Dephleg preferential condensing

[LWTCS]

Then do the same thing with the shorty.

Do it Bill, do it. Do it it Bill, do it. Do it Bill do it.

Wait where's Shady? He loves to experiment with experiments.

[tubbsy]

LWTCS, would you need to preheat the coolant so it doesn't enter too cool?

Edit: actually, if it's recirculating then it wouldn't matter anyway. Ignore me.

[LWTCS]

LWTCS, would you need to preheat the coolant so it doesn't enter too cool?

Yes. As mentioned coolant discharge temps would need to mimic what would ordinarily be the liquid temp on the plate of the base line run.
Temps of the coolant are predicated upon flow rate.

Edit: ah so no preheat nessesary though might be helpful for achieving more rapid equilibrium.

[LWTCS]

LWTCS, would you need to preheat the coolant so it doesn't enter too cool?

Edit: actually, if it's recirculating then it wouldn't matter anyway. Ignore me.

Was a legit question.
Hopefully not a recirculated cooling circuit. Test would need cooling medium to be stable through out the run in order to properly understand any adjustments to flow rates.

[tubbsy]

Was a legit question.
Hopefully not a recirculated cooling circuit. Test would need cooling medium to be stable through out the run in order to properly understand any adjustments to flow rates.

Was thinking as far as recirc goes having something like a radiator with a thermofan or some other heat exchanger to maintain a set entry temperature to the dephleg. Possibly over-complicating things

[shadylane]

Wait where's Shady? He loves to experiment with experiments.

Not me, I'm too busy drilling several hundred 2mm holes
I figure by the time I've broken another couple dozen drill bits. I might be done

[LWTCS]

Was a legit question.
Hopefully not a recirculated cooling circuit. Test would need cooling medium to be stable through out the run in order to properly understand any adjustments to flow rates.

Was thinking as far as recirc goes having something like a radiator with a thermofan or some other heat exchanger to maintain a set entry temperature to the dephleg. Possibly over-complicating things

Definitely adds a variable. Someone capable of doing the maths could find the optimal entry temps. Though it is the discharge temps that will have the greatest impact.

[LWTCS]

Wait where's Shady? He loves to experiment with experiments.

Not me, I'm too busy drilling several hundred 2mm holes
I figure by the time I've broken another couple dozen drill bits. I might be done

Well,,,but,,,,what about your other hand ( that you clearly are not fully utilizing)?

[LWTCS]

Was a legit question.
Hopefully not a recirculated cooling circuit. Test would need cooling medium to be stable through out the run in order to properly understand any adjustments to flow rates.

Was thinking as far as recirc goes having something like a radiator with a thermofan or some other heat exchanger to maintain a set entry temperature to the dephleg. Possibly over-complicating things

Definitely adds a variable. Someone capable of doing the maths could find the optimal entry temps. Though it is the discharge temps that will have the greatest impact.

There is a well known still builder that prescribes a 50 degree entry temp for cooling medium. This bench mark allows their engineers to easily calculate the impact adjustments while providing stable, user friendly input.

[RC Al]

How tall do you want it?

Seen plenty of 750mm 2" shotty pc's around

Anyone think of a longer one built?

[LWTCS]

How tall do you want it?

Seen plenty of 750mm 2" shotty pc's around

Anyone think of a longer one built?

Yeah, another good question.
Dunno?
We need a few more eggheads (no offense intended) around here to help with this stuff.

12, maybe 16" tall? Bill's problem really.

[acfixer69]

Their you go RC AL, just what salty was saying PC's are not deflagamaters if you want a deflag to break it down slow or over a distance do a 4" x 2' with tubes to match vapor speed. Or 3' its undocumented here.

