water usage

[stillvodka]

Hello
Do anybody know how much water liters/gallons, would be used to complete a Run through a condencer on avarage

[NZChris]

With an undersized condenser, lots.
With an oversized condenser, bugger all.

[stillvodka]

With an undersized condenser, lots.
With an oversized condenser, bugger all.

Ha ha
i think i worded that all wrong, Ill have another go,

What i meant was, to complete a run of say 5 gallon, what would say average cooling water usage be?

[NZChris]

If the water is really warm, lots.
If the water is really cold, bugger all.

[stillvodka]

ok, yes i get it

So I will do experiment ,try if I can get some sort of average, with water tempeture noted, aint going to hurt having a go at it, wouldnt suprise me though if someone has already done it.

[NZChris]

It can be worked out with a calculator if you have enough numbers to put into the equation, but, "5 gallons", just isn't enough. It also depends on if you are talking about a stripping run or a spirit run because the abv of the charge makes a difference too. So does the type of still, pot or reflux.

[Yummyrum]

NZchris is kinda right . It all depends n how efficient your condenser is and how hard you pump it through .

Having said that , I’ve been experimenting with pushing the liebig to the critical point where its got the temperature gradient happening ..... so its cold at the bottom , warm in the middle and stinking hot at the top if you run your hand along it .
At this point the alcohol is very hot and if the coolant flow is reduced anymore then steam starts to exit the liebig ..... so you can say this is the absolute minimum coolant flow you can use .

Not knowing your wash AVB or condenser efficientcy as a general rule I would say expect to use at minimum 2x your wash size so n your case at least 10 gallons on a stripping run . This will vary as your wash could be anywhere from 5% to 15% and your coolant supply temp could be anywhere from 10°C to 30°C ..... there are so many variables

Again as NZChris says , on a reflux run it will be a totally different ball game .

[bilgriss]

It's dependent on

The size of your still and volume of wash
The size and efficiency of your condenser
The temperature of your water
Rate of flow
Your preferences in recycling the water with another cooling source.
Whether it's a stripping run or spirit run.


Having said that, I run about a six gallon charge in an eight gallon still, and use anywhere from 10-20 gallons cooling water with a three foot liebeg condensor. I'm using tap water from a cooler, and my water temperature varies throughout the year.

[StillerBoy]

On a stripping run of 7.5 gal, I run my water flow rate at about 1L per minute, and the run takes 1.25 hr or 75L or 18.5 gals..

On a spirit run of 7.5 gal using the thumper, I run my water flow rate at just under .5L per minute, and the run takes 2.25 hr or 67.5L or 15.5 gals..

On a spirit run of 7 gal, I run my water flow rate at about .75L per minute, and the run takes 3.25 hr or 109.5L or 27.5 gals..

Those flow rate are pretty well the same winter or summer at around 65 - 67*F water temp from the tap..

Mars

[Desvio]

I run a 55gal reservoir for cooling my 8gal pot, sitting in the garage it cools down to about 50-60f degrees between use for work chilling and distilling. I can usually get two stripping runs out of it before it starts to get too warm, I often throw a frozen gallon jug in it mid run, works great. For reflux i keep 2-3 frozen jugs handy to keep temps in check, pretty happy with this setup so far.

[Kareltje]

I do not use any water on a run. I use a very long, winded cooler sitting in the air and I run slow.
Takes more time, but not more energy and no water at all.
I I want to speed up, I use wet rags on my cooler, using the evaporation.
And that system can be enhanced.

[acfixer69]

I think that if using gas to heat, the typical boiler would waste more energy do to heat loss over a longer run then a circulator pump in a closed water system. But where you live will be a large factor.

[stillvodka]

ok, brilliant, thanks everyone

The reason behind me asking, is i have been running a pot still with worm in a 200liter container , worked really well no heating up problems at all, main reason for this was because i now live in a house with a water meter, I have now built reflux still and bit worried on connecting it up to the mains water for cooling, doing abit of research on the price of mains tap water in my area , it looks like I have been over thinking on the price, @ 1 cubic meter costing £1.70 it looks though I dont have much to worry about.

[stillvodka]

I do not use any water on a run. I use a very long, winded cooler sitting in the air and I run slow.
Takes more time, but not more energy and no water at all.
I I want to speed up, I use wet rags on my cooler, using the evaporation.
And that system can be enhanced.

