lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Anything cooling/condenser related.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
aaa186
Novice
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:29 am

lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by aaa186 »

and I cant figure why
User avatar
fizzix
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3698
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:08 pm

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by fizzix »

So what % were you pulling out?
Start simple ---is reflux condenser water flowing?
User avatar
Expat
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2245
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:58 pm

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by Expat »

This happens to me all the time, usually associated with the boiler containing no alcohol :D :lol:
_____________________
EXPAT

Current boiler and pot head
Cross flow condenser
Modular 3" Boka - pics tbd
___________________
aaa186
Novice
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:29 am

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by aaa186 »

I always run over 180 proof and water is running,,,,and in the keg boiler with a mile high 2 inch reflux coluum with a one foot extention,,, I have around 17%acl. in 12 gallons of mash in the keg...I have always run on ez street till this has biten me in the az...I'm about going nutz…
ive done everything I know,,, but i do need help
User avatar
Expat
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2245
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:58 pm

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by Expat »

And its turned on?

Going to need more details to be of assistance... take off rate? abv?
_____________________
EXPAT

Current boiler and pot head
Cross flow condenser
Modular 3" Boka - pics tbd
___________________
StillerBoy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:27 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by StillerBoy »

aaa186 wrote:I have around 17%acl. in 12 gallons of mash in the keg.
What does 17% abv mean, or asked a different way, how do you know you had 17% in your mash... or was it low wine reduced from a stripped run.. or you were doing a one past..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
aaa186
Novice
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:29 am

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by aaa186 »

I saved 9 quarts of tails and I ran it with 10 gallons of water,, the run before that I ran 13 gallons of mash with 34 pounds of sugar and after cleared,, I put roughly a little over 12 gallons of mash in boiler,,,, which is what I have done for years,,, I am puzzled
User avatar
cranky
Master of Distillation
Posts: 6505
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:18 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by cranky »

Could your reflux or product condenser be leaking internally watering down your product?
StillerBoy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:27 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by StillerBoy »

aaa186 wrote:I saved 9 quarts of tails and I ran it with 10 gallons of water,, the run before that I ran 13 gallons of mash with 34 pounds of sugar and after cleared,
9 qts dissolved with 10 gal water, my estimate is a very low abv.. tails are very low in abv, maybe 20% overall.. so 10 gal of water in 9 qt tails, very low in my estimate. so you may not of had any alcohol in that run.. the run time must have been very quick..

34 lbs of sugar in 13 gal of water for a sugar wash, that is like 2.6 lbs per gal, your yeast must be having a hard time, unless you are using turbo yeast, and even at that, that high.. the norm for sugar shine is a pound per gal or there about..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
aaa186
Novice
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:29 am

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by aaa186 »

do u mean,,,leaking through my stainless steel,,, or do u mean ,,, leaking down past my copper packing

I have used 34 lbs of sugar per 13 gallons,,,many many times,,,, many many years and always got over 180 proof
User avatar
bluefish_dist
Distiller
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:13 am
Location: Eastern Ia

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by bluefish_dist »

If the pc has a small leak, you will be adding water to the takeoff. Easy to check. Just fill with water and apply a little pressure. If you have a leak, you will know it.
Formerly
Dsp-CO-20051
StillerBoy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:27 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by StillerBoy »

aaa186 wrote:I have used 34 lbs of sugar per 13 gallons,,,many many times,,,, many many years and always got over 180 proof
Just trying to understand your process and help, but.. your're the expert..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
aaa186
Novice
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:29 am

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by aaa186 »

lolol if I was a expert,,, I would not be asking for help,,, ive run a lot but just the set up that I told u mostly,,, that's y I cant figure what is wrong..
l'm going 2 try now to see if I have a leak
User avatar
bluefish_dist
Distiller
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:13 am
Location: Eastern Ia

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by bluefish_dist »

If you had a thermometer at the head, it could have helped trouble shoot the issue. If you had a low temp (high proof) then it's definitely a leak in the pc. If the temp would not get low enough then it was either a wash or still operating condition issue.

If you are modular and installing the plates each time, check to make sure they are staggered. If they are not you won't get the same abv. Did that once by accident and couldn't figure out why the still wouldn't work.
Formerly
Dsp-CO-20051
aaa186
Novice
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:29 am

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by aaa186 »

the temp would not get low enough,, now i'm not getting smart with u,,, I have run the same way as always but I think iam,,,tell me some of the issues u think,,,, by the way,,, I am using a mile hi,,, 2 inch pc with a one foot extentsion,with copper mesh and rings,,, also I have a thermometer at the top
User avatar
cranky
Master of Distillation
Posts: 6505
Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 3:18 pm
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by cranky »

Personally I see 4 possibilities.