[shadylane]

I think this will be another deep and dead end rabbit whole
Hell that seldom stopped us before
Just for guestimating and head scratching reasons
What might be a good surface area to delta T ratio for said Preferential Dephlegmator
posting with AC

[googe]

Reminded me of many many moons ago i'd thought of that idea so i stuck my shotty straight onto the boiler and a liebig connected to the end. Was a long time ago and cant remember much about it except it took ages to adjust coolent because i was treating it like a dephleg. and the abv was higher. No useful info sorry, just making rabbit hole bigger

[shadylane]

Reminds me of an experiment using a single bow shaped liebig for a product condenser and a variable reflux condenser.
The higher it was raised, the higher the reflux ratio. The damn thing acutely worked.
I might try doing it again without the packed column
Just to see

[The Baker]

How tall do you want it?

Seen plenty of 750mm 2" shotty pc's around

Anyone think of a longer one built?

I've got a product condenser (not yet used) around eight feet long.
Two inch outside, one and a quarter inch inside.
Got it free, it was a cooler for milk before the milk went into the refrigerated vat.

Geoff

[Bushman]

How tall do you want it?

Seen plenty of 750mm 2" shotty pc's around

Anyone think of a longer one built?

I've got a product condenser (not yet used) around eight feet long.
Two inch outside, one and a quarter inch inside.
Got it free, it was a cooler for milk before the milk went into the refrigerated vat.

Geoff

Pictures?

[Corsaire]

So I can't be of help regarding temperature gradient.

But I'll give my 2 cents on the terminology.

In the old days phlegm (in distilling) was used to describe substances you didn't want in your distillate, what we'd call feints now.

You can find drawings of cooling lentils and cooling spheres that had cold water running over them to cool the vapor, and let low bp congeners fall back into the boiler. There's jenever makers in The Netherlands that still use them, you can look for videos on youtube.

In Dutch these are described as dephlegmaters, as they reduced the amount of phlegm. The terminology was used with upgraded still designs that allowed part of the vapor through and condensed another part.

So IMO a dephlegmator is a device, irrelevant of shape or design, that lets vapors pass. You can throttle back the amount of vapor that passes.

A reflux condenser should let nothing pass.

I agree it doesn't roll of the tongue, and phlegm is a hideous word.

Back on the preferential cooling: my take on it is that it happens. But would it work more efficient than stacking a column? I'll gladly let you tinkerers experiment

[tubbsy]

Hang on. Is dephlegmator pronounced "deflemator" in the same way phlegm is pronounced "flem"? I've been pronouncing it with a hard "g", which does make it sound weird. Luckily I've only been saying it to myself.

[Corsaire]

I suppose so, English isn't my native language. I don't think you pronounce the g. In Dutch it is pronounced, in French it isn't.

[LWTCS]

Back on the preferential cooling: my take on it is that it happens. But would it work more efficient than stacking a column? I'll gladly let you tinkerers experiment

Nice input.
If you read the paper in the link I posted, you can further gather that a dephlegmator does indeed count as plate value. The article explains how using a "preseparation" unit can save valuable time and that an otherwise typical column would take longer. The dephlegmator enhances what the column does. So I'd say yes to either.

[Saltbush Bill]

Is dephlegmator pronounced "deflemator" in the same way phlegm is pronounced "flem"? I've been pronouncing it with a hard "g", which does make it sound weird. Luckily I've only been saying it to myself.

I found this if its any help Tubbs
Quote: " Lastly, how do you pronounce dephlegmator without sounding like a nincompoop? It’s easy: duh-fleg-mater."

[Tennessee_Spirits]

Think of a dephlegmator as a means to establish a temperature gradient in the column below it. It is a means of increasing resolution of the column and heat is conducted from it.

I use my hot liquor tank (17 gallons) to hold cooling water and monitor the temperature rise. This is a linear reflection of the heat absorbed. When I use the dephlegmator the heat consumed by the entire process goes up 2-3 times that consumed when it is used as a simple pot still.

Use of packing material increases the heat requirement. Using the same volume of beer (mature mash) the change is dramatic. The heat input as a pot still for me requires 15-20% of 3500 watts while using the dephleg takes 35-50% power.

Reflux rases the resolution of the distillation and greatly increases the energy required. This shows up as increased water for cooling and more gas or electricity to heat the boiler.