Why Copper in Liebig?

[CrazyCanadian]

Is there any reason, besides it looks great, for the outer pipe in a liebig condenser to be copper? Since it never touches the product, can I make that outer pipe out of something cheaper and easier to work with. Something like PVC or galvanized pipe, etc? Sched 40 PVC can handle some high temps and Sched 80 can handle even higher.

[OtisT]

Is there any reason, besides it looks great, for the outer pipe in a liebig condenser to be copper? Since it never touches the product, can I make that outer pipe out of something cheaper and easier to work with. Something like PVC or galvanized pipe, etc? Sched 40 PVC can handle some high temps and Sched 80 can handle even higher.

There is no reason the outer pipe needs to be Copper or Stainless. That part never touches product, so it's no different in that regard than the cooling hoses that feed your condenser. Just like a worm condenser, which is copper in a bucket of water.

All that said, trying to get a good seal between mixed materials could be a challenge for a liebig. Also consider that the top of the liebig condenser can get hot. A cooling system failure during a run could be dangerous and leaks down the condenser could ruin your product.

Good Luck Otis

[jon1163]

Besides the seal on different types of metals you could also consider that Metals will expand and contract at different rates when the heat up and cool down?

[thecroweater]

For sure you can use anything but as others mentioned you get some challenges with seals and maintenance which begs the question, is the few dollars you might save worth it? I would think a cleaver way to be frugal would be to search the scrap dealers

[Kareltje]

Oh well, I have a ss condenser coil which works quite good in air: 9 coils of about 1 m and 15 mm OD.
I can put a plastic coil around it and glue some ends at that to make a coiled Liebig condenser. I guess it will take me some effort to get connections that do not leak. But what is the problem with leaking water joints? The mess, maybe. But that is a nuisance, not a (safety) problem.
So indeed: why copper in a Liebig?

[thecroweater]

Oh well, I have a ss condenser coil which works quite good in air: 9 coils of about 1 m and 15 mm OD.
I can put a plastic coil around it and glue some ends at that to make a coiled Liebig condenser. I guess it will take me some effort to get connections that do not leak. But what is the problem with leaking water joints? The mess, maybe. But that is a nuisance, not a (safety) problem.
So indeed: why copper in a Liebig?

Sigh, a catastrophic failure might culminate I to a safety issue but yeah that is less likely without warning to happen so it it not a priority safety issue which is why folks are suggesting it might not be the best way rather than saying don't do it. Coolant spraying out all over the dern shop is a bit of an issue for some folks

[JellybeanCorncob]

Sweating copper is real easy if you have someone who knows how to show you proper Techniques. Copper pipe isn't that expensive till you get into the larger diameter pipes and fittings. Go with copper you won't regret it.
JBC

[CrazyCanadian]

Getting a good seal and expansion rates of different material are good points I hadn't thought of. That's why I am here asking questions.

OK. So if i stay with copper how much space do I realistically need for the water between the product tube and the larger exterior tube? The 2" copper I bought for my column was quite pricey. I was planning on a product tube of 3/4" then narrowed to 1/2". Not sure a 1" pipe over that 3/4 is enough.

[hpby98]

Getting a good seal and expansion rates of different material are good points I hadn't thought of. That's why I am here asking questions.

OK. So if i stay with copper how much space do I realistically need for the water between the product tube and the larger exterior tube? The 2" copper I bought for my column was quite pricey. I was planning on a product tube of 3/4" then narrowed to 1/2". Not sure a 1" pipe over that 3/4 is enough.

1 over the 3/4 should be plenty

I did a dual Liebig and did 3/4 over 1/2 for each of them, at 36” long

It’s a double barreled. Haven’t seen another. Knocks down 4500 watts no problem

[JellybeanCorncob]

Just did a liebeg search: lots of stuff!
Here’s one. http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... s#p6975283
JBC

[JellybeanCorncob]

This is the one I copied: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9247
JBC

[jonnys_spirit]

I did this one:

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=69160

1/2 x 3/4 x 36

Knocks down 5500W no prob.

Cheers!
-j

[CrazyCanadian]

Thanks all. I think I am on the right track. Plan on a copper outer jacket of 1" with a 3/4" stepped down to 1/2" inner product tube. Will wrap wire around the 3/4" length. Probably would not do much around the 1/2" length. I'll add a removable connection at the top so I can disconnect it from the column when not in use.

[OtisT]

I'll add a removable connection at the top so I can disconnect it from the column when not in use.

Consider an elbow above the Liebig, then a copper Union fitting for the disconnect. Having an elbow between the union fitting and the Liebig will allow you to adjust the slope of your Liebig.

Otis.

[zapata]

Harry pulled off a hose over copper liebig 10 years or so ago. Dad300 has one with a pcvc shell. Both and others are documented on the site here. It's certainly doable.

Don't underestimate a water leak though. Water is obviously bad if it gets in electrical connections. A catastrophic water leak leads to vapor shooting out the end. Whatever you make, make sure it works reliably.

I've always found 3/4 over 1/2 copper easy cheap and sufficient.