1= You have a leaking condenser watering down the product

2= You have a leak somewhere else letting your product escape to the atmosphere

3= You have low ABV in your boiler

4= You have a clogged water line to your RC or something else causing the RC not condensing the vapor giving you no reflux
User avatar
bluefish_dist
Distiller
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:13 am
Location: Eastern Ia

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by bluefish_dist »

aaa186 wrote:the temp would not get low enough,, now i'm not getting smart with u,,, I have run the same way as always but I think iam,,,tell me some of the issues u think,,,, by the way,,, I am using a mile hi,,, 2 inch pc with a one foot extentsion,with copper mesh and rings,,, also I have a thermometer at the top
Was the head temp the same as previous runs? That is an indicator of abv. If temp was higher, then abv is lower. If the abv was lower at the head, then it's not a pc leak causing the issue.

When you say ran the same, was the potential abv of the wash the same? Same opening gravity and finishing gravity?

See post above for possible solutions.
Formerly
Dsp-CO-20051
Pikey
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2444
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:29 pm
Location: At the edge of the Wild Wood

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by Pikey »

Ya got ya water pipes connected the wrong way round ?
aaa186
Novice
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:29 am

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by aaa186 »

water lines are connected right
head temp. was higher and abv was lower
potential abv of wash was the same and same open gravity and finishing gravity
in crankys list,,, only possible problem that I see,,,is,,,rc not condensing the vapor enough, giving not enough reflux
User avatar
Swedish Pride
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2643
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:16 am
Location: Emerald Isle

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by Swedish Pride »

that still is the one with just a cork blocking the top of the column right?
Any chance the cork was not down far enough and all your vapour got out that way?
Image
Don't be a dick
Pikey
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2444
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:29 pm
Location: At the edge of the Wild Wood

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by Pikey »

aaa186 wrote:water lines are connected right
head temp. was higher and abv was lower
....
That is normal with a Coolant Moderated still - that's why I asked.

The water goes into the cooling jacket First and the Liebig second - right ?

It still has All the packing in to the top of the water jacket - right ?

Have you tried turning the water UP ?

[Edit - I don't know where you are - but if it's coming up to summer, the temperature of your cooling water might be higher than it was - I have that problem over here.]
User avatar
bluefish_dist
Distiller
Posts: 1502
Joined: Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:13 am
Location: Eastern Ia

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by bluefish_dist »

aaa186 wrote:water lines are connected right
head temp. was higher and abv was lower
potential abv of wash was the same and same open gravity and finishing gravity
in crankys list,,, only possible problem that I see,,,is,,,rc not condensing the vapor enough, giving not enough reflux
That says you were not running it the same. Head temp and abv are inversely related, so a higher head temp is lower proof. That means you ran the still differently, as stated above it could be cooling water temp is higher, I get a summer to winter change. On a basic level the reflux rate was lower or heat was higher, thus the abv is lower. since the head temp is proportional to abv, you can drive the still based on the temperature. If you want higher proof, lower temp, lower proof, higher temp. Just realize it takes a min or two for any adjustment to take effect.
Formerly
Dsp-CO-20051
User avatar
Expat
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 2245
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:58 pm

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by Expat »

Now that I think about it, I've seen this situation before.

Essentially the problem is this, a rogue angel decided your boiler would be a great place to party for awhile and take an overly large share of your shine.

Two next steps 1) if possible, thoroughly rinse your still with a solution (1-3) of anti-holy water and dechlorinated water.

2) ferment a new batch of wash, accurately record it's SG and FG, run it and confirm the results.

Likely you'll be fine.
_____________________
EXPAT

Current boiler and pot head
Cross flow condenser
Modular 3" Boka - pics tbd
___________________
aaa186
Novice
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:29 am

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by aaa186 »

expat,,, u r reading my mind [whats left of it] im goona start from scratch and very carefully start with my mash and do everything by the book and check everything till the run is over,,, then that's when I hope u r right,,, it will b awhile but I will let u all know the verdict

thank all of u,, uall were helpful
StillerBoy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:27 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: lost my high proof in my reflux colum

Post by StillerBoy »

aaa186 wrote:I saved 9 quarts of tails and I ran it with 10 gallons of water
Expat stated vary similar to what I stated at the very begin.. 9 qts of tails (which are low in alcohol to start with) reduced in 10 water, went run will not give you any alcohol in the 180 proof range.. they are tails.. plus the run will be over very quickly..

But you keep comparing that run (tails run) with a regular run.. 2 different animal behavior in the pot/boiler..

Don't take my word for it, save the same amount of tails again and reduce them with 10 gal water, and see what you get..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
Post Reply