That seems like a good way of cooling set up you have, But is it noisey with those fans running? where I work we have a few cnc lathes going and they give off quite a hum drone sound

[Yummyrum]

A cubic meter of water is 1000 liters ..... unless you have a 4” reflux still with 8kw under it I doubt you would come anywhere close to using that much water on a run .

Incidentally your water is cheap . I had to get my tank filled last weekend . Waterman charged me $230 for 12,000 liters

[Kareltje]

I do not use any water on a run. I use a very long, winded cooler sitting in the air and I run slow.
Takes more time, but not more energy and no water at all.
I I want to speed up, I use wet rags on my cooler, using the evaporation.
And that system can be enhanced.

That seems like a good way of cooling set up you have, But is it noisey with those fans running? where I work we have a few cnc lathes going and they give off quite a hum drone sound

I don't have a fan, just a spiral:

I just run slow! According to some measurments I did lately it loses about 0.3 to 0.4 W/cm length. Ss spiral, OD 15 mm, total length about 9 m.
Someone on this forum posted an improvement: he put the spiral in a large pan with soms water, wrapped it with cloth and with a small pump he circulated the water from the bottom to the top, thus keeping the cloth wet all the time. For further enhancment he had a fan in the centre.

[stillvodka]

I do not use any water on a run. I use a very long, winded cooler sitting in the air and I run slow.
Takes more time, but not more energy and no water at all.
I I want to speed up, I use wet rags on my cooler, using the evaporation.
And that system can be enhanced.

That seems like a good way of cooling set up you have, But is it noisey with those fans running? where I work we have a few cnc lathes going and they give off quite a hum drone sound

I don't have a fan, just a spiral:

2016-04-10-001c.jpg

I just run slow! According to some measurments I did lately it loses about 0.3 to 0.4 W/cm length. Ss spiral, OD 15 mm, total length about 9 m.
Someone on this forum posted an improvement: he put the spiral in a large pan with soms water, wrapped it with cloth and with a small pump he circulated the water from the bottom to the top, thus keeping the cloth wet all the time. For further enhancment he had a fan in the centre.

Sorry for the assumption, saying that though it would work a bit better, but if you find it works ok, thats all good!
I confused you with someone else on here, they had a long box with a row of fans running, some reason thought that was you

[stillvodka]

A cubic meter of water is 1000 liters ..... unless you have a 4” reflux still with 8kw under it I doubt you would come anywhere close to using that much water on a run .

Incidentally your water is cheap . I had to get my tank filled last weekend . Waterman charged me $230 for 12,000 liters

Where I come from, spiders can never set up homes in gutters or drain pipes water water everywhere

[NZChris]

Thanks to your query, for the first time ever, I have worked out how much water I used for a gin type run today. 2600ml of cooling water over four hours to condense 570ml of 78% from a 1300ml charge of 43% plus the juices from an unknown quantity of added fruit. It is about twice the volume of water of the original charge.

That means that I have to start with more than twice the volume of the original charge in order to finish a gin type run without having to go down to the creek and fetch more water.

I hope that helps.

[stillvodka]

Thanks to your query, for the first time ever, I have worked out how much water I used for a gin type run today. 2600ml of cooling water over four hours to condense 570ml of 78% from a 1300ml charge of 43% plus the juices from an unknown quantity of added fruit. It is about twice the volume of water of the original charge.

That means that I have to start with more than twice the volume of the original charge in order to finish a gin type run without having to go down to the creek and fetch more water.

I hope that helps.

chris, 1300ml, that is a very small scale run, Is this right?

[NZChris]

Tiny. One bottle of finished product.

The cooling water from my large runs goes down the drain or onto the garden. I economize on cooling water by controlling the temperature of the condensate by automating the cooling water flow.

[Kareltje]

I confused you with someone else on here, they had a long box with a row of fans running, some reason thought that was you

No problem. They had a viable solution too.

[Kareltje]

For what it is worth (1 experiment is no experiment).
Last year when stripping a 60-liter mash with a Liebig-condensor and recycling the water.
I ended with some 60 liters of warm water in my bathtub. I spilled some 40 liters of water, I recycled about 600 liters.
I stilled some 60 liters of 10 % ABV and got about 20 liters of 30 % ABV.

When you have a vessel of about 1000 liters (1 m3) with a worm in it, this should suffice to run my 60 liters. Without any spillage of water, for the amount of water at the beginning is equal to the amount of water at the end. And waiting one day will lose all the heat.

[The Baker]

Kareltje said, 'And waiting one day will lose all the heat."
And in the meantime you can have a nice warm bath.

Geoff