[CrazyCanadian]

Decided to go with copper but already ran into a problem at the hardware store. As I understand the designs I have looked at, the Internal product pipe (say 1/2") is supposed to go right through the Ts on each end of the external water jacket (say 3/4" or 1"). That is how it seals so well. I found the 3/4, 3/4, 1/2 T but the 1/2" pipe is not meant to go into the 3/4" end of the T and through and past the 1/2" end of the T. Am I missing something? The solutions as i see it are 1) find a different T that does allow a pipe to go right though it, 2) modify the T so I can push the 1/2" pipe right through it or 3) Solder a 1/2" pipe to the inside of the T (its not made for this and the connection is going to be sloppy) and then continue the 1/2 past the T by then soldering another 1/2 pipe into the T as it is designed for. What am I doing wrong?

[jonnys_spirit]

You need to file off the ridge (or stop) on the inside of the T so you can push teh 1/2" all the way through. Then solder all the way around to make it water tight.

Dry fit everything first and make sure lengths are all good.

I also soldered a valve to the output and threaded couplings to the input t make it easier to connect up and control. Before that I simply used a hose sprayer that I could loosen / tighten to control flow and dumped it into the utility sink.

Cheers!
-j

[Antler24]

Decided to go with copper but already ran into a problem at the hardware store. As I understand the designs I have looked at, the Internal product pipe (say 1/2") is supposed to go right through the Ts on each end of the external water jacket (say 3/4" or 1"). That is how it seals so well. I found the 3/4, 3/4, 1/2 T but the 1/2" pipe is not meant to go into the 3/4" end of the T and through and past the 1/2" end of the T. Am I missing something? The solutions as i see it are 1) find a different T that does allow a pipe to go right though it, 2) modify the T so I can push the 1/2" pipe right through it or 3) Solder a 1/2" pipe to the inside of the T (its not made for this and the connection is going to be sloppy) and then continue the 1/2 past the T by then soldering another 1/2 pipe into the T as it is designed for. What am I doing wrong?

Those T's you found will work! There's a small dimple inside the T to prevent the pipe from sliding right through. 5 minutes with a file and your problem should be solved! Just file down that "dimple".

[Kareltje]

Yes, and the trick of filing out the inner rim can be used again to make a one-hole-thumper.

I take it you left the idea of a non-copper mantle for your Liebig?

[jon1163]

Round file for the win

[Saltbush Bill]

easier to drill it out if you have the right size drill bit.

[Twisted Brick]

So indeed: why copper in a Liebig?

The biggest drawback of the liebig is the length needed to work. Despite the increased cost and complexity to build a shotty, this has to be the primary reason 'stillers go the extra step to do so.

There may be a liebig here with a stainless steel vapor tube, but the heat transfer coefficient between copper and stainless is quite compelling.

[Antler24]

easier to drill it out if you have the right size drill bit.

Not really. It's a 1/2" hole for the pipe to go into with a 1-2mm "bump" to stop the pipe from going all the way in. Can't imagine trying to drill it.

[thecroweater]

Vice clamp and run a 1/2 bit through less ya got a drill press. That said the last ones I did were 3/4 to 1/2 with 1/2 tee and at the time I couldn't find my 1/2 bit so it was quicker for me to clamp it and run the rat tail through than go to town for a bit, naturally I found it the next day

[cob]

Vice clamp and run a 1/2 bit through less ya got a drill press. That said the last ones I did were 3/4 to 1/2 with 1/2 tee and at the time I couldn't find my 1/2 bit so it was quicker for me to clamp it and run the rat tail through than go to town for a bit, naturally I found it the next day

1/2" bit would have done you no good at all crow. 1/2" us copper is 5/8" on the outside, hence

the 1/2" section of the fitting is 5/8" inside. your file, or a dremel is much safer than a drill bit.

and your likely to warp or crush your copper fitting in a vice especially if that 5/8" drill bit binds.

[jonnys_spirit]

I worked a pair of T’s for days with a dremel. Bleh...

5min with the round file and copper dust was flyin everywhere. Fìnì !

Cheers!
-johann

[cob]

I worked a pair of T’s for days with a dremel. Bleh...

5min with the round file and copper dust was flyin everywhere. Fìnì !

Cheers!
-johann

carbide rotary files are available in sizes that fit dremel tools and larger,

they cut copper like butter and last a very long time.

[zapata]

I think we are arguing about nothing here. I've drilled out fittings with the right sized bit, and a too small bit with some wiggling and side cutting. I've used a round file, and a dremel (don't bother with a cheap sandpaper drum, use something that can actually grind). None of em really stand out as difficult. If I had one to do today I'd probably just go with whatever tool found my hand first.

Of course the right sized drill bit finishes the job in 30 seconds, but it's not like filing copper for 5 minutes is unpleasant. Both jobs can be done with the fitting in your hand if you can't figure out how to hold it in a vise. I'm sure that's probably dangerous. A stub of pipe in the side tee will keep the drill from torquing it out of your hand, but if it does, geez, just unscrew it and go again.

This isn't a veey hard job however you tackle it.

[rubber duck]

Is there any reason, besides it looks great, for the outer pipe in a liebig condenser to be copper? Since it never touches the product, can I make that outer pipe out of something cheaper and easier to work with. Something like PVC or galvanized pipe, etc? Sched 40 PVC can handle some high temps and Sched 80 can handle even higher.

As long as your not using your next mash as cooling water you could use a lead pipe I guess.

I hope there is some reason for this question....

Hey now I'm not rad most of the time.

[Saltbush Bill]

easier to drill it out if you have the right size drill bit.

Not really. It's a 1/2" hole for the pipe to go into with a 1-2mm "bump" to stop the pipe from going all the way in. Can't imagine trying to drill it.

Each to their own, Ive done it both ways, have you ? , I know which I prefer.