead of 28mm to show the idea
The shark intake in a 22mm instead of 28mm to show the idea
The Baker
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by The Baker »

Solartje said, 'I bought the wrong 2" . its not 54mm od but 52od. So now it's to small for my 90° angles and ferrules.....'


This is a maybe....
Take a very short length of the 52od.
Cut a slit lengthwise in one side. Expand it gently until it fits OVER your 52od.
See if it fits neatly INSIDE the 54od.

I could show this as a flow chart but I dunno how....

It doesn't fit neatly; shitcan the idea (to use the very expressive vocabulary of my sister-in-law).

It fits neatly; bloody beauty!.
Anneal some 52od. Take it to your muffler man. Get him to expand it until it fits firmly on the 52od.
Take it home and use it to sleeve the 52od so that the 54 od fits neatly over it.

Good luck.

Geoff
P. S. It is just possible that a DOUBLE sleeve will do the job.

G
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solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

For the 90° that might work but for the ferrules on the condenser etc that will become tricky. I would have to make a long sleeve over the condenser... No local mufler guy and my skills are pritty shitty I think i'll make my life a hell if i try it.
In theory that could work though. Nice thinking ! Whats the exact od of the ss ferrules. Could i hammer it in? I think my 2" is thin walled.

Edit: printed out some templates and decided to go with 6 tubes of 12mm. Looks to be perfect balance between vapor contact, vaper distance to wall and enough space to solder. At least the 52mm tube is reused for making baffles. Thinking of soldering the tubes with the 'split.solder.in.two.and.make.a.ring.around.vaportubes' technique.
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IMG_20180522_004011.jpg
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Not to shabby :-)

What a difference compared to my first attempt. Clean holes and pritty good centered. 1mm tollerance is fine. The baffles don't need to be super tight anyway.

I'm actually proud and smiling like a kid about a peace of copper with holes in and no one around me understands why hahaha


Ps i forgot to drill the center hole after turning the discs to the right diameter. My idea, insert center pipe small dot of solder and spin the pipe on my drill.
Attachments
Polished and rough cut at 54mm, ready to be turned down to 52mm
Polished and rough cut at 54mm, ready to be turned down to 52mm
The endplates stacked for drilling
The endplates stacked for drilling
The whole line from pipe to baffel
The whole line from pipe to baffel
My attempt of 2017 on the right. Lol
My attempt of 2017 on the right. Lol
I think this is as good as i can get it. 5 more to go
I think this is as good as i can get it. 5 more to go
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

The spinning didn't work well,
So i scratched the 52mm outline with a wooden drill bitbthat has a very sharp point, cut and hand filed it.
The gap is now <0,2mm on the outside.
Hope it's close enough for the solder to close.
Waiting to find some used copper now for the shell on the local sites. The one i have is actually 53mm OD, 51mm ID. Why make a tube 1mm to thin. Sounds not much but enough for the 90° to wobble. 1 freaky mm.

Question: how much of a gap in between the endplate holes and the innertubes can solder fill? On the hotside i can flare to make them fit but on the cold end as the innertubes need to stick out a bit its hard to flare the tube 4-5cm deep?

I tried to stick them all together and 0,2mm tollerence is way to much to make it all fit. I'll grind the inner baffles out a bit to make them go on easyer. I wish i had a shop lol. This is a pita.
Attachments
IMG_20180523_223552.jpg
solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Been braking my head on this 2" piece. It's gonna take forever to find a new piece .

I still i have no idea what type of pype mine is , as it's 53mm od wich fits no type i know. I did the research on all the types us (k,l,m,dwv) and eur (x,y,z or the new en1057) and the different ferrule types. 53mm od pipe doesn't exist but I have one lol.

I won't be using ss as i don't have acces to welding, map or whatever and my small diy solder setup i have won't cut it. So there is copper and brass. Some or type that fits over the tube luke ez flange (54 ID) and some are to fit in the tube 50,8mm OD. I'd prefer brass as it's cheaper.
Anyone has a link to 2" od brass long ferrules that ship to europe?



The good news is , my tube is 53mm with 1mm thick so 51mm ID ! So i can use regular ferrules for tri clamp @ 50,8. That doesnt solve my 54mm knee's but i'll have to buy a very small piece only instead of 5-6feet. And it needs to be 54mmx1,5 or the ferrule won't match. Good i checked that before buying. I need Just enough to make the 180° bend and ferrules. I can buy 1feet on ebay.

To bad there are no 54mm OD ferrules you can solder straight in the knees !
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Bought the last big pieces for the still.

Ss ferrules is no option as i can only softsolder, and brass was an option but they only exist in the version that goes around the tube so i wouldn't be able to use my 53mm tube and brass still can have small traces of lead so...

6 full copper ferrules coming my way soon :thumbup: with ptfe gaskets, triclamps and he even had a small 1ft piece of 54x1,5 for my 90° knees. Spended more then i wanted but it will make my life easyer. Making my own flanges i wouldn't trust the thing to be strong enough and the easy soldering will be worth the 100€.

The 180 bend and condenser can be used on any type of styll, (future flute, reflux. Etc) so I don't mind spending a bit more in them.

So only left : 12mm innertubes (waiting for local seller to reply), 1ft of 28mm for the parrot and the 54 to 15mm bell condenser.

Getting closer !
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still_stirrin
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by still_stirrin »

solartje wrote:...6 full copper ferrules coming my way soon with ptfe gaskets, triclamps and he even had a small 1ft piece of 54x1,5 for my 90° knees. Spended more then i wanted...
there's an old saying that goes, "buy once...cry once". You will be very happy with your purchase. Good job.
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

Been studying shell tube heat exchangers and these are the optimal settings of the condenser. Ideal design can increase heat exchange by 300% for the same length ! Wich is huge

So the parameters:
Pattern : triangular over square (so 4 tubes isn't ideal, better go for 5 or 7 tubes in triangle pattern. And ideal the tubes are not in a circle but triangular pattern as in my design and use a tube in the middle.)

Angle : (line between two tubes vs intake) is optimal at 30° so it's important how you rotate the inner shell depending on the water input.

Pitch : ideal distance between tubes for triangular pattern is ideally between 1.25 and 1.50 OD . the lower the better. As i'm using 12mm od tubes = 16mm min and 18mm pitch. Checked my design and i'm at 18mm pitch.

Baffle spacing: most important factor. Taking into account pressure drops of the coolant and max lineair flows. The minimal distance is 0,2 shell iD but not less then 50mm and the maximal distance = id shell. So for my 51mm shell my ideal baffle spacing is between 50 and 51mm. This is alot closer then everyone builds them. As i want cooling tubes on the same side i'll need a odd number of baffles.

So 9 baffles at 50mm distance = 500mm shell + 2 endplates. Will be overpowered cooler for 3500kw heater but it will make it possible to condens the vapor AND define the outcome temperature so it's at 20° c to get accurate proof reading in the parrot / use less water or smaller water reservoir.

Baffle cut : between 25% and 35%, with 25% giving highest result for little more pressure drop wich i'm not concerned.

Spacing. It's actually good to have a small gap between the baffles and the shell to prevent stationary water behind the baffles and increase turbulence. So i'm gonna cut my baffles at 49mm so there is 1mm of gap around them. Will make my life easier

I know you probably ask, why bother it's overkill allready? Well why not. Might as well build it as good as you can no?

So guess i'll be making more baffles :-D
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solartje
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by solartje »

still_stirrin wrote:
solartje wrote:...6 full copper ferrules coming my way soon with ptfe gaskets, triclamps and he even had a small 1ft piece of 54x1,5 for my 90° knees. Spended more then i wanted...
there's an old saying that goes, "buy once...cry once". You will be very happy with your purchase. Good job.
ss
That's exactly what i was thinking. A condenser is already a pita to solder, imagine acing it and then destroying it when soldering the ferrules.
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Twisted Brick
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Re: My shotgun condenser

Post by Twisted Brick »

solartje wrote: A condenser is already a pita to solder, imagine acing it and then destroying it when soldering the ferrules.
There's a number of ways to solder a shotgun successfully. After much indecision, I decided to go with Jimbo's recommendation, and soldered the vapor tubes and ferrules all in one go. It was easy-peasy, and sealed up solidly. I would imagine copper ferrules would make it even easier.